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If you set out to make a specific prediction come true, can you claim that it came true and be taken seriously?

last doc night for awhile. i watched The Daniel Project, where a man goes thru the Old & New Testaments pulling out predictions, putting them in an order (no idea where the order came from as they are from differing Bible books), and then showing either how they've come true or how they could come true. now the doc wasn't too extremist, it wasnt too one sided, for the most part it just put the info out there and his personal conclusions.

now heres my problem: many of these predictions that "came true" have been done in order to make the OT predictions come true. can something that was done in order to prove a prediction truly be it coming true? also, how can predictions like "social breakdown, loss of morals, etc" be a proven fact when society has collectively changed every generation and that the crime rate was the same in 2009 as it was in 1968? yet the doc claimed that we an increase in lawlessness.

heres the predictions and the supposed Bible verse for it...i say supposed b/c i havent looked all of these up for myself yet. the doc didnt list verses for all of its predictions which i found to be lazy researching...either theres a Bible prediction or there isnt.

1. Israel will be dispersed. Deut. 28:64-66 and Lev. 26
2. Jews will experience persecution throughout the world. Isaiah 3:24
3. In the last days Jews will return to their homeland. Ez. 37 (they claimed fulfillment in 1948)
4. Jerusalem will become the center of world tension. Zech 12
5. The lost language of Hebrew will be restored to Israel as well as the bringing back of the currency of the shekel. Zephaniah (Did not mention specific reference)
6. In the last days pools of water will appear in the desert. Ez. 45:!2
7. The land of Israel will become fruitful in the sense of produce, trees, etc. Is. 41:18-20
8. Man-made and natural disasters increase. Ez. 36:35, Is. 27:6/35:1
9. Increase in lawlessness, moral, and social breakdown. Mathew 24
10. Christian apostacy, mass spiritual delusion, anti-christ 2 Tim. 3:1-5
11. A great leader to bring peace within a new world order. No scripture given
12. world gvernment, forced financial system, and state-control. Rev. 13:16-18/20:4
13. A peace treaty signed-yet a military coalition attacks Israel. No scripture given
14. Earthquake large enough to split the Mount of Olives. Zech. 14:48, Ez. 47:1-10
15. water will flow from under Jerusalem (fault line). see above references
16. Rebuilding of the Jewish temple 3rd and final time. No scripture given
17. The east gate of the Jerusalem wall sealed until the end. Ez. 44:1-3
18. The kings of the east cross the Euphrates river for a great war. (200,000,000) Ez. 47:1-10, Rev. 9:14-16/16:12-16
19. The great final battle of Armageddon. Rev. 16:16, Mathew 24, Jer. 25:33, Zech 14:12
20. Only the wise and understand and escape (theme of documentary taken from Daniel 12:9)

Answer Question
 
okmanders

Asked by okmanders at 11:24 PM on Dec. 13, 2012 in Religious Debate

Level 42 (152,217 Credits)
Answers (12)
  • Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
    Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
    Maybe Dan. 12:10? Still it I think would be out of context,.
    hadassah1582

    Answer by hadassah1582 at 12:11 AM on Dec. 14, 2012

  • 1-4 are very convicting for me because the Jewish people have been so oppressed and mistreated throughout history. Since Soloman's Temple (my history may be rusty, whether it was this event or another) was destroyed, the Jews have lived scattered throughout the Earth with no country of their own. So in 1948, the Jewish state of Isreal was a really big deal. The other prophecies listed I'm not sure about, but 11-20 haven't happened.

    I think if a prophecy was fulfilled, then it was fulfilled, regardless of how. If it is something vague and simple then maybe it wasn't a prophecy. In relation to Christ, for me, there is enough evidence and fulfillment of prophecy to convince me.
    HHx5

    Answer by HHx5 at 12:16 AM on Dec. 14, 2012

  • take #17 for example. if a Holocaust denier, someone like the Iranian guy...Ahmadinejad (had to look up the spelling haha), decided to take a jackhammer to the east gate, would that keep these predictions from coming true, or would someone just concrete it up again and claim it was forever sealed?
    okmanders

    Comment by okmanders (original poster) at 12:22 AM on Dec. 14, 2012

  • " also, how can predictions like "social breakdown, loss of morals, etc" be a proven fact when society has collectively changed every generation and that the crime rate was the same in 2009 as it was in 1968? yet the doc claimed that we an increase in lawlessness."
    This would have to be looked at through a biblical worldview. It doesn't make much sense if the morality of society is looked at as relative, and if that's the case, then it couldn't be proved.
    HHx5

    Answer by HHx5 at 12:23 AM on Dec. 14, 2012

  • About #17, hmm..., I'm not sure, lol. If he could pull that off and not be shot that would be a miracle in and of itself.
    HHx5

    Answer by HHx5 at 12:26 AM on Dec. 14, 2012

  • I believe every word of the Bible is true; however, I do not believe that all of the things on this list can be known as fulfilled prophecy. There are some prophecies in the Bible that you can read and see a historical event and know for a fact that a historical event is the fulfillment of that particular prophecy. Some prophecies you can begin to see a picture of what God was trying to make known only through piecing together many other prophecies and when pulled apart they seem false. One example of this is the prophecy that predicts a virgin will conceive. I believe Mary was virgin and the Messiah was born through her; however, Hebrew word used here simply means young women. I really hate it when people try to use this verse on its own to prove Jesus was the Messiah. The proof lies with all prophecies put together. When I look to future prophecy I see things all around me that maybe a fulfillment of those things but I r
    hadassah1582

    Answer by hadassah1582 at 12:52 AM on Dec. 14, 2012

  • " also, how can predictions like "social breakdown, loss of morals, etc" be a proven fact when society has collectively changed every generation and that the crime rate was the same in 2009 as it was in 1968? yet the doc claimed that we an increase in lawlessness."
    This would have to be looked at through a biblical worldview. It doesn't make much sense if the morality of society is looked at as relative, and if that's the case, then it couldn't be proved.
    I think that their are plenty of cases in history were their was a more of a loss of morals then now and I am looking at it from a Biblical view. Rely I don't think it is that bad now, we just think it is because we are living in it.
    hadassah1582

    Answer by hadassah1582 at 12:58 AM on Dec. 14, 2012

  • I don't know if I'm understanding your argument properly. Are you saying those predictions came true because someone manipulated a situation so that we would believe they came true? If so, I find that hard to believe. It sounds like a massive historical conspiracy theory and in all honesty, something too difficult to pull off.
    momto2boys973

    Answer by momto2boys973 at 7:48 AM on Dec. 14, 2012

  • Many predictions are based on observation, and aren't "mysterious" in any way.  Many predictions are so vague (like those "insights" that fortune tellers offer) that they could apply to many different situations, but those who WANT to believe the Bible will use them as proof of the inerrant "Word" of God.  They find events to fit the prophecy, even if it requires some twisting, smoke and mirrors.


    Consider this, too:  We have leaders, affiliated with the Christian Right, who have said out loud that they want to bring about the "Apocalypse" by creating policies that drive our society, our government, and our environment to a point of self-destruction.  They believe the "prophecies", and look forward to the day that the earth is destroyed so that what they believe is the future - a new age - will be ushered in, but with a lot of nudging on their part.

    jsbenkert

    Answer by jsbenkert at 8:55 AM on Dec. 14, 2012

  • .Ahmadinejad (had to look up the spelling haha),

    It's easier to just use the short form: I'm a Dinner Jacket

    I find the same issue with all of those "bible code" specials and Nostradamus shows. It's no different than a mediocre psychic for hire who tells you things just vague enough that you fill in the blanks yourself.

    For example, 1-4, that region has ALWAYS been in contention, including at the various times when those books were written. It would be the modern day equivalent of predicting that CA will have earthquakes and there will be disagreement between N and S Korea.
    NotPanicking

    Answer by NotPanicking at 9:03 AM on Dec. 14, 2012

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