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3 Bumps

"Clergy are not doctors"

We were discussing this subject shortly after Savita Halappanavar died in Ireland when her doctors refused to treat her because she was pregnant.  She died of sepsis when the hospital, on religious grounds, refused to remove the fetus that was killing her, and I asked how we can accept this in the name of religion - how can we say that it's okay to deny a woman proper health care because a religious institution thinks the developing fetus is more important.

I recall at least one CM member saying something about how it's not up to us, because this falls under the jurisdiction of Ireland, and is not our problem to judge.

But what if the same things were happening in Catholic hospitals, right here in the United States?  When does it become shameful and morally wrong for people who are not doctors decide that women come second to fetuses?

Here's a story on a few of those "exceptions" that have happened right here in the good ole US of A,  because religious clergy wouldn't allow doctors to do the right thing, allowing religion trump medicine.

 
jsbenkert

Asked by jsbenkert at 8:43 PM on Feb. 9, 2013 in Religious Debate

Level 37 (89,290 Credits)
This question is closed.
Answers (10)
  • When does it become shameful and morally wrong for people who are not doctors decide that women come second to fetuses?

    It already is shameful and morally wrong.

    This case is also stupid and insane because both the mother and the fetus died. Dead mother, dead baby, dead loss all around. How does that make sense? Oh right, it doesn't. If it would have saved the fetus to keep it inside the mother, then it ought to have been left up to the mother to decide. But nobody benefitted from leaving the fetus in the mother till they were both gone.
    Ballad

    Answer by Ballad at 12:45 AM on Feb. 10, 2013

  • My husband was raised in Christian Science. He's athiest now but still held on to that no medicine thing...and it's something I really struggle with.

    Religion and science do not mix and should not mix.
    FreeForAll

    Answer by FreeForAll at 9:17 PM on Feb. 9, 2013

  • Its total stupidity any way you look at it (and Im christian!). One, God does not weigh the value of the fetuses soul above thr soul of themother...He does not say one is more important than the other and two, how does losing two people make sense to anyone? Thebaby they are trying to protect STILL DIES!!!!! HOW THE HELL DOES THATMAKE SENSE????
    Nimue930

    Answer by Nimue930 at 9:14 PM on Feb. 9, 2013

  • A dr takes an oath to help and care for their patients in an ethical manner. Any dr who listens to religious nuts over their sworn oath should be stripped of their license. Religion need to get the fuck out of where it does not belong.
    sahmamax2

    Answer by sahmamax2 at 8:35 AM on Feb. 10, 2013

  • BTW... Interestingly enough, the original Hippocratic oath as well as the original Declaration of Geneva made a physician swear he would never give an abortion...
    The current Declaration of Geneva does say "I WILL PRACTICE my profession with conscience and dignity", which means a physician just always act according to his conscience.
    momto2boys973

    Answer by momto2boys973 at 10:15 AM on Feb. 10, 2013

  • IMHO, any religion that forces you to die by denying medical care needs to be reevaluated. I know it's difficult to put deep personal beliefs under the microscope but if my religion denied me the benefits of medicine to protect the gift I was given- my life, I wouldn't be able to honestly believe it's true.
    momto2boys973

    Answer by momto2boys973 at 11:13 PM on Feb. 9, 2013

  • "A dr takes an oath to help and care for their patients in an ethical manner. Any dr who listens to religious nuts over their sworn oath should be stripped of their license. Religion need to get the fuck out of where it does not belong."

    Doctors are also human beings with religious beliefs and a right to act on those beliefs. You can't tell all Catholics that they're not allowed to go to medical school if they have moral objections to certain medical practices. If a doctor is honest and upfront about his/her limitations and is willing to offer a referral, why should they be forced to act against their morals?
    By that logic ANY doctor with moral objections to ANY procedure- not only those based on religious beliefs- should be stripped of his license.
    momto2boys973

    Answer by momto2boys973 at 10:08 AM on Feb. 10, 2013

  • I don't feel the story of Savita Halappanavar was reported correctly. She died of sepsis and delivering the baby wouldn't necessarily have helped her in anyway.  I don't know what was involved in her care but I don't think the news reporting was accurate because it didn't allow anytime to investigate what actually happened and what medical intervention might actually would have helped her.  I also feel this link is extremely biased so I don't know what is factual.


    I do think the life of the mother should come first, and it should be up to the family to be involved in medical decisions.  like most hospitals Catholic hospitals have ethic committees that are made up of an interdisciplinary care teams, and not everyone involved in this team will necessarly be Catholic. 

    RyansMom001

    Answer by RyansMom001 at 4:38 AM on Feb. 10, 2013

  • Sorry, forgot to add that having said that, I do believe that no person should be forced to do anything against his/her conscience, that is, a doctor shouldn't be forced to provide a treatment he believes it's wrong. My OB is very Catholic and he wouldn't perform an elective abortion (don't know if he would perform a medically indicated one, though, I haven't asked) and he would refer those who want one to another doctor.
    I agree you can't force your beliefs on others, but we can also force others to act against their beliefs.
    momto2boys973

    Answer by momto2boys973 at 11:18 PM on Feb. 9, 2013

  • Thank you for the fact check, Dardenella. There is no evidence that it was the pregnancy that caused the sepsis. That can come from a UTI or other illness. By the time she was septic, she was most likely not stable enough to survive an attempt at labor or a surgery. The goal would have been to stabilize her.

    I agree that this story was reported in a sensationalized manner with a specific agenda in mind. It is a tragedy, and I think it's shameful that the pro-abortion side is using this to push for a change in Ireland's laws.
    Iamgr8teful

    Answer by Iamgr8teful at 11:05 PM on Feb. 12, 2013