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Let us visit free will again, shall we?

I saw the following as a reply on another forum and loved it:

Jesus said at the last supper that Peter would deny him three times before the cock crowed. Did Peter have a choice if Jesus was a God capable of seeing the future? If he was a God he saw it so therefore it had to happen. Peter had no freewill.

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IhartU

Asked by IhartU at 9:15 AM on Dec. 5, 2013 in Religious Debate

Level 27 (31,412 Credits)
Answers (9)
  • I don't see how God knowing what Peter was going to do precludes him (Peter) from having free will. He had a choice, God just knew what his choice(s) would be.
    missanc

    Answer by missanc at 10:27 AM on Dec. 5, 2013

  • How is doing something you're predestined to do 'free will'? Wouldn't that be an illusion then? Like you think you're making a choice but since whatever you do can't change the outcome because it's set in stone, you're really doing nothing of the sort?
    IhartU

    Comment by IhartU (original poster) at 10:33 AM on Dec. 5, 2013

  • Just because you know something does not mean you are controlling it. Have you never known something was going to happen?
    Did you make it happen or did you just know it?
    God is more than we are and he can see it all, past, present and future.
    It dies not change the fact that we have a choice and we make it. It is ours and no one else's.

    If you put a plate of cookies on the table you know that your 2 or 3 year old (and older) is going to take one. You know your hubby who should not will take one. You know that you who should not eat them will take one. But did you make the decision for them? Did you make the choice?
    If I offer my DGS chocolate or vanilla ice cream am I I forcing his decision if I know what he will choose, even if it is not to have either one?
    Dardenella

    Answer by Dardenella at 12:21 PM on Dec. 5, 2013

  • The argument only works if you believe it represents actual history, instead of theology/narrative, though.
    bandgeek521

    Answer by bandgeek521 at 1:00 PM on Dec. 5, 2013

  • Ugh I think this is a big problem with those who can not except that the bible shows god manipulating humans. I'll give the example of Saul god placing an distressing spirit on him. Therefore does that not affect choices he may have made if he were not in such a messed up situation? Need another one? Pharaoh, got hardened his heart therefore changing choices again that pharaoh may have made different. Maybe he would have let Moses go sooner? Maybe not we will never know his true choice IMO.
    skinnyslokita

    Answer by skinnyslokita at 1:09 PM on Dec. 5, 2013

  • One explanation could be that if God is truly God (i.e. the Creator God), then He also created time itself. So, if that is true, then God foresaw our choices. I believe Jesus is the second person of the Triune God which means He'd have to have always existed, just like the Father. Peter's actions were Peter's choice. I believe that God created all of us and having created us, knows our minds, our strengths, our weaknesses, and plans accordingly. I believe God has a purpose in everything and since we're only human, we have very limited sight or understanding of God's plan, whereas He sees the beginning, middle, and end all at once and always does/has.
    HHx5

    Answer by HHx5 at 1:36 PM on Dec. 5, 2013

  • Dardenella- TRUE free will changes outcomes and since 'god' has the outcome already in place and your 'choices' mean nothing and you can't change a damn thing in the end, it is NOT true free will- it's the illusion of free will.
    IhartU

    Comment by IhartU (original poster) at 3:29 PM on Dec. 5, 2013

  • God knows everything that is going to happen. He's omniscient. That doesn't have anything to do with you having free will. Omniscience is what he has, free will is what you have. God doesn't have the outcome, he knows the outcome
    snookyfritz

    Answer by snookyfritz at 11:47 PM on Dec. 7, 2013

  • The bible speaks of sin by birth, and that one cannot get to heaven by their works.
    If you sin, why do you sin?
    If you answer that you can't help it, that you're not perfect and were born a sinner according to your bible, then there is no reasoning free will into this.
    The bible negates the libertarian free will that is believed to be exercised in the christian theology.
    Omniscience destroys free will, too.
    one cannot rewrite the script the omniscient god has authored without the god knowing about it, and being the author of it.


    boojaa

    Answer by boojaa at 4:17 PM on Dec. 15, 2013

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