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Are there any Christians here who

don't believe that salvation is an offer you have to accept from Christ in order to go to Heaven? Ephesians says:



1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;



This doctrine is tied to that of free election and sovereign grace. I want to build a group for those who have this belief or want to know more about it. I'm not trying to change anyone's beliefs. Please only respond if this sound intriguing or if it's what you believe.

Answer Question
 
callmeann

Asked by callmeann at 4:05 PM on Mar. 27, 2009 in Religion & Beliefs

Level 5 (67 Credits)
Answers (15)
  • Do you believe in Jesus? If you believe in predestination, then why did Jesus come?
    Anonymous

    Answer by Anonymous at 4:08 PM on Mar. 27, 2009

  • it is not certain PEOPLE whom he chose but the number of those who would rule with Christ, our salvation is not a "Once saved always saved" thing. James admonishes: “Become doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves with false reasoning.” (James 1:22) Many deceive themselves with the doctrine of ‘once saved always saved,’ as though they may now retire and wait for a supposed heavenly reward. It is a false doctrine and an empty hope. “He that has endured to the end,” Jesus said, “is the one that will be saved.” (Matthew 24:13) To gain everlasting life, we must “prove yourself faithful even to death.”—Revelation 2:10; Hebrews 6:4-6; 10:26, 27.
    lisarose45

    Answer by lisarose45 at 4:23 PM on Mar. 27, 2009

  • Anonymous,
    Jesus came to die on the cross in atonement for the sins of the elect. God's justice had to be satisfied after the sin in Eden. Everyone on Earth was doomed in Adam by that disobedience but God sent His son in love for those whom he foreknew and predestinated to justify and glorify them so they could be redeemed.
    If you want to learn more, and a group forms, I would love to have you join. I do not want the group to become a debate forum between those who believe in resistible grace and those who believe God's grace is free and without requirement from a people who can not desire eternal life due to their fallen state before regeneration. There are lots of groups for those denominations and only one for this interpretation. I want to try to have a group with a different feel, but of the same doctrine.
    callmeann

    Answer by callmeann at 4:58 PM on Mar. 27, 2009

  • lisarose,
    I understand that this is not your belief. I asked that this question only be answered by those who would be interested in joining this group if I made it, based on existing beliefs or interest in learning more about it.
    Thanks anyway.
    callmeann

    Answer by callmeann at 5:00 PM on Mar. 27, 2009

  • I would join. I agree with you.
    nsrush83

    Answer by nsrush83 at 5:09 PM on Mar. 27, 2009

  • who do you consider the elect to be?
    My bible says Jesus came for the WORLD!
    Shaneagle777

    Answer by Shaneagle777 at 5:17 PM on Mar. 27, 2009

  • Hi, nrush, we were in the old group together. I could probably use the help if you know about making a group. I've never done it. I really hated that there was such a limited space in the question pane. These verses from Ephesians are just the tip of the iceberg, as you know.
    callmeann

    Answer by callmeann at 5:27 PM on Mar. 27, 2009

  • Shaneagle, That's why this doctrine is also called sovereign grace. We believe that God chose a people according to His own sovereign will and not according to any worthiness on the part of the person. We believe it is clear in the scriptures that not everyone will be in Heaven, and since Jesus came to save His (God's)people, we believe that the bible is only written to the elect. (Don't worry, I have scriptures to cite but I ran over the character limit. Please read on....)

    callmeann

    Answer by callmeann at 5:52 PM on Mar. 27, 2009

  • Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


    Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


    Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


    callmeann

    Answer by callmeann at 5:58 PM on Mar. 27, 2009

  • (cont. from abovve) And just in case it appears that this means that God makes the overture in order for you to be made able to understand and then you can reject him and choose death, remember that John 6:37 says that "...all that the Father giveth me shall come to me...." It's obvious that not everyone who reads the bible loves God, so unless He calls them later, it has no use for them. (remember the above verses in Romans) Therefore, we believe that the bible is not written to anyone who can not come because obviously, it has no value to anyone not given to Christ by the Father.


    There is so much more in the scriptures regarding God choosing a people and regeneration coming before belief.  I had to keep this short but rest assured, I know that six verses do not a doctrine prove.

    callmeann

    Answer by callmeann at 6:20 PM on Mar. 27, 2009

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