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If murder is murder... hate crimes bill question

Then why do we currently punish different crimes of murder at different degrees as well as under different titles? You can be tried for manslaughter in different degrees, as well as murder in different degrees. If killing a human being is ALL the same, then why does the legal system notice and accept the differences? (These differences, BTW, are already based on motive or lack thereof. So an argument against the hate crimes bill that murder is murder is completely invalid.)

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Jafra_mommy

Asked by Jafra_mommy at 1:13 PM on Oct. 24, 2009 in Politics & Current Events

Level 1 (0 Credits)
Answers (40)
  • I dont think killing a human being is the same in every case. Killing someone just because you feel like it is different than killing someone because you are defending yourself. Just like if you get in a car accident and kill someone I think thats different than killing someone because, say, you are jealous of them. I guess Im with you.. murder is murder is invalid.
    Anonymous

    Answer by Anonymous at 1:17 PM on Oct. 24, 2009

  • Regardless of the motive, there is still a dead victim. The reason why the legal system recognizes the alleged difference is because of all the special interest groups screaming. The squeaky wheel gets the oil, you know. I had a friend who was shot and killed by her abusive ex-boyfriend after being stalked by him for 2 weeks. Do you think he killed her because he loved her?
    Bethsunshine

    Answer by Bethsunshine at 1:30 PM on Oct. 24, 2009

  • The reason why the legal system recognizes the alleged difference is because of all the special interest groups screaming. The squeaky wheel gets the oil, you know


    I agree with this statement.  Our government is more about the special interest groups and less about ALL PEOPLE.

    grlygrlz2

    Answer by grlygrlz2 at 1:31 PM on Oct. 24, 2009

  • So, lets say that someone killed their spouse when they walked in on them cheating with someone else. Not premeditated, and depending on the state they would be tried for first degree manslaughter OR second degree murder. Do you think that person should be punished at the same level as someone who found a victim, planned out the murder, chopped them up into little pieces, then hid the body? (Thanks Dexter.)

    As for your friend beth, I have no idea why he killed your friend. Clearly, if he was capable of committing such a horrible crime, his brain doesn't function on the same level as mine or yours. It's very possible he did kill her because he loved her in some sort of screwed up or twisted way.
    Jafra_mommy

    Answer by Jafra_mommy at 1:36 PM on Oct. 24, 2009

  • Well said OP!!!!!
    older

    Answer by older at 1:40 PM on Oct. 24, 2009

  • The different degrees and charges have nothing to do with the victim. They are about the act itself. "Hate crimes" make it about the victim. If the victim is the wrong color or religion, it's a hate crime, where an identical crime with a different victim is not a hate crime. You're trying to compare apples and oranges. Throw a knife at the wall near someone and hit them (you had reasonable knowledge it might hit them and did it anyway) vs throw a knife at someone (you wanted it to hit them), not throw a knife at someone a different race vs throw a knife at someone the same race.
    NotPanicking

    Answer by NotPanicking at 1:43 PM on Oct. 24, 2009

  • I'm simply making the point that murder is not murder, there are differences in the type of murder one commits. It's not apples and oranges, its simply showing that our law already accepts that there are different types of murder, so this excuse that "murder is murder" is NOT valid.
    Jafra_mommy

    Answer by Jafra_mommy at 1:44 PM on Oct. 24, 2009

  • Exactly, thank you. What really mystifies me about this is that people seem to understand why more charges/harsher punishments need to be handed out based on some motivations like sex crimes or sex crimes against minors, but when it comes to crimes motivated by sexuality, race, or religion they think these criminals shouldn't be treated any differently than any other criminal.
    annabellelee

    Answer by annabellelee at 1:48 PM on Oct. 24, 2009

  • "murder is murder" is NOT valid.

    No, it is. If you throw a knife at someone it is murder. It doesn't matter who that someone is. If you hide in their closet and stab them when they open the door it's 1st degree, while if they catch you robbing their house and you stab them it's 2nd degree. It has nothing to do with who opens the door or walks in the room. You're trying to use the levels of intent to expand to the personal characteristics of the victim, in essence saying if you hide in the closet and kill a black person it's a worse crime than hiding in the closet and killing a white person. That's not how it works.
    NotPanicking

    Answer by NotPanicking at 1:52 PM on Oct. 24, 2009

  • I know how it works. But if all murder was the same, then why do we have first degree murder, second degree murder, first degree manslaughter, etc? If killing someone is killing someone, then why do we punish them differently? I mean... your point is it IS all the same. My point is that its not.
    Jafra_mommy

    Answer by Jafra_mommy at 1:54 PM on Oct. 24, 2009

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