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Jehovah Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists, or any other "Christian" religion that says the dead are not concious of anything....

See in Hebrews 12:23, Paul speaks about the spirits of righteous men being made perfect, the righteous men and prophets of the Old Testament. The spirits of righteous men are made perfect by Jesus Christ. If our spirits cease to exist, or are conscious of nothing, then how can they be made perfect by their faith in Jesus Christ? Also note where this scripture says the spirits of the righteous men made perfect are....in heaven.
So again, my question is: If our spirits cease to exist (as JW's believe), or if they exist but are concious of nothing (Like SDAs believe), then how can the spirits of righteous men be made perfect? Note: Life after death.

Hebrews 12:23
to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,

Answer Question
 
m2KnL

Asked by m2KnL at 4:29 PM on Apr. 19, 2010 in Religion & Beliefs

Level 1 (0 Credits)
Answers (59)
  • 2 Corinthians 5: 6-8 Pauls states that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord and vice-versa and so tho you may be spiritually dead in your faith your soul is not dead and is either present here on Earth or in the kingdom of Heaven. So, anything to the contrary has no value or merit.
    GMMOLLY

    Answer by GMMOLLY at 4:40 PM on Apr. 19, 2010

  • So, GMMOLLY, do I understand you right in that you do believe our spirits live in Heaven, after we die, but that you don't believe in hell? I would like to help show others, from the Bible, that our spirits do live after death. This is a post more about Christians who die and go to Heaven, and did not really plan on discussing hell in this post. But I'm glad to hear that you believe our spirits live after death. Excellent scripture you gave to show those in Christ live after death.
    m2KnL

    Answer by m2KnL at 5:14 PM on Apr. 19, 2010

  • man,
    you just dont quit, do you? Quoting scripture again... Im not trying to offend you, but the reality is no one outside of your religion cares. You dont seem to have genuine, but rather arguing topics. What is the point? If you are trying to "witness" to others, trust me, this is NOT the way Christ Jesus encourages his followers to do so.

    I think you'd do well in the journal section or even in a group, but in this forum you strike me as an instigator. Good luck to you.
    sugahmamma

    Answer by sugahmamma at 5:35 PM on Apr. 19, 2010

  • This is a bible teaching - Ecclesiastes 9:5 The dead are unconcious

    Jesus will come to earth and ressurrect people. If our soul is in heaven, then who will he be ressurrecting? That is contradicting. But wait, some people claim its to resurrect our bodies. Well, if we are in heaven, why do we need a fleshly body? So Im just trying to point out that we dont have an ghost like, rising soul or spirit that rises to heaven. Its just reasonable understanding.

    The bible includes the words spirits and souls. So you have to ask yourself the true definition. Have you tried researching them in Greek or Hebrew?

    3gigglemonsters

    Answer by 3gigglemonsters at 5:39 PM on Apr. 19, 2010

  • 3gigglemonsters, You do not think that it is important that our bodies should be redeemed? Also, those who have studied Greek and Hebrew, even those people can misunderstand the scriptures. Now, as for my original question, can you explain what Hebrews 12:23 means? Since you don't believe our spirits exist after we die.
    m2KnL

    Answer by m2KnL at 5:51 PM on Apr. 19, 2010

  • I will be honest. I cannot explaint your scriptures, but only at the moment. I can research it however. But I need time. One more thing, our bodies can still be redeemed, not necessarily by only going to heaven. Our bodies will be perfected on a paradise earth.
    3gigglemonsters

    Answer by 3gigglemonsters at 5:54 PM on Apr. 19, 2010

  • I believe our spirits live after we die. I believe they are concious, and can talk, etc. I believe Hebrews 12:23 is proof of the life of the spirit. I hope we can talk more about this and discuss it more together.
    m2KnL

    Answer by m2KnL at 5:58 PM on Apr. 19, 2010

  • 2 covenants are spoken of at Hebrews12:18-24, the Physical Covenant that Moses was the Mediator for and the Spiritual one that Jesus mediated, those before Jesus are do not go to heaven but will be resurrected to everlasting life here on earth, Jesus said regarding John the Baptizer that “the least in the kingdom of Heaven is greater than he.” (Matthew 11:11, The New English Bible)

    CONT.....
    lisarose45

    Answer by lisarose45 at 5:58 PM on Apr. 19, 2010

  • they are asleep in death awaiting the resurrection that takes place during Christs 1000 year reign, Jesus gave us the Resurrection hope as our only way out of death that came because of sin. If we really have immortal souls then what need is there for a resurrection to life? The dead are shown to be “conscious of nothing at all” and the death state to be one of complete inactivity. (Ec 9:5, 10; Ps 146:4) Those dying are described as going into “the dust of death” (Ps 22:15), becoming “impotent in death.” (Pr 2:18; Isa 26:14) In death there is no mention of God or any praising of him. (Ps 6:5; Isa 38:18, 19)

    CONT....
    lisarose45

    Answer by lisarose45 at 6:07 PM on Apr. 19, 2010

  • In both the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures, death is likened to sleep, a fitting comparison not only because of the unconscious condition of the dead but also because of the hope of an awakening through the resurrection. (Ps 13:3; Joh 11:11-14) The resurrected Jesus is spoken of as “the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death.”—1Co 15:20, 21;

    CONT.......
    lisarose45

    Answer by lisarose45 at 6:08 PM on Apr. 19, 2010

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