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Spin off of a question about "quiverfull" something.

Ok, bear with me.

The idea is that children are a blessing from God and that God decides the birth of all children (thereby doing the "family planning"). So how is that people who don't believe in God have children? If children are all planned by God and given as blessings and rewards, (sons are a reward, it's in Psalms or Proverbs)

do you believe that God (or your deity) is directly involved in the creation of children? Does he (or she, depending on what you believe) take time out of his (or her) day to give an individual child to an individual couple regardless of their beliefs?

What about the fact that the sex act itself is a sin outside of marriage? Does God then in his infinite wisdom reward an act that is sin with a child(who is a reward or a blessing depending on the sex), with a child that is chosen to be given to that particular parent?

And what about the verse that tells the parent to provoke a child to wrath? Doesn't forcing a young child into part of the parenting team give them just cause for wrath?

Answer Question
 
lovinangels

Asked by lovinangels at 8:41 PM on Jan. 1, 2011 in Religious Debate

Level 39 (112,638 Credits)
Answers (35)
  • God made men and women able to reproduce. He then gives us the choice how and when to reproduce. I don't understand why you think God would limit children to only His children? Should He then limit everything He created to only His children? He loves each person, whether or not they follow Him. God gives us the freedom of choice and if we then chooose to have sex outside of marriage and have children because of it, we deal with the consequences of that.
    Laura2U

    Answer by Laura2U at 8:53 PM on Jan. 1, 2011

  • It's a spin off question about God doing your family planning...combining that with knowledge of the Bible, if God really does people's family planning, and then says that "Children are a gift and sons are a reward"- isn't He then, logically, rewarding sin?
    lovinangels

    Comment by lovinangels (original poster) at 9:02 PM on Jan. 1, 2011

  • Well I suppose I shouldn't answer then because I don't follow the quiverfull movement. :) I believe that children are a blessing, no matter how they come, but they're also a bi-product of unprotected sex. They're a consequence of an action. God created each child, but I don't think they're always a "reward" of something.

    And boy, do I sound cold and heartless, lol.
    Laura2U

    Answer by Laura2U at 9:13 PM on Jan. 1, 2011

  • Very interesting take on God and children- I have always believed that my children are a gift from God- I never thought about those that do not believe and all the other things you bring up. I guess I am pretty simplistic in thought- ;)
    As far as the quiverfull movement- I am not so sure about it and if it really is as God intended- I believe our cycles are predictable for a reason- I also believe that we are able to abstain so that in the end, we really are in control (for the most part) of how many children we have. I believe that to have 18 or 20 kids, you are REALLY trying to have kids- you are not leaving it up to God- you are working your butt off trying to get pregnant as many times as possible. JMO
    soyousay

    Answer by soyousay at 9:16 PM on Jan. 1, 2011

  • no, not rewarding sin..if 'unwanted/unplanned' children were a reward, we wouldn't have so many children left as orphans, or without mamas or daddys. children are brought about by a physical act, period. what one does with that 'consequence' is up to the person who births it (and, hopefully, the person who 'helped').
    in other words, for every action, there is a reaction. in this case, the reaction is pregnancy..whether its considered a blessing by God, or just a consequence of sex.
    IMO, God gave humans brains (!) and knowledge. we know how things happen..where some fall short is they aren't ready to deal with the outcome, or its an inconvenience, or simply cannot, for whatever reason. call it 'free will', call it 'happenstance'. either way, i don't see it as God rewarding something that is considered sin (adultery, pre-marital, etc.). i see it as God stepping back, and letting the us learn how to deal with our actions.
    dullscissors

    Answer by dullscissors at 9:16 PM on Jan. 1, 2011

  • A couple of important concepts need to be understood first.

    1. We are made in the image and likeness of God. God is active in the gift of life for every person because we, due to this image and likeness, are given a soul the moment we are conceived. We cooperate with God in the sexual act within a loving marriage. God is the sustainer of life as well. Without him willing us into existance at all times (what we would experience as time that is) we would cease to exist. God does not make 'mistakes' with people. He wills us all.

    2. God does not 'take time out of his busy day.' It would seem like an impossible role that God had if He had to plan exactly where every person would be born etc. God however exists in the eternal 'now.' We have a hard time understanding this as we are temporal beings (subject to time and space) . God is not a temporal being and is therefore outside of time. Time is actually a function of physics...
    tobys.mommy

    Answer by tobys.mommy at 9:18 PM on Jan. 1, 2011

  • soyousay, I could easily have 19-20 kids in 20 years without trying!! I got pregnant with my third while using two kinds of protection. Some people are extremely fertile and some men have strong swimmers. :) Not every woman with that many kids really try hard to have that many. But if they don't do anything to stop it, then it could happen. That's like saying that couples who don't have any kids are trying really hard not to have kids. Not true.
    Laura2U

    Answer by Laura2U at 9:22 PM on Jan. 1, 2011

  • ...and there was a time at which there was no time. God has never been 'in time' except when He came down to dwell with us as our Lord Jesus Christ.

    3. There is a reference to children being a blessing and reward and this was a pretty typical view within Jewish history. Infact, if you were barren it was seen that you were cursed. Hence the shame of Sarah, Elizabeth and many other women in the scriptures. When we interpret scripture it is important to take verses within context and compare them to the whole of scripture so as not to read the meaning into them or take too narrow of a view of specific verses.

    4. God has the ability to bring good out of our mistakes. Sex outside of marriage is a moral wrong, but God in his love for us, especially love for the new soul that is being brought into the world, literally loves a person into existence.

    tobys.mommy

    Answer by tobys.mommy at 9:25 PM on Jan. 1, 2011

  • God is not a temporal being and is therefore outside of time. Time is actually a function of physics...
    ____________________
    I'm aware of what I like to call the "fishbowl theory." Broken down, it's fairly simple, we exist in time, which is similar, in God's eyes, to a fishbowl, he exists outside of it, created it (as we would a fish tank) and then watches us from out side of it. It would be difficult for fish to conceive of life outside of water, and similarly, it's pretty difficult for us to conceive of life outside of time.

    This idea, like so much in Christianity, is created by taking a verse here and a verse there throughout the Bible, and slapping them together to prove a point. However, the Bible was not broken in verses when it was written... None of the books were. That was done very, very long after. Isaiah was not intended to be paired with Matthew and topped off with Genesis.
    lovinangels

    Comment by lovinangels (original poster) at 9:25 PM on Jan. 1, 2011

  • OP- That is exactly my point. Take verses peicemeal is not the proper way to interpret scripture, many factors including context, literary types, oringinal languages etc. need to be considered when reading scripture.

    The idea of God being outside time was not constructed that way. My guess (I'm not 100 percent sure of this) is that it predates even the written scriptures through the oral tradition of the Jewish people.

    St. Thomas Aquinas however systematized this thinking in his masterpiece the Summa Theologica (which came much much later than that). It was already established that God was outside of time and space well before the dawn of Christianity.
    tobys.mommy

    Answer by tobys.mommy at 9:35 PM on Jan. 1, 2011

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