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What are your thoughts on....

Posted by on May. 28, 2012 at 8:42 PM
  • 14 Replies

Tenure for teachers? Do you agree or disagree? and why?

just curious....

by on May. 28, 2012 at 8:42 PM
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Replies (1-10):
Wyldbutterfly
by Snow Bunny on May. 29, 2012 at 5:02 AM
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Tenure for teachers who have shown repeatedly that they are GREAT teachers, yes!

Others, no not so much. Tenure is not something that should just be given. It should be earned, and I mean truly earned.

Tenure is part the reason we have teachers who don't or can't teach our children. Tenure has protected far too many lousy teachers who don't deserve to have the title teacher.

Bethy16
by Beth on May. 29, 2012 at 5:04 AM
I couldnt have said it better. It should be earned and also be able to be taken away. Some teachers once they get it stop being good teachers,that has to stop too.


Quoting Wyldbutterfly:

Tenure for teachers who have shown repeatedly that they are GREAT teachers, yes!

Others, no not so much. Tenure is not something that should just be given. It should be earned, and I mean truly earned.

Tenure is part the reason we have teachers who don't or can't teach our children. Tenure has protected far too many lousy teachers who don't deserve to have the title teacher.


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Jillysmom
by Adele on May. 29, 2012 at 6:14 AM

 totally agree

Quoting Bethy16:

I couldnt have said it better. It should be earned and also be able to be taken away. Some teachers once they get it stop being good teachers,that has to stop too.


Quoting Wyldbutterfly:

Tenure for teachers who have shown repeatedly that they are GREAT teachers, yes!

Others, no not so much. Tenure is not something that should just be given. It should be earned, and I mean truly earned.

Tenure is part the reason we have teachers who don't or can't teach our children. Tenure has protected far too many lousy teachers who don't deserve to have the title teacher.


 

Kmary
by Bronze Member on May. 29, 2012 at 6:22 AM

Disclaimer:  I'm a public school teacher.

Most people don't understand what tenure provides:  due process if an issue comes up. And that is the ONLY thing it provides.   Before I was tenured if a student had said that I did something inappropriate, I would have been fired with no question asked and no investigation at all.  It does not guarantee a job to a bad teacher.  It does not make it impossible to fire a bad teacher.  it does not increase the possibility of bad teachers (nothing can do that...there has always been and will alwyas be bad people in every single field of work on earth).  There are a number of reasons why schools don't go to the trouble of removing bad teachers, but tenure is not in their way if they have documented proof.  Tenured teachers can and do get both fired and laid off.  Very common misconception that just won't die.

SamMom912
by Platinum Member on May. 29, 2012 at 7:29 AM
Quoting Kmary:

Disclaimer:  I'm a public school teacher.

Most people don't understand what tenure provides:  due process if an issue comes up. And that is the ONLY thing it provides.   Before I was tenured if a student had said that I did something inappropriate, I would have been fired with no question asked and no investigation at all.  It does not guarantee a job to a bad teacher.  It does not make it impossible to fire a bad teacher.  it does not increase the possibility of bad teachers (nothing can do that...there has always been and will alwyas be bad people in every single field of work on earth).  There are a number of reasons why schools don't go to the trouble of removing bad teachers, but tenure is not in their way if they have documented proof.  Tenured teachers can and do get both fired and laid off.  Very common misconception that just won't die.





It does make it extremely costly to remove bad teachers..... Tenured teachers rarely... I think i read 3 a year get fired... Of a cost to more then 50k per removal.
I do feel there needs to be some sort of due process, but, tenure for any position breeds complacency which can not be tolerated. Im not against some form of protection for teachers, sadly it is necessary.. But not at the expense of education...and we do have too many bad teachers with no easy way to remove them.
I have a lot of respect for good teachers....
Kmary
by Bronze Member on May. 29, 2012 at 7:55 AM

I should add that I am very much for reform of tenure and I have a number of ideas on how to do that.  It's certainly not a perfect system.  However, I do have to disagree with the generally accepted assumption that there are "a lot" of bad or complacent teachers out there.  I think they are far fewer than you think, but like any stereotype, they are simply more visible and memorable to us.  I'm a product of NYS public schools and before having my children, an employee of them for several years.  I've worked with and been a student of MANY teachers in this state and the vast majority were wonderful.  Literally only a few in my entire K-12 and teaching career come to mind that were poor teachers, 2 of which were actually fired for that very reason! 

Honestly, I think the crappy ones just stick out in our minds and memories more.  Teachers aren't saints, but it's important to remember that most of them (espeically ones at the secondary level) could be doing something in their field earning much more money, but they CHOSE to teach.  For example, I'm a Spanish teacher and could have easily become a certified translator instead and instantly made 3 times my salary, but I wanted to educate.  I'm not a perfect teacher, but I work hard at it, even several years after starting my career.  And I don't think I'm all that unique to the profession.

Quoting SamMom912:

Quoting Kmary:

Disclaimer:  I'm a public school teacher.

Most people don't understand what tenure provides:  due process if an issue comes up. And that is the ONLY thing it provides.   Before I was tenured if a student had said that I did something inappropriate, I would have been fired with no question asked and no investigation at all.  It does not guarantee a job to a bad teacher.  It does not make it impossible to fire a bad teacher.  it does not increase the possibility of bad teachers (nothing can do that...there has always been and will alwyas be bad people in every single field of work on earth).  There are a number of reasons why schools don't go to the trouble of removing bad teachers, but tenure is not in their way if they have documented proof.  Tenured teachers can and do get both fired and laid off.  Very common misconception that just won't die.





It does make it extremely costly to remove bad teachers..... Tenured teachers rarely... I think i read 3 a year get fired... Of a cost to more then 50k per removal.
I do feel there needs to be some sort of due process, but, tenure for any position breeds complacency which can not be tolerated. Im not against some form of protection for teachers, sadly it is necessary.. But not at the expense of education...and we do have too many bad teachers with no easy way to remove them.
I have a lot of respect for good teachers....


SamMom912
by Platinum Member on May. 29, 2012 at 8:25 AM
Lots of my friends and relatives are teachers...so i guess i hear from them about how disappointed they are in some of their colleagues. Pair that with, yes, the handful of bad memories i have of 7th grade science amd 1oth grade math and you're right...maybe i assume there are more bad ones then there really are. I too am a nys educated (public school and SUNY for undergrad but not my Masters) and i think we DO have some great teachers! But i am really concerned about education, our services, our potentially cutting kindergarten and feel the system is antiquated...
Id love to chat about "changes" as i love discussions like that!
I certainly mean no diseespect in bringing up the topic.
nsanti
by New Member on May. 29, 2012 at 9:24 AM

I don't like tenure, only because you can't have it for some and not others. You've got some really crappy teachers, who know they can't be fired and don't care, "because they have tenure"---not cool.

Mom2jngnc
by Stephannie on May. 29, 2012 at 10:09 AM

 I agree 100%.

Quoting Bethy16

I couldnt have said it better. It should be earned and also be able to be taken away. Some teachers once they get it stop being good teachers,that has to stop too.


Quoting Wyldbutterfly:

Tenure for teachers who have shown repeatedly that they are GREAT teachers, yes!

Others, no not so much. Tenure is not something that should just be given. It should be earned, and I mean truly earned.

Tenure is part the reason we have teachers who don't or can't teach our children. Tenure has protected far too many lousy teachers who don't deserve to have the title teacher.


 

Stephannie, wife to John, Mom to John, Garrett, CJ and Alex
full-time Auntie to Carly-Ann

 
New York Moms
Join us on The New York Moms Group! - - NY Moms Group Mod

powow65
by Kim on May. 29, 2012 at 10:12 AM
what?
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