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An interesting read!

Posted by on Mar. 11, 2016 at 4:12 AM
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by on Mar. 11, 2016 at 4:12 AM
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Replies (1-10):
michiganmom116
by Rhonda on Mar. 11, 2016 at 7:01 AM

I wouldn't go so far as to condemn fruit, but I agree that drs. should recommend more VEGGIES and leave off recommending fruits.  Many people, when told to eat more fruits and veggies, prefer to take the "easy" way out and end up consuming far more fruit than they should.  You and I know that non-starchy veggies are considered a "free" food, but fruit is not.  In my eyes, that makes them a whole different food group.

I agree that drs. are not as knowledgeable about diet as many people assume.  I have found that many dietitians are not as knowledgeable, either.  They keep following 60 yr old advice based on faulty studies that has only created two generations of metabolically ill people.

So....where do we go for dietary advice?  Who should we trust?  Who do we blame for the faulty advice and ignorance?

bluerooffarm
by Silver Member on Mar. 11, 2016 at 8:27 AM

I call bullshit.  The fructose from the fruit doesn't go through the liver because it doesn't cause the production of insulin.  

An apple has 95 calories, while a snickers bar with comparable sugar levels contains 215 calories.  And apple has 4g of fiber while the snickers bar has less than 1g.  So an apple will make you feel fuller longer, slow the uptake of its own sugar with the fiber it contains.  The uptake of the snickers sugar would be nearly instantaneous.  Setting your body up to produce insulin and activate your 'liver sponge'.  

If you are trying to lose fat that you already have ('maximize fat loss') then you want to avoid fruit because your body will use the sugars in the fruit for its needs instead of using the stored fats.  But this page is misleading when it says that the fruit will 'make you fat.'  It might keep you fat, but the snickers bar will make you fat AND keep you fat.

Doctors already differentiate between fruits and veggies.  They are separate groups with the fruits being recommended at a lower consumption than fruits, so it's a cop-out to say that people eat more fruits and not more veggies when docs recommend them.  And comparing them to arsenic and cyanide is just ridiculous...and inflammatory.  That type of hyperbole would make anything else in his book suspect for me. 

MixedCooke
by Group Admin on Mar. 11, 2016 at 9:54 AM
He's not saying a Snickers won't make you fat, he is saying that sugar whether it comes from a Snickers or a piece of fruit, it is still sugar. He is saying that the fructose in fruit is not processed by the liver and goes straight to our fat cells but the sugar in a Snickers is glucose and does need to be processed by the liver. Cholesterol and insulin are the results of our carb intake and it is the low fat, low cholesterol diet misinformation which has caused the increase in the obesity rate of America.

Quoting bluerooffarm:

I call bullshit.  The fructose from the fruit doesn't go through the liver because it doesn't cause the production of insulin.  

An apple has 95 calories, while a snickers bar with comparable sugar levels contains 215 calories.  And apple has 4g of fiber while the snickers bar has less than 1g.  So an apple will make you feel fuller longer, slow the uptake of its own sugar with the fiber it contains.  The uptake of the snickers sugar would be nearly instantaneous.  Setting your body up to produce insulin and activate your 'liver sponge'.  

If you are trying to lose fat that you already have ('maximize fat loss') then you want to avoid fruit because your body will use the sugars in the fruit for its needs instead of using the stored fats.  But this page is misleading when it says that the fruit will 'make you fat.'  It might keep you fat, but the snickers bar will make you fat AND keep you fat.

Doctors already differentiate between fruits and veggies.  They are separate groups with the fruits being recommended at a lower consumption than fruits, so it's a cop-out to say that people eat more fruits and not more veggies when docs recommend them.  And comparing them to arsenic and cyanide is just ridiculous...and inflammatory.  That type of hyperbole would make anything else in his book suspect for me. 

michiganmom116
by Rhonda on Mar. 11, 2016 at 10:06 AM

Our bodies can process glucose, but cannot do the same for fructose.  The liver CAN process fructose (the only part of our body that can) but an overload of fructose is turned to fat, and it increases the risk for fatty liver disease, leptin resistance, insulin resistance, heart disease, and diabetes.

Quoting MixedCooke: He's not saying a Snickers won't make you fat, he is saying that sugar whether it comes from a Snickers or a piece of fruit, it is still sugar. He is saying that the fructose in fruit is not processed by the liver and goes straight to our fat cells but the sugar in a Snickers is glucose and does need to be processed by the liver. Cholesterol and insulin are the results of our carb intake and it is the low fat, low cholesterol diet misinformation which has caused the increase in the obesity rate of America.
Quoting bluerooffarm:

I call bullshit.  The fructose from the fruit doesn't go through the liver because it doesn't cause the production of insulin.  

An apple has 95 calories, while a snickers bar with comparable sugar levels contains 215 calories.  And apple has 4g of fiber while the snickers bar has less than 1g.  So an apple will make you feel fuller longer, slow the uptake of its own sugar with the fiber it contains.  The uptake of the snickers sugar would be nearly instantaneous.  Setting your body up to produce insulin and activate your 'liver sponge'.  

If you are trying to lose fat that you already have ('maximize fat loss') then you want to avoid fruit because your body will use the sugars in the fruit for its needs instead of using the stored fats.  But this page is misleading when it says that the fruit will 'make you fat.'  It might keep you fat, but the snickers bar will make you fat AND keep you fat.

Doctors already differentiate between fruits and veggies.  They are separate groups with the fruits being recommended at a lower consumption than fruits, so it's a cop-out to say that people eat more fruits and not more veggies when docs recommend them.  And comparing them to arsenic and cyanide is just ridiculous...and inflammatory.  That type of hyperbole would make anything else in his book suspect for me. 


michiganmom116
by Rhonda on Mar. 11, 2016 at 10:12 AM


Quoting bluerooffarm:


Doctors already differentiate between fruits and veggies.  They are separate groups with the fruits being recommended at a lower consumption than fruits, so it's a cop-out to say that people eat more fruits and not more veggies when docs recommend them.  

Not in my experience.  The doctor and dietician that I had as little as 5 years ago recommended more fruits and veggies (those exact words).  My DH heard that, went right to fruits since he's not a veggies fan.  Bananas, apples, grapes, muskmelon were his preferences.  The average person would rather have sweet fruits than broccoli or spinach.  

michiganmom116
by Rhonda on Mar. 11, 2016 at 10:13 AM

Fructose is also known to contribute to triglyceride levels.  I wouldn't condemn a piece of fruit a day as doing so, but think of the fructose in foods/drinks that the unknowing/unaware consumer is consuming.

bluerooffarm
by Silver Member on Mar. 11, 2016 at 10:15 AM

The fifth line down...."So we get fatter, quicker, by eating fruit."  

He's absolutely discounting the effect of the fiber on the slowing down of the fruit sugars.  That fiber slows the uptake of the fruit sugars just as the liver slows the release of the snickers sugars.  Again, IMO it's misinformation and makes the remainder of his book suspect.  

Quoting MixedCooke: He's not saying a Snickers won't make you fat, he is saying that sugar whether it comes from a Snickers or a piece of fruit, it is still sugar. He is saying that the fructose in fruit is not processed by the liver and goes straight to our fat cells but the sugar in a Snickers is glucose and does need to be processed by the liver. Cholesterol and insulin are the results of our carb intake and it is the low fat, low cholesterol diet misinformation which has caused the increase in the obesity rate of America.
Quoting bluerooffarm:

I call bullshit.  The fructose from the fruit doesn't go through the liver because it doesn't cause the production of insulin.  

An apple has 95 calories, while a snickers bar with comparable sugar levels contains 215 calories.  And apple has 4g of fiber while the snickers bar has less than 1g.  So an apple will make you feel fuller longer, slow the uptake of its own sugar with the fiber it contains.  The uptake of the snickers sugar would be nearly instantaneous.  Setting your body up to produce insulin and activate your 'liver sponge'.  

If you are trying to lose fat that you already have ('maximize fat loss') then you want to avoid fruit because your body will use the sugars in the fruit for its needs instead of using the stored fats.  But this page is misleading when it says that the fruit will 'make you fat.'  It might keep you fat, but the snickers bar will make you fat AND keep you fat.

Doctors already differentiate between fruits and veggies.  They are separate groups with the fruits being recommended at a lower consumption than fruits, so it's a cop-out to say that people eat more fruits and not more veggies when docs recommend them.  And comparing them to arsenic and cyanide is just ridiculous...and inflammatory.  That type of hyperbole would make anything else in his book suspect for me. 


bluerooffarm
by Silver Member on Mar. 11, 2016 at 10:18 AM


Quoting michiganmom116:

Quoting bluerooffarm:


Doctors already differentiate between fruits and veggies.  They are separate groups with the fruits being recommended at a lower consumption than fruits, so it's a cop-out to say that people eat more fruits and not more veggies when docs recommend them.  

Not in my experience.  The doctor and dietician that I had as little as 5 years ago recommended more fruits and veggies (those exact words).  My DH heard that, went right to fruits since he's not a veggies fan.  Bananas, apples, grapes, muskmelon were his preferences.  The average person would rather have sweet fruits than broccoli or spinach.  

One look at the myplate (or back then the food pyramid) shows that they are separate and gives the recommendations for each.  4-5 for veg and 2-3 for fruit.  I've never gone to a doctor or dietician who didn't hand out those resources when they recommended a diet change.  So the medical community can't truly be blamed for what their patients want to hear.

michiganmom116
by Rhonda on Mar. 11, 2016 at 10:22 AM
1 mom liked this


Quoting bluerooffarm:

Quoting michiganmom116:

Quoting bluerooffarm:


Doctors already differentiate between fruits and veggies.  They are separate groups with the fruits being recommended at a lower consumption than fruits, so it's a cop-out to say that people eat more fruits and not more veggies when docs recommend them.  

Not in my experience.  The doctor and dietician that I had as little as 5 years ago recommended more fruits and veggies (those exact words).  My DH heard that, went right to fruits since he's not a veggies fan.  Bananas, apples, grapes, muskmelon were his preferences.  The average person would rather have sweet fruits than broccoli or spinach.  

One look at the myplate (or back then the food pyramid) shows that they are separate and gives the recommendations for each.  4-5 for veg and 2-3 for fruit.  I've never gone to a doctor or dietician who didn't hand out those resources when they recommended a diet change.  So the medical community can't truly be blamed for what their patients want to hear.

I do blame them, although maybe not all of the medical community. I have been to doctors and a dietician that didn't hand out those resources, not that I give those resources any credibility anyway.

MixedCooke
by Group Admin on Mar. 11, 2016 at 11:59 AM
1 mom liked this
I'm not saying this is the end all be all of weight loss related books, I'm just saying that it is an interesting read and an atypical viewpoint from a doctor.

Quoting bluerooffarm:

The fifth line down...."So we get fatter, quicker, by eating fruit."  

He's absolutely discounting the effect of the fiber on the slowing down of the fruit sugars.  That fiber slows the uptake of the fruit sugars just as the liver slows the release of the snickers sugars.  Again, IMO it's misinformation and makes the remainder of his book suspect.  

Quoting MixedCooke: He's not saying a Snickers won't make you fat, he is saying that sugar whether it comes from a Snickers or a piece of fruit, it is still sugar. He is saying that the fructose in fruit is not processed by the liver and goes straight to our fat cells but the sugar in a Snickers is glucose and does need to be processed by the liver. Cholesterol and insulin are the results of our carb intake and it is the low fat, low cholesterol diet misinformation which has caused the increase in the obesity rate of America.

Quoting bluerooffarm:

I call bullshit.  The fructose from the fruit doesn't go through the liver because it doesn't cause the production of insulin.  

An apple has 95 calories, while a snickers bar with comparable sugar levels contains 215 calories.  And apple has 4g of fiber while the snickers bar has less than 1g.  So an apple will make you feel fuller longer, slow the uptake of its own sugar with the fiber it contains.  The uptake of the snickers sugar would be nearly instantaneous.  Setting your body up to produce insulin and activate your 'liver sponge'.  

If you are trying to lose fat that you already have ('maximize fat loss') then you want to avoid fruit because your body will use the sugars in the fruit for its needs instead of using the stored fats.  But this page is misleading when it says that the fruit will 'make you fat.'  It might keep you fat, but the snickers bar will make you fat AND keep you fat.

Doctors already differentiate between fruits and veggies.  They are separate groups with the fruits being recommended at a lower consumption than fruits, so it's a cop-out to say that people eat more fruits and not more veggies when docs recommend them.  And comparing them to arsenic and cyanide is just ridiculous...and inflammatory.  That type of hyperbole would make anything else in his book suspect for me. 

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