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Anything that isn't part of the debate.

by on Sep. 22, 2010 at 12:06 PM
Replies (11-20):
Gal51
by on Sep. 23, 2010 at 10:22 PM


Quoting bandgeek521:


Quoting Gal51:

Based on these definitions, if you are wanting to say that God is responsible for what we know as Darwinian Evolution, specifically the origin of the species, then I think you would be on "Team Evolution." However, ID supports things like an older earth, microevolution (but not macroevolution, and therefore rejects Darwin's idea on the origin of species), and never names a designer. There are IDists who are atheist in theology and believe that the "designer" may have been alien life "seeding" planet earth.

I'm pretty sure I don't reject macroevolution. From what I know/understand, I accept the concept of Darwinian Evolution. That's what I was asking, especially given some of the siggies/banners she had made, like the Darwin fish facing off against the Jesus fish. Those of us who consider ourselves evolutionists, but believe that evolution is the means through which  God works, is there any need to make a distinction, or are we going to just going to divide into the two camps of evolutionist and creationist.

It doesn't really matter to me, I was just curious. ;)

Probably for the purpose of this group, the distinction doesn't need to be made, because I would imagine that you would be defending the principles of Darinian Evolution. In which case, I'd call you Team Evolution ;-)


Clairwil
by Member on Sep. 24, 2010 at 1:32 AM
Quoting bandgeek521:

That's what I was asking, especially given some of the siggies/banners she had made, like the Darwin fish facing off against the Jesus fish.

I don't have any graphic design talent.

Perhaps a picture of Darwin vs a picture of Darwin inside a circular ban symbol like Ghostbusters?

Clairwil
by Member on Sep. 24, 2010 at 1:38 AM
Quoting bandgeek521:

The same source also seperates the different beliefs into:

Quote:

"A CREATIONIST: A creationist is a person who rejects the theory of evolution and believes instead that the each species on earth was put here by a Divine Being.  A Creationist might accept "micro-evolution" (changes in the form of a species over time based on natural selection), but rejects the notion that one species can-- over time-- become another species.

YOUNG EARTH CREATIONIST: A young earth creationist believes that the earth is nowhere near the 4.6 billion or so years old that most scientists estimate, but is instead closer to 6,000 or so years old, based on the assumption the Genesis contains a complete listing of the generations from Adam and Eve to historical times.

INTELLIGENT DESIGN PROPONENT: An ID proponent might or might not reject the theory of evolution.  At a minimum, the ID proponent rejects that evolution is randomly driven or, more generally, the notion that natural law and chance alone can explain the diversity of life on earth.  Instead, the ID proponent argues--often from statistics--that the diversity of life is the result of a purposeful scheme of some higher power (who may or may not be the God of the Bible).

EVOLUTIONIST: An evolutionist accepts the Darwinian argument that natural selection and environmental factors combine to explain the diversity of life we see on earth.  An evolutionist may or may not believe that evolution is the way in which a Divine Being has chosen to work in the world.  Evolutionists divide into various camps, including PUNCTUALISTS (who believe that evolution usually occurs sporadically, in relatively short bursts, as the result of major environmental change) and GRADUALISTS (who are more inclined to believe that evolution occurs more evenly, over longer periods of time).  The PUNCTUALISTS seem now to be winning the argument."


The two teams are defined by which side of the formal motion that people want to be on:

 "This house accepts evolution as a sufficient and the most likely explanation of the origin of the human species."


If you support that motion, you're on Team Evolution.

If you're against that motion (for whatever reason), you're on Team Creationism.


I suppose we could set up a few threads for different strains of thinking within Team Creationism to debate each other, I'll let them discuss that in the Team Creationism home thread and let me know when they've agreed on an approach.

bandgeek521
by on Sep. 24, 2010 at 1:38 AM


Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting bandgeek521:

That's what I was asking, especially given some of the siggies/banners she had made, like the Darwin fish facing off against the Jesus fish.

I don't have any graphic design talent.

Perhaps a picture of Darwin vs a picture of Darwin inside a circular ban symbol like Ghostbusters?

Oh, I wasn't complaining. I think what you've come up with so far looks great. It looks good, and its clever. :)

You don't have to think of others just because I used it as an example, I promise. I like the one about understanding the evidence, especially. :D

Clairwil
by Member on Sep. 24, 2010 at 1:39 AM
Quoting Gal51:

Clairwill, I have to say that Team Evolution is a bit presumptutious. Are you saying that Team God can't understand the evidence??

I was trying to characterise how more polarised members of the Team might come up with a slogan.

It is no more presumptious that the assumption that God is NOT on the side of Team Evolution.

Clairwil
by Member on Sep. 24, 2010 at 1:45 AM
Quoting bandgeek521:
Quoting Gal51:

Based on these definitions, if you are wanting to say that God is responsible for what we know as Darwinian Evolution, specifically the origin of the species, then I think you would be on "Team Evolution." However, ID supports things like an older earth, microevolution (but not macroevolution, and therefore rejects Darwin's idea on the origin of species), and never names a designer. There are IDists who are atheist in theology and believe that the "designer" may have been alien life "seeding" planet earth.

I'm pretty sure I don't reject macroevolution. From what I know/understand, I accept the concept of Darwinian Evolution. That's what I was asking, especially given some of the siggies/banners she had made, like the Darwin fish facing off against the Jesus fish. Those of us who consider ourselves evolutionists, but believe that evolution is the means through which  God works, is there any need to make a distinction, or are we going to just going to divide into the two camps of evolutionist and creationist.

It doesn't really matter to me, I was just curious. ;)

Two camps, I think.

If you think that God might have had a hand in the process nudging things a little bit on occasion, but you accept evolution and that evolution is a SUFFICIENT explanation for the objective evidence (meaning you can't deduce the existance of God JUST from the biological evidence, because it COULD have just been due to evolution), then you're firmly in the Team Evolution camp.

bandgeek521
by on Sep. 24, 2010 at 2:16 AM

Works for me! :)

lol, and I hope it didn't seem like I was trying to stir things or get too complicated. Mere curiosity. ;)

Clairwil
by Member on Sep. 24, 2010 at 2:23 AM
Quoting bandgeek521:

Works for me! :)

lol, and I hope it didn't seem like I was trying to stir things or get too complicated. Mere curiosity. ;)

Not at all.  It is really useful to know if anything confuses people about the way the group is set up.

Based on this thread, I've altered the welcome message that gets sent to everyone when they join, to include the text of the motion:

" This house accepts evolution as a sufficient and the most likely explanation of the origin of the human species. "

Clairwil
by Member on Sep. 24, 2010 at 2:30 AM
Quoting bandgeek521:


Quoting Clairwil:

Admins can give people a title, specific to this group.

Would people find it useful to give members "Team Evolution", "Team Creationism" or "Team Neutral" as a title, depending on whether they've posted to:

NAD: What do Team Evolution think?

NAD: What do Team Creationism think?

or neither?

And I think that titles would be a good idea. :)

Ok, well nobody has posted in either of the above threads yet.  When someone does, I'll give them their title.

Clairwil
by Member on Nov. 1, 2010 at 1:41 AM

Sadly nobody appears to be posting to this group any more, and I'm wondering if that is partially because people use  Groups : My Replies  to keep track of things, and that only shows posts created within the last 7 days.

If that is so, perhaps trying to keep debates to appropriate long-lived threads is a bad idea.  At this point, anything is worth trying so I suggest we change the way we do things and people post new threads for seperate arguments.

Perhaps we can just link to those from the original main threads, as a sort of index?

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