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"Our" children vs. "My" children

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 I saw this video today, and I understand what she was trying to say; However, the video still seemed creepy to me.  What do you ladies think?

http://www.westernjournalism.com/msnbc-host-all-your-kids-belong-to-us/

by on Apr. 9, 2013 at 7:50 AM
Replies (31-34):
celticdragon77
by on Apr. 10, 2013 at 11:26 AM

I know she has a show on tv (from what I read). I assumed it was a clip from her show that aired or was coming up - or an interview, etc. 

In some ways I was annoyed that she was so broad in what she said. Yet, it also made me have to think more. In what ways could she mean that the education system is not supported enough? In what ways does that impact our communities? What is the balanced and proper measures without it infringing on rights? At what point is children and community rights infringed on vs the parents rights? I rather enjoyed letting my mind play around with those questions. 


Quoting bluerooffarm:

 

Quoting celticdragon77:

Quoting bluerooffarm:

 

Quoting celticdragon77:

She meant that your child is not JUST ONLY YOUR child, but ALSO part of something bigger - a community of people - a society. A part of a quilt. This IS true! However there is a point where this notion can go too far and one has to maintain a careful balance.

 
As I said, I know what she was trying to say, but it is NOT what she said.  Our government has not walked that balance well, so I am not comfortable with this "Promo" on MSNBC.

This is a very small sound bit and I can not find it in its full context - which makes it difficult to have a fair argument concerning what she says here. I can only go by what she herself says in this small sound bit. She starts off saying that "we have never invested as much as we should in Public education Because..." Now this seems to indicate that she is referring to our education system not having enough support - but she doesn't say in what way. But this first bit helps nail down her reference point. Then she goes on to say how it is because "we have never had the collective notion Of "these are our children".

I find her point of view interesting and I am very curious to hear the entirety of her thoughts. I may end up agreeing or disagreeing. But it's a worthy enough thought to reflect on. Our children DO grow up and DO become a part of a community. A lot of children DO get left behind! Especially in poor communities. They grow up and enter into the community and where are they likely to end up? Do you support them via welfare, prison, or the etc? It effects all of us!

 There is no entirety.  This was it.  It's not a byte from a whole interview.  This is a promo that MSNBC is running.  So I would suggest that they believe that this is their whole point. 

If people are not willing to volunteer in the schools for "their own kids" then others from the community at large are not going to be willing to volunteer either.  Making the argument that the kids belong to all of us is not going to change that fact.  So where could this argument possibly go?  I agree there absolutely has to be more, however it isn't here.  There are no conclusions reached, so it's for the audience to decide.  IMO it is the beginning of a dangerous idea.  To imply that my children belong to the community more than just to me?  That is a dangerous philosophy.  And I find it especially dangerous since she doesn't bring it to a conclusion.  It's just a quick idea floating out there, not connected to anything.  It COULD be the beginning of an argument to send ALL kids to public schools, since I don't "own" my kids, I can't possibly teach them to "belong" to the community.  I HOPE that isn't the argument she is starting, but it could be.  Since she doesn't conclude her argument, we have NO IDEA where she is going with it.  Which IMO makes it all the more dangerous.


"live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air..." Emerson 

bluerooffarm
by Gold Member on Apr. 10, 2013 at 11:44 AM

 Have you ever watched the documentary "Waiting for Superman"?  It discusses the way that "dropout centers" (public schools where the dropout rate is very high) work to the detriment of the community as much as the poor communities work to the detriment of the school.  It's very interesting.

As far as the rights of the child, community, and parents.... I really don't believe that the community can possibly gain anything by imposing the "collective" rights above that of the child and parent.  In the equation, I don't put stock in discussing the community's rights.  If we are not doing what is in the best interest of either the parent or the child, then the community will weaken.  Why would I as a parent want to be a part of a community that did not see my rights as a parent to my child?  As a child why would I grow up to be part of a community that held its own rights over those of me?  Look at the churches that are dying.  They (the adults in the church) are not seeing the rights of the children with in them and therefore the children do not grow up to remain within the church. 

I can see looking at the effects of what is happening to the children within the community and what is happening to the community itself, but we cannot infringe on the rights of the parents or the children in order to strengthen the community.  It would not strengthen the community in the long run.

Quoting celticdragon77:

I know she has a show on tv (from what I read). I assumed it was a clip from her show that aired or was coming up - or an interview, etc. 

In some ways I was annoyed that she was so broad in what she said. Yet, it also made me have to think more. In what ways could she mean that the education system is not supported enough? In what ways does that impact our communities? What is the balanced and proper measures without it infringing on rights? At what point is children and community rights infringed on vs the parents rights? I rather enjoyed letting my mind play around with those questions. 


Quoting bluerooffarm:


 

celticdragon77
by on Apr. 10, 2013 at 4:41 PM

I have seen that movie - it's very good. 

And yes, there is a very sad and unfair poverty - education cycle. 

I find your thoughts interesting. However, I think of situations when I wonder if the will or unfortunate circumstances of the parents is not detrimental to the child, which in turn can be detrimental to the community. I grew up in foster care - so I am very much aware of the worst imperfections of many family units. I have seen the vicious cycles. Some times, it is better for the child and the community when action is taken to help another person - and sometimes that means going against the parents. But when I say this, I mean it in a way where the person has committed an act that should mean they no longer deserve certain rights.  

However, she is specific to education - public education. The public system does need a huge improvement and does need to help all of the kids that get lost in the system. There does need to be equality for all kids to have great teachers, great schools, great books, great lessons, etc. every child deserves that! It doesn't matter if you are poor, black/hispanic, male/female, etc. We DO need to see the value in every child and the future impact they will have on society. People need to recognize this and take action. 

Quoting bluerooffarm:

 Have you ever watched the documentary "Waiting for Superman"?  It discusses the way that "dropout centers" (public schools where the dropout rate is very high) work to the detriment of the community as much as the poor communities work to the detriment of the school.  It's very interesting.

As far as the rights of the child, community, and parents.... I really don't believe that the community can possibly gain anything by imposing the "collective" rights above that of the child and parent.  In the equation, I don't put stock in discussing the community's rights.  If we are not doing what is in the best interest of either the parent or the child, then the community will weaken.  Why would I as a parent want to be a part of a community that did not see my rights as a parent to my child?  As a child why would I grow up to be part of a community that held its own rights over those of me?  Look at the churches that are dying.  They (the adults in the church) are not seeing the rights of the children with in them and therefore the children do not grow up to remain within the church. 

I can see looking at the effects of what is happening to the children within the community and what is happening to the community itself, but we cannot infringe on the rights of the parents or the children in order to strengthen the community.  It would not strengthen the community in the long run.

Quoting celticdragon77:

I know she has a show on tv (from what I read). I assumed it was a clip from her show that aired or was coming up - or an interview, etc. 

In some ways I was annoyed that she was so broad in what she said. Yet, it also made me have to think more. In what ways could she mean that the education system is not supported enough? In what ways does that impact our communities? What is the balanced and proper measures without it infringing on rights? At what point is children and community rights infringed on vs the parents rights? I rather enjoyed letting my mind play around with those questions. 


Quoting bluerooffarm:


 


"live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air..." Emerson 

bluerooffarm
by Gold Member on Apr. 10, 2013 at 5:15 PM

 While I agree that all children regardless of race, economic status or gender should receive the same educational opportunity,  I think throwing money at the problem is not the answer. (the beginning where she talks about not investing in ed, and the end again she talks about investing) And she does not define "community."  Is she talking about the state or the nation?  I completely disagree with education moving above the state level.  As an educator, each level of beauracracy between the teacher and the "power" that wrote an edict made the edict more ridiculous.  NCLB was ludicrous and RttT is nearly as bad in its own way.

In the days when this nation ranked #1, education was left much more to the locality.  As far as commnity goes, the locality is better equipped to handle their own.  Moving back to a time when the states were truly free to choose a starting age (not influenced/bullied by the Fed DoE), Free to choose testing, etc.  But also moving away from the NEA.  The more people talk about the community, the closer they walk to the unions. 

As for the red highlighted....?  Can you give an example?

Quoting celticdragon77:

I have seen that movie - it's very good. 

And yes, there is a very sad and unfair poverty - education cycle. 

I find your thoughts interesting. However, I think of situations when I wonder if the will or unfortunate circumstances of the parents is not detrimental to the child, which in turn can be detrimental to the community. I grew up in foster care - so I am very much aware of the worst imperfections of many family units. I have seen the vicious cycles. Some times, it is better for the child and the community when action is taken to help another person - and sometimes that means going against the parents. But when I say this, I mean it in a way where the person has committed an act that should mean they no longer deserve certain rights.  

However, she is specific to education - public education. The public system does need a huge improvement and does need to help all of the kids that get lost in the system. There does need to be equality for all kids to have great teachers, great schools, great books, great lessons, etc. every child deserves that! It doesn't matter if you are poor, black/hispanic, male/female, etc. We DO need to see the value in every child and the future impact they will have on society. People need to recognize this and take action. 

Quoting bluerooffarm:

 Have you ever watched the documentary "Waiting for Superman"?  It discusses the way that "dropout centers" (public schools where the dropout rate is very high) work to the detriment of the community as much as the poor communities work to the detriment of the school.  It's very interesting.

As far as the rights of the child, community, and parents.... I really don't believe that the community can possibly gain anything by imposing the "collective" rights above that of the child and parent.  In the equation, I don't put stock in discussing the community's rights.  If we are not doing what is in the best interest of either the parent or the child, then the community will weaken.  Why would I as a parent want to be a part of a community that did not see my rights as a parent to my child?  As a child why would I grow up to be part of a community that held its own rights over those of me?  Look at the churches that are dying.  They (the adults in the church) are not seeing the rights of the children with in them and therefore the children do not grow up to remain within the church. 

I can see looking at the effects of what is happening to the children within the community and what is happening to the community itself, but we cannot infringe on the rights of the parents or the children in order to strengthen the community.  It would not strengthen the community in the long run.

Quoting celticdragon77:

I know she has a show on tv (from what I read). I assumed it was a clip from her show that aired or was coming up - or an interview, etc. 

In some ways I was annoyed that she was so broad in what she said. Yet, it also made me have to think more. In what ways could she mean that the education system is not supported enough? In what ways does that impact our communities? What is the balanced and proper measures without it infringing on rights? At what point is children and community rights infringed on vs the parents rights? I rather enjoyed letting my mind play around with those questions. 


Quoting bluerooffarm:


 


 

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