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You cannot see a STEM without a LAMP....

Posted by on Jul. 9, 2013 at 8:13 AM
  • 15 Replies

 I have been following an argument about "STEM"---> Science Technology Engineering Math VRS. STEAM ---> A=Arts  trying to add art in there to keep the funding for these programs in our schools and the inportance of these subjects in our everyday lives.

I have been waffling back and forth about this for a long time now.  You see, the arts are so very different from the other subjects.  It just doesn't fit in with the others.  BUT Arts--- literature, art and music--- are so important IMO to the human experience.  Archeologists discuss the ART that describes the people they are studying.  We all know the Literature stories passed down through the generations.  We all know about communication through music and the feelings that surround music.  It needs to be important too.  We also know that there are children who are completely left-brain learners who will never be a great Scientist, Technician, Engineer, or Mathmetician but my God the beauty of their music will bring you to tears.  Isn't there a place in our civilization for those students?  Not if we completely gut those programs in order to focus only on STEM classes.

I have found my answer!!!  You need both STEM and LAMP!!  Lamp---> Literature Art Music Philosophy.  The sign of protest at our local schoolboard meeting was "You cannot see a STEM without a LAMP."  It blew my mind!!  It is perfect, IMO.  We need both.  We need to recognize the importance of the Arts because they make us human.

ETA:  A bit of background....our local public school has dropped music from the elementary grades 1-4, only have music as the band/chorus electives for 5-12, and are this year considering dropping art classes for the "odd" grades...1,3,5,&7...and making it an elective for highschool.  They are making their language arts program 60% informational reading and technical writing.  They are dropping all creative writing electives for etymology, "writing up science experiments," and "Memorandums and other business mailings." 

 

EDIT #2:  Here are some links to the debate:

http://www.skepticblog.org/2013/03/14/stem-not-steam/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-kamen/stem-to-steam-art-is-key-_b_2123099.html

http://steam-notstem.com/

http://stemtosteam.org/

 

Any thoughts??

by on Jul. 9, 2013 at 8:13 AM
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Replies (1-10):
celticdragon77
by on Jul. 9, 2013 at 8:20 AM

How is this even a debate? Why would there not be all of them - or a connection to how they weave amongst each other? I feel like I must be missing something here?!?!

bluerooffarm
by Gold Member on Jul. 9, 2013 at 8:25 AM

 

Quoting celticdragon77:

How is this even a debate? Why would there not be all of them? And would it be hard to see why they all tie together? I feel like I must be missing something here?!?!

 Here's the gist of it... the STEM careers supposedly do not have enough people going into them (although my hubby is an electrical engineer and cannot find a job in his field:/ ) also the standardized testing is very STEM-centered.  Most of the writings on the test are informational pieces, there are more tests for sciences and math than there are for language arts and there are NONE for art, music, etc.  So when a school is determining what to spend money on, they follow the testing.  Therefore they are pushing the STEM classes.

 

 

ETA:  And cutting the arts programs.

kmath
by Silver Member on Jul. 9, 2013 at 8:46 AM

I can't imagine not having LAMP classes.  They are just as important, IMO, as STEM classes.  I know funding is tight for schools, but to cut those programs does do a huge disservice to kids, especially ones who don't excell in the sciences or math.  They need something to do well in also.  You need both sets to get a well rounded education and I think you need both to do well in life. 

celticdragon77
by on Jul. 9, 2013 at 8:53 AM

I admit, those LAMP elements do seem more as though they should be the accents... the beauty that is weaved throughout. Those who are naturally blessed with it should have the option to explore it with more depths - though not to take away from the core of academics. 

bluerooffarm
by Gold Member on Jul. 9, 2013 at 8:59 AM

 

Quoting kmath:

I can't imagine not having LAMP classes.  They are just as important, IMO, as STEM classes.  I know funding is tight for schools, but to cut those programs does do a huge disservice to kids, especially ones who don't excell in the sciences or math.  They need something to do well in also.  You need both sets to get a well rounded education and I think you need both to do well in life. 

 I completely agree which was why I kept going back and forth about adding the A in STEM.  They are such different subjects, yet they are such inportant subjects.  Also I always think about how discouraged and burned-out the kids who do not excell in the maths and sciences get.  If we want them to stay in school, we need them to have SOME fun in their day.

bluerooffarm
by Gold Member on Jul. 9, 2013 at 9:08 AM
2 moms liked this

 

Quoting celticdragon77:

I admit, those LAMP elements do seem more as though they should be the accents... the beauty that is weaved throughout. Those who are naturally blessed with it should have the option to explore it with more depths - though not to take away from the core of academics. 

 But why does it seem as though they should be the accents?  Our culture is wrapped in our story, if you change the story, you change the culture.  We teach our "truths" through our stories.  We teach our morals through our stories.  If we want to keep our society and culture strong, we need strong story-tellers to keep our story strong.  If Literature is relegated to the accents, where does the culture go?  I think the "people in charge" have changed our story over the last 50-100 years to this idea that the sciences are more important than the arts and should be encouraged more than the arts.  In the beginning (from what I've read) the story was that the science, technology, and engineering would give us conveniences so that we could have more time for leisure and art.  Instead we have become so focused on STEM that we are letting go of art altogether.

celticdragon77
by on Jul. 9, 2013 at 9:32 AM

I think that this is basically a discussion of what the ultimate point of education is. I was surprised the other week when I realized the wide varying views on the purpose of college. A public school as a catch all system will never meet that societys needs. It needs a revolution to allow an evolution for the times. I personally like the idea of ... what is that ... privatizing schools. Where you take the jist of the control from the government, allow other free thinking minds - society, to mold it into what it wants and needs. The government still pays for the childs education - the money just follows the child to whatever school the parent so chooses (whether a more artistic school, or the etc). There is no more prejudice in zip coded educations. Though I DO see that some flaws would need worked out in that scheme. But we will never be presented with a "perfect" solution for everyone. 

In my everyday life, the arts are just accents. I like to be creative with everything I do. It is a touch of flare I add. 

Quoting bluerooffarm:

 

Quoting celticdragon77:

I admit, those LAMP elements do seem more as though they should be the accents... the beauty that is weaved throughout. Those who are naturally blessed with it should have the option to explore it with more depths - though not to take away from the core of academics. 

 But why does it seem as though they should be the accents?  Our culture is wrapped in our story, if you change the story, you change the culture.  We teach our "truths" through our stories.  We teach our morals through our stories.  If we want to keep our society and culture strong, we need strong story-tellers to keep our story strong.  If Literature is relegated to the accents, where does the culture go?  I think the "people in charge" have changed our story over the last 50-100 years to this idea that the sciences are more important than the arts and should be encouraged more than the arts.  In the beginning (from what I've read) the story was that the science, technology, and engineering would give us conveniences so that we could have more time for leisure and art.  Instead we have become so focused on STEM that we are letting go of art altogether.


bluerooffarm
by Gold Member on Jul. 9, 2013 at 9:42 AM

 IMO because public schools are the "catch-all" they need to be the most well rounded, bit of everything.  I'm really not sure about privatization.  It might become all about a specific corporation.  As you said kinks to work out of that system.  I believe the schools need to be more localized with more say by the voters and the boards but with more funding going to them in a more socio-economically balanced way.  In other words each school gets to spend around the same amount on each student.  Since education needs to change rapidly in order to ready children for what society needs, the beuracracy of the larger school districts are slowing down the necessary changes.

I do believe that kids should also have more school choice though.

Quoting celticdragon77:

I think that this is basically a discussion of what the ultimate point of education is. I was surprised the other week when I realized the wide varying views on the purpose of college. A public school as a catch all system will never meet that societys needs. It needs a revolution to allow an evolution for the times. I personally like the idea of ... what is that ... privatizing schools. Where you take the jist of the control from the government, allow other free thinking minds - society, to mold it into what it wants and needs. The government still pays for the childs education - the money just follows the child to whatever school the parent so chooses (whether a more artistic school, or the etc). There is no more prejudice in zip coded educations. Though I DO see that some flaws would need worked out in that scheme. But we will never be presented with a "perfect" solution for everyone. 

In my everyday life, the arts are just accents. 

Quoting bluerooffarm:

 

Quoting celticdragon77:

I admit, those LAMP elements do seem more as though they should be the accents... the beauty that is weaved throughout. Those who are naturally blessed with it should have the option to explore it with more depths - though not to take away from the core of academics. 

 But why does it seem as though they should be the accents?  Our culture is wrapped in our story, if you change the story, you change the culture.  We teach our "truths" through our stories.  We teach our morals through our stories.  If we want to keep our society and culture strong, we need strong story-tellers to keep our story strong.  If Literature is relegated to the accents, where does the culture go?  I think the "people in charge" have changed our story over the last 50-100 years to this idea that the sciences are more important than the arts and should be encouraged more than the arts.  In the beginning (from what I've read) the story was that the science, technology, and engineering would give us conveniences so that we could have more time for leisure and art.  Instead we have become so focused on STEM that we are letting go of art altogether.


 

kmath
by Silver Member on Jul. 9, 2013 at 9:55 AM
2 moms liked this

I don't see how you have one without the other.  Literature is as much a part of our culture as technology is.  It is just as important too.  We wouldn't know a thing about our history if we didn't have writers and story tellers to write it down.  Architecture requires the ability to draw and for the great buildings, an imagination to dream it up.  It also requires the math to make it all work.  Da Vinci combined math with his art and he is one of the greatest painters and greatest thinkers of his time.  I just see all of them as so intertwined.


Quoting celticdragon77:

I admit, those LAMP elements do seem more as though they should be the accents... the beauty that is weaved throughout. Those who are naturally blessed with it should have the option to explore it with more depths - though not to take away from the core of academics. 



celticdragon77
by on Jul. 9, 2013 at 9:58 AM

I would like to hear more of your thoughts on schools needing more local say. I am wondering if we are thinking along the same lines with that, because I grew up in foster care and went to to A LOT of different schools. I have attended schools in 5 states (across the country) - and TONS of schools within those states. They vary SO much. The best school that I ever attended was a school called Manito (in Pennsylvania). It was some private type school for kids who got in a lot of trouble. They made it much more child led... I was always thinking "Why isn't all schools like this". There are people who have created amazing schools that work and nothing happens. I do not see how localizing control is enough - but that could be because I don't know exactly what you are thinking when you say that.

Quoting bluerooffarm:

 IMO because public schools are the "catch-all" they need to be the most well rounded, bit of everything.  I'm really not sure about privatization.  It might become all about a specific corporation.  As you said kinks to work out of that system.  I believe the schools need to be more localized with more say by the voters and the boards but with more funding going to them in a more socio-economically balanced way.  In other words each school gets to spend around the same amount on each student.  Since education needs to change rapidly in order to ready children for what society needs, the beuracracy of the larger school districts are slowing down the necessary changes.

I do believe that kids should also have more school choice though.

Quoting celticdragon77:

I think that this is basically a discussion of what the ultimate point of education is. I was surprised the other week when I realized the wide varying views on the purpose of college. A public school as a catch all system will never meet that societys needs. It needs a revolution to allow an evolution for the times. I personally like the idea of ... what is that ... privatizing schools. Where you take the jist of the control from the government, allow other free thinking minds - society, to mold it into what it wants and needs. The government still pays for the childs education - the money just follows the child to whatever school the parent so chooses (whether a more artistic school, or the etc). There is no more prejudice in zip coded educations. Though I DO see that some flaws would need worked out in that scheme. But we will never be presented with a "perfect" solution for everyone. 

In my everyday life, the arts are just accents. 

Quoting bluerooffarm:

 

Quoting celticdragon77:

I admit, those LAMP elements do seem more as though they should be the accents... the beauty that is weaved throughout. Those who are naturally blessed with it should have the option to explore it with more depths - though not to take away from the core of academics. 

 But why does it seem as though they should be the accents?  Our culture is wrapped in our story, if you change the story, you change the culture.  We teach our "truths" through our stories.  We teach our morals through our stories.  If we want to keep our society and culture strong, we need strong story-tellers to keep our story strong.  If Literature is relegated to the accents, where does the culture go?  I think the "people in charge" have changed our story over the last 50-100 years to this idea that the sciences are more important than the arts and should be encouraged more than the arts.  In the beginning (from what I've read) the story was that the science, technology, and engineering would give us conveniences so that we could have more time for leisure and art.  Instead we have become so focused on STEM that we are letting go of art altogether.


 


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