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Article: School has become too hostile towards boys

Replies (11-20):
Mandallyn
by Member on Aug. 22, 2013 at 11:29 AM
1 mom liked this

I see what you're saying.  Having 3 boys I don't often see these issues from the same stand point.  Thanks for pointing all this out for me.  I agree completely with what you've said.

Quoting bluerooffarm:

 

Quoting Mandallyn:

Ugh, I read this article.  I don't like it's highly gender-biased, as though all boys are spirited and violent.  I get what the article is saying though, and I agree.  Public school is no place for highly active children.  I really wish my oldest boy wouldn't have fought me tooth and nail to get into public school. :(  Now my 4yr old keeps saying he wants to go.  *sigh*  

 I get why it is so gender-biased.  There were so many articles in the 80's and 90's that focused so heavily on how girls were being left behind in the classroom, how girls were not called upon in math and science classrooms, how girls were excluded in the technology classes.  Because of that bad press it has turned much more lopsided the other way at this point.  Boys are typically the ones singled out for those behaviors and labeled as "violent" even when placed side by side with the "spirited" girls.


Bleacheddecay
by Bronze Member on Aug. 22, 2013 at 12:05 PM
3 moms liked this

I firmly believe that little boys should not go to school where they just want to drug them and hold them back plus ruin any self esteem they might have.

hwblyf
by Bronze Member on Aug. 22, 2013 at 12:17 PM
1 mom liked this

Your soapbox is wholly appreciated!  And really, when has a label been truly helpful?  It allows you to see past the person to a set/fixed/determined definition.  I'm not saying that knowing certain things about someone (they have sensory issues, they're autistic, they have allergies so don't even talk to them when hayfever season is upon us, etc....) isn't helpful, but when that's how you present a person, that's what they see.  I've felt that more and more we just wanna cut to the chase and eliminate the personal touch.  Just give me a code, tell me what to do, it'll get done.  Our ps even went to having a drop down list for teacher comments about their student.  So instead of getting on a report card, "Noah's fine motor skills have improved and his enthusiasm for math is evident," they now do things like, "Learns well.  Listens to teacher.  Performs on grade level."  I can't help but wonder what all this "efficiency" is buying us.


Quoting bluerooffarm:

 http://ideas.time.com/2013/08/19/school-has-become-too-hostile-to-boys/

try this one.  It worked from my facebook feed.

I agree with your assessment of the zero tolerance policies.  It definately allows the teachers to simply react to a situation without any thought of the future.  See a gun: Suspension.  There is no room for the teacher to say: Hmmm I asked them to draw their hero, their Dad is their hero, their dad is a policeman....of course a gun is appropriate.  It is simply see and react.

Yes girls who are physically active are also seen through what I call society goggles that they are just cute, will grow out of it, they're just "spazzing," and they won't "hurt" anyone.  Boys are rarely given that benefit of the doubt anymore.

But I also think that schools are hard on girls too, just in other ways.  Girls are "chatty," "distracting," "talkative," "disruptive," "or a "know-it-all."  Many kids are treated poorly, but we as a society often say that it is "necessary" because it teaches them how to do the things they will need to do in society.  But this gives absolutely no acknowledgement to the fact that most kids will grow out of these behaviors without the labels and harsh treatments.

Sorry, I'm jumping off my soap box now!  *Grins sheepishly*

Quoting hwblyf:


I also couldn't get the link to work.  :(  BUT, I'm homeschooling because my son is "violent."  And that is totally their word, not mine.  My son has impulse control issues, he has trust issues, he has sensory issues, probably more issues than I have words for at this point.  Zero tolerance is a policy that never works, is a policy to hide behind, takes control away from the people actually in the situation, and allows our authority figures to disengage their brains.

It's interesting that you point out that boys are typically more physically active than girls.  Even when girls are physically active, their way of displaying it is often far more acceptable in the schools.  They might be thought of as spazzes (I've never seen that word pluralized...it seems strange), but boys are thought of as a danger.  The school psychologist labeled my son dangerous because he was playing with one of those huge rubbermaid trash rolling dumpsters and she felt threatened.  She likened him to Newtown.  That's a huge jump.  HUGE.  And the shame of it all is, how we perceive and go on to treat children, is what they grow into.  I find it appalling that kids aren't allowed to be kids, that mere mentions of a gun, or a picture of a gun, would get kids suspended or expelled.  We have lost our way with our children, forgotten that we are guides, and have gone straight to punitive.  We'll pay for that.

I think school, on the whole, is less and less desirable because of how they treat our children.  Make the day longer, make the school year longer, act as though they have no physical needs, just a brain that needs to be shaped and molded.  We've gone the route that our children are just little adults who can and WILL sit for 8 hours at a desk and get it done.  My daughter suffered as well, it's just that much easier to spot it with boys.

Quoting bluerooffarm:

 I read that article a few days ago.  While I dislike the Zero tolerance rules, I think we do need to teach our sons that violence isn't the right way to do things.  We are perpetuating oppression and war with the way we glorify violence in movies and it exaperates the schools because it is such a difficult concept to explain to children.

In our family we only point guns at things we plan to eat, so they (the 2 boys in the article) would have been reprimanded here.  We have had many a discussion about how most of the comic book heroes do not kill their enemies but instead punish them with jail or the insane asylum.

Now all that said...... Schools are VERY hostile to little boys.  Boys are much more likely (statistically) to be suspended, expelled, fail, need "remediation" for standardized testing, and be recommended for evaluation for medications (ADHD, ODD, ADD, etc).  Boys are often more physically active than girls (yes many girls are too, but statistically boys are "worse").  In the schools we require way too much sitting, we do not offer enough opportunities to burn off that energy.  It is setting these boys up to inappropriately outburst.  Then we punish them for doing what comes naturally.

I have also seen teachers when talking about current events and history that will, very pointedly, look at the boys as they discuss pay differences between girls and boys, appartheid, voting rights, the founding father's views on Women and government, and the list goes on and on.  These boys have absolutely nothing to do with what the founding fathers decided, so why in the world are they making them feel culpable?  So I do agree with the title of the article, the schools have become fairly hostile toward our boys.



 



Precious333
by Silver Member on Aug. 22, 2013 at 12:18 PM
1 mom liked this
I did a research paper on this subject in college. Many decades ago girls were the ones that were, i guess you could say discriminated against, but now its boys. Its becauss boy tend to be more physical, more active, and even more loud at times and our schools are set up go keep kids quiet in their chairs.....probably ...another reason for childhood obesity. Anyways, i alsk have three boys, and they need love ti wrestle, play superheros, police, army etc......they are wired to be heros, and are practicing through their play. I dont thnk its healthy to take that away from them. I remember my mil telling me that in first grade tge teacher actually told them that she didnt like boys! I couldnt imagine having a teacher that didnt like my kids!
Precious333
by Silver Member on Aug. 22, 2013 at 12:22 PM
1 mom liked this
As much as i dont like the school system jn general, i would much rather see my girl go than my boys.......of.course i dont want either to go.


Quoting Bleacheddecay:

I firmly believe that little boys should not go to school where they just want to drug them and hold them back plus ruin any self esteem they might have.


Jinx-Troublex3
by Jinx on Aug. 22, 2013 at 12:28 PM
I didn't read the article, but from my boy's brief years in PS, I saw this so often. It is akin to torture to make these kids, boy and girl, sit for hours on end but so much worse.for most of the boys who are wired to learn through hands-on active methods.
Bleacheddecay
by Bronze Member on Aug. 22, 2013 at 1:01 PM

Totally agree. My girl who had ADHD but they didn't catch it was put in the "gifted" program. My son was expected to be ADHD, they tested him for it even after I told them they couldn't. They wanted him medicated and held back but he didn't test out as "distractable."

I've read numerious cases of sisters being put in gifted while brothers were considered special and put with the disabled people.

A great book that I really enjoyed about this and other things is, The Short Bus: A Journey Beyond Normal by Jonathan Mooney. They put him in the disable class and told his parents he would never graduate from high school. They put his sister in the gift class with the same issues as her brother.

He later not only graduate high school, he talked himself into Harvaard.


Quoting Precious333:

As much as i dont like the school system jn general, i would much rather see my girl go than my boys.......of.course i dont want either to go.


Quoting Bleacheddecay:

I firmly believe that little boys should not go to school where they just want to drug them and hold them back plus ruin any self esteem they might have.




bluerooffarm
by Gold Member on Aug. 22, 2013 at 1:07 PM
1 mom liked this

 Since schools went to computerizing their entire gradebook, they added those drop down menus.  You can add comments of your own, but seriously few teachers do take the time for that personal touch.  BUT they will take time to write a paragraph about the child on the permanent record that gets passed to the teacher the next year so that the new teacher already has a pre-disposed idea of that child.  Growth and development over the summer?  Who cares.  They're still the same aggressive, disruptive, chaotic child they were last year, don't ya know?  *Sigh*

Quoting hwblyf:

Your soapbox is wholly appreciated!  And really, when has a label been truly helpful?  It allows you to see past the person to a set/fixed/determined definition.  I'm not saying that knowing certain things about someone (they have sensory issues, they're autistic, they have allergies so don't even talk to them when hayfever season is upon us, etc....) isn't helpful, but when that's how you present a person, that's what they see.  I've felt that more and more we just wanna cut to the chase and eliminate the personal touch.  Just give me a code, tell me what to do, it'll get done.  Our ps even went to having a drop down list for teacher comments about their student.  So instead of getting on a report card, "Noah's fine motor skills have improved and his enthusiasm for math is evident," they now do things like, "Learns well.  Listens to teacher.  Performs on grade level."  I can't help but wonder what all this "efficiency" is buying us.

 

Quoting bluerooffarm:

 

 

TJandKarasMom
by Debbie on Aug. 22, 2013 at 1:17 PM

Our middle school also uses a drop down list, there is nothing personal on my DSs report cards from this past year at all.

And DD, we are pretty sure she is Autistic, highly functioning-she just has some quirks and things we need to work with.  But when I brought it up to DH when she was younger, he said he would never have her diagnosed unless he felt it would be an extreme benefit to her because he didn't want the label to define her for the rest of her life.  I am glad he had that reaction although I didn't understand it at first, but now that I have worked in the school and seen it all, he was right not to have her diagnosed.  She will be fine as an adult and won't need assistance forever, but us modifying things for her definitely helps her. 


Quoting hwblyf:

Your soapbox is wholly appreciated!  And really, when has a label been truly helpful?  It allows you to see past the person to a set/fixed/determined definition.  I'm not saying that knowing certain things about someone (they have sensory issues, they're autistic, they have allergies so don't even talk to them when hayfever season is upon us, etc....) isn't helpful, but when that's how you present a person, that's what they see.  I've felt that more and more we just wanna cut to the chase and eliminate the personal touch.  Just give me a code, tell me what to do, it'll get done.  Our ps even went to having a drop down list for teacher comments about their student.  So instead of getting on a report card, "Noah's fine motor skills have improved and his enthusiasm for math is evident," they now do things like, "Learns well.  Listens to teacher.  Performs on grade level."  I can't help but wonder what all this "efficiency" is buying us.


Quoting bluerooffarm:

 http://ideas.time.com/2013/08/19/school-has-become-too-hostile-to-boys/

try this one.  It worked from my facebook feed.

I agree with your assessment of the zero tolerance policies.  It definately allows the teachers to simply react to a situation without any thought of the future.  See a gun: Suspension.  There is no room for the teacher to say: Hmmm I asked them to draw their hero, their Dad is their hero, their dad is a policeman....of course a gun is appropriate.  It is simply see and react.

Yes girls who are physically active are also seen through what I call society goggles that they are just cute, will grow out of it, they're just "spazzing," and they won't "hurt" anyone.  Boys are rarely given that benefit of the doubt anymore.

But I also think that schools are hard on girls too, just in other ways.  Girls are "chatty," "distracting," "talkative," "disruptive," "or a "know-it-all."  Many kids are treated poorly, but we as a society often say that it is "necessary" because it teaches them how to do the things they will need to do in society.  But this gives absolutely no acknowledgement to the fact that most kids will grow out of these behaviors without the labels and harsh treatments.

Sorry, I'm jumping off my soap box now!  *Grins sheepishly*

Quoting hwblyf:


I also couldn't get the link to work.  :(  BUT, I'm homeschooling because my son is "violent."  And that is totally their word, not mine.  My son has impulse control issues, he has trust issues, he has sensory issues, probably more issues than I have words for at this point.  Zero tolerance is a policy that never works, is a policy to hide behind, takes control away from the people actually in the situation, and allows our authority figures to disengage their brains.

It's interesting that you point out that boys are typically more physically active than girls.  Even when girls are physically active, their way of displaying it is often far more acceptable in the schools.  They might be thought of as spazzes (I've never seen that word pluralized...it seems strange), but boys are thought of as a danger.  The school psychologist labeled my son dangerous because he was playing with one of those huge rubbermaid trash rolling dumpsters and she felt threatened.  She likened him to Newtown.  That's a huge jump.  HUGE.  And the shame of it all is, how we perceive and go on to treat children, is what they grow into.  I find it appalling that kids aren't allowed to be kids, that mere mentions of a gun, or a picture of a gun, would get kids suspended or expelled.  We have lost our way with our children, forgotten that we are guides, and have gone straight to punitive.  We'll pay for that.

I think school, on the whole, is less and less desirable because of how they treat our children.  Make the day longer, make the school year longer, act as though they have no physical needs, just a brain that needs to be shaped and molded.  We've gone the route that our children are just little adults who can and WILL sit for 8 hours at a desk and get it done.  My daughter suffered as well, it's just that much easier to spot it with boys.

Quoting bluerooffarm:

 I read that article a few days ago.  While I dislike the Zero tolerance rules, I think we do need to teach our sons that violence isn't the right way to do things.  We are perpetuating oppression and war with the way we glorify violence in movies and it exaperates the schools because it is such a difficult concept to explain to children.

In our family we only point guns at things we plan to eat, so they (the 2 boys in the article) would have been reprimanded here.  We have had many a discussion about how most of the comic book heroes do not kill their enemies but instead punish them with jail or the insane asylum.

Now all that said...... Schools are VERY hostile to little boys.  Boys are much more likely (statistically) to be suspended, expelled, fail, need "remediation" for standardized testing, and be recommended for evaluation for medications (ADHD, ODD, ADD, etc).  Boys are often more physically active than girls (yes many girls are too, but statistically boys are "worse").  In the schools we require way too much sitting, we do not offer enough opportunities to burn off that energy.  It is setting these boys up to inappropriately outburst.  Then we punish them for doing what comes naturally.

I have also seen teachers when talking about current events and history that will, very pointedly, look at the boys as they discuss pay differences between girls and boys, appartheid, voting rights, the founding father's views on Women and government, and the list goes on and on.  These boys have absolutely nothing to do with what the founding fathers decided, so why in the world are they making them feel culpable?  So I do agree with the title of the article, the schools have become fairly hostile toward our boys.



 





hwblyf
by Bronze Member on Aug. 22, 2013 at 1:23 PM


Our schools don't have the option to write anything personal.  The additional comments field is exclusively drop down menu.  Cuz all 600 kids at the school can have one of the same 12 comments applied unilaterally.  :(  My son's learning plan was drop down, too, including their action plan.  Why bother having a plan, then?  You know you have some options, use those.  I don't see how it's an individual plan, if it's basically cookie cutter, with the exception that you may have chosen some options and not others.  And the guys running the show (HA!) wonder why there's no independent thought.....

Quoting bluerooffarm:

 Since schools went to computerizing their entire gradebook, they added those drop down menus.  You can add comments of your own, but seriously few teachers do take the time for that personal touch.  BUT they will take time to write a paragraph about the child on the permanent record that gets passed to the teacher the next year so that the new teacher already has a pre-disposed idea of that child.  Growth and development over the summer?  Who cares.  They're still the same aggressive, disruptive, chaotic child they were last year, don't ya know?  *Sigh*

Quoting hwblyf:

Your soapbox is wholly appreciated!  And really, when has a label been truly helpful?  It allows you to see past the person to a set/fixed/determined definition.  I'm not saying that knowing certain things about someone (they have sensory issues, they're autistic, they have allergies so don't even talk to them when hayfever season is upon us, etc....) isn't helpful, but when that's how you present a person, that's what they see.  I've felt that more and more we just wanna cut to the chase and eliminate the personal touch.  Just give me a code, tell me what to do, it'll get done.  Our ps even went to having a drop down list for teacher comments about their student.  So instead of getting on a report card, "Noah's fine motor skills have improved and his enthusiasm for math is evident," they now do things like, "Learns well.  Listens to teacher.  Performs on grade level."  I can't help but wonder what all this "efficiency" is buying us.


Quoting bluerooffarm:


 



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