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Discipline, your opinion please...

Posted by on Aug. 28, 2013 at 7:26 PM
  • 31 Replies
1 mom liked this

My eldest, 11 years old.   Has been shirking her chores to the point where I've been out of socks for four days running.   She will go fetch a pair for me out of the dryer or I've worn old hospital booties.

Also, I set up a "sunrise system" for them to follow before school starts in the morning because they weren't doing basic hygiene, morning chore, music practice, etc...   She did great on day one, but after that has refused to use the flip cards and follow the system.   It would be ok if she were doing what needed done, but she still is only doing half of the stuff on it.

So...

Today, I had her write sentences for not brushing hair, not brushing teeth, and not practicing instrument.   She got 10 sentences each and broke down into a bawling fit (at 11) for having to write 30 sentences....  well, I also don't tolerate bawling fits unless there's a reasonable reason... (Best friend moved away, grandma got run over by reigndeer, dog ran away..etc.)   I don't think having to write 30 sentences is all that big of a deal and did NOT need a bawling fit.

So...

I have been having my 9 yr old son hold cans when he decides to throw bawling fits.  (they have to hold the cans straight out from their body for about 7 minutes...totally doable and I don't feel it's too much punnishment, but it's enough to put them in check to decide if the bawling fit is worth throwing or not.)   So, I had my 11 yr old do it today, and ok.. she served her time.

FFWD, we had choir and other events at which point I realized I was out of socks... so I tacked on ANOTHER 10 sentences for the fourth day of not having socks.   We ran to choir and stuff...

On the way home, kids wanted to watch TV and relax at home, I agree, but then remind 11 yr old of the sentences she still has to write....   She starts bawling all over again...

So,... we did cans AGAIN when we got home and now she is writing her sentences anyway while the younger kids are watching her favorite TV show...

My question is...   Do you think this discipline fits the crime, or am I being too easy with only 40 sentences for an 11 yr old.   What do you do when your kids do wrong and then throw really immature fits over their discipline.   Do you let them act up and get their "feelings out" or do you believe it's all manipulation attempts and either ignore it or discipline it?
 

by on Aug. 28, 2013 at 7:26 PM
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Replies (1-10):
TJandKarasMom
by Debbie on Aug. 28, 2013 at 7:57 PM
1 mom liked this

I cannot stand the bawling fits.  I send DD (10) to her room.  I remind her that when she is calm and can hold a conversation, we can discuss the issue.  She doesn't get to skip whatever the initial request/demand/chore/etc was, but she can calmly tell me why she hates it/thinks it isn't fair/etc. 

A friend pointed this out to me...at this age-girls are completely IRRATIONAL.  And she was spot on in that assessment.  DD has NO CONTROL over her emotions.  Her hormones are raging and she doesn't know how to deal with them.  My hope is that with puberty/onset of a menstrual cycle, she will at least be a bit more predictable in her irrationality and that it won't be so constant!  I don't know what to do half the time.  But she will throw a full blown tantrum over every. little. thing. 

I am not sure if you were too easy or hard on her, I think every kid is different.  I don't think that punishment would have worked for my DD, but nothing has yet so maybe I should try your method, lol.  I mostly take away privileges.  She wouldn't have gotten to watch tv at all, it probably would have been straight to bed (but in your case, sentences then straight to bed).  Often I feel bad and don't follow all the way through (like say I will take the iPod for a week, but after 4 days I let her have it back for a long car ride or something...I have to get better at that).

I guess I figure if they need to get their feelings out, they can go to their room or the basement to do that. It's not acceptable in the middle of learning or listening to mom, and not acceptable to use to avoid work.

Good luck, this age is HARD.  I think it's hard on the girls too, but boy is it hard on us moms, lol.

AutymsMommy
by Silver Member on Aug. 28, 2013 at 8:08 PM
3 moms liked this

Keep in mind that you asked :)

Caveat: I'm complete against using phycial punishment (including your "cans" method). I'm completely against (and find somewhat confusing) punishing for crying - period. I'm not a fan of using academics for punishment (great way to turn off enjoyment).

I do not find your consequences to be natural. What do sentences have to do with not doing her chores? Nothing. Hormones are running rampant in your 11 year old right now (ask me how I know - my daughter just turned 12, lol)... please remember that when you are punishing her for crying (what you consider "for no good reason" feels like a very good reason to her - don't discredit her emotions or you'll have a long road ahead of you).

Back to the consequences. Do you give an allowance for chores? If you do, there's a great natural consequence - taking away portions of allowance for jobs not done... beyond that, stay on top of her while she's doing them. Remind her that since she obviously isn't old enough to do them herself, she obviously needs you to stand over her while she does.

A more gentle method, and one I prefer, is to help her with the chores. Use it as a bonding experience... talk and joke while you do it. I promise that, at this age, the more you talk to them, the better later years will be for all of you.

I am a Home Schooling, Vaccinating, Non spanking, Nightmare Cuddling, Dessert Giving, Bedtime Kissing, Book Reading, Stay at Home Mom. I believe in the benefit of organized after school activities and nosy, involved parents. I believe in spoiling my children. I believe that I have seen the village and I do not want it anywhere near my children. Now for the controversial stuff:  we're Catholic, we're conservative, and we own guns (now there's no need to ask, lol).             Aimee















mommy4lyf
by on Aug. 28, 2013 at 8:14 PM
Totally agree.


Quoting AutymsMommy:

Keep in mind that you asked :)

Caveat: I'm complete against using phycial punishment (including your "cans" method). I'm completely against (and find somewhat confusing) punishing for crying - period. I'm not a fan of using academics for punishment (great way to turn off enjoyment).

I do not find your consequences to be natural. What do sentences have to do with not doing her chores? Nothing. Hormones are running rampant in your 11 year old right now (ask me how I know - my daughter just turned 12, lol)... please remember that when you are punishing her for crying (what you consider "for no good reason" feels like a very good reason to her - don't discredit her emotions or you'll have a long road ahead of you).

Back to the consequences. Do you give an allowance for chores? If you do, there's a great natural consequence - taking away portions of allowance for jobs not done... beyond that, stay on top of her while she's doing them. Remind her that since she obviously isn't old enough to do them herself, she obviously needs you to stand over her while she does.

A more gentle method, and one I prefer, is to help her with the chores. Use it as a bonding experience... talk and joke while you do it. I promise that, at this age, the more you talk to them, the better later years will be for all of you.


kirbymom
by Sonja on Aug. 28, 2013 at 8:19 PM
I can see where you are coming from but I have tried that method and fell flat on my face with it. When you use this method, how often does it work for you? Most of the time? Do you have to switch it up with another offense if the same method?


Quoting AutymsMommy:

Keep in mind that you asked :)

Caveat: I'm complete against using phycial punishment (including your "cans" method). I'm completely against (and find somewhat confusing) punishing for crying - period. I'm not a fan of using academics for punishment (great way to turn off enjoyment).

I do not find your consequences to be natural. What do sentences have to do with not doing her chores? Nothing. Hormones are running rampant in your 11 year old right now (ask me how I know - my daughter just turned 12, lol)... please remember that when you are punishing her for crying (what you consider "for no good reason" feels like a very good reason to her - don't discredit her emotions or you'll have a long road ahead of you).

Back to the consequences. Do you give an allowance for chores? If you do, there's a great natural consequence - taking away portions of allowance for jobs not done... beyond that, stay on top of her while she's doing them. Remind her that since she obviously isn't old enough to do them herself, she obviously needs you to stand over her while she does.

A more gentle method, and one I prefer, is to help her with the chores. Use it as a bonding experience... talk and joke while you do it. I promise that, at this age, the more you talk to them, the better later years will be for all of you.


AutymsMommy
by Silver Member on Aug. 28, 2013 at 8:25 PM
1 mom liked this


Which method? (I mentioned a couple)

I do not always use the same consequence - it completely depends on "the crime"... and the intent. By "intent" I mean is this something that slipped her mind because she was busy helping me otherwise (i.e. did she forget to take out the recycling because she was helping me with the younger boys?), did she decide not to do it just to piss me off, or... what? That decides IF THERE IS a consequence at all. The actual consequence needs to be as connected/natural to the crime as possible. For example, I'm not going to take away allowance because she was a bear at school - she doesn't get the allowance for doing well in school, so there's no connection.

Doesn't do her chores because she is too busy with her Ipad = Ipad gets taken away for a day.

Doesn't do her chores because she is busy helping otherwise = no consequence.

Doesn't do her chores because she is simply in a foul mood = "let's do them together kiddo. By the way, how's the book you're reading? Come tell me about it while we take the trash to the curb."

Quoting kirbymom:

I can see where you are coming from but I have tried that method and fell flat on my face with it. When you use this method, how often does it work for you? Most of the time? Do you have to switch it up with another offense if the same method?


Quoting AutymsMommy:

Keep in mind that you asked :)

Caveat: I'm complete against using phycial punishment (including your "cans" method). I'm completely against (and find somewhat confusing) punishing for crying - period. I'm not a fan of using academics for punishment (great way to turn off enjoyment).

I do not find your consequences to be natural. What do sentences have to do with not doing her chores? Nothing. Hormones are running rampant in your 11 year old right now (ask me how I know - my daughter just turned 12, lol)... please remember that when you are punishing her for crying (what you consider "for no good reason" feels like a very good reason to her - don't discredit her emotions or you'll have a long road ahead of you).

Back to the consequences. Do you give an allowance for chores? If you do, there's a great natural consequence - taking away portions of allowance for jobs not done... beyond that, stay on top of her while she's doing them. Remind her that since she obviously isn't old enough to do them herself, she obviously needs you to stand over her while she does.

A more gentle method, and one I prefer, is to help her with the chores. Use it as a bonding experience... talk and joke while you do it. I promise that, at this age, the more you talk to them, the better later years will be for all of you.




I am a Home Schooling, Vaccinating, Non spanking, Nightmare Cuddling, Dessert Giving, Bedtime Kissing, Book Reading, Stay at Home Mom. I believe in the benefit of organized after school activities and nosy, involved parents. I believe in spoiling my children. I believe that I have seen the village and I do not want it anywhere near my children. Now for the controversial stuff:  we're Catholic, we're conservative, and we own guns (now there's no need to ask, lol).             Aimee















TJandKarasMom
by Debbie on Aug. 28, 2013 at 8:58 PM
1 mom liked this

I think your methods are great.  But here's my question based on this part "Doesn't do her chores because she is simply in a foul mood"...

So if she is just in a bad mood and doesn't do chores, and you say "hey did you remember it's your night for the dishes?" and she stomps around yelling "why do I have to do *everything* around here?!" and then you remind her it's just her night and just one chore so she breaks out into a full blown tantrum....

This type of thing happens regularly around here, and your reaction to then spend time with her helping her doesn't seem like the right consequence to me.  I know she needs some attention, but during and soon after a tantrum isn't a good time to give it in my opinion.

So what would you do with this example?  I ask because I really think you are right with natural consequences and it sounds like your home may be a bit more peaceful than ours during this tween/preteen age.

Quoting AutymsMommy:


Which method? (I mentioned a couple)

I do not always use the same consequence - it completely depends on "the crime"... and the intent. By "intent" I mean is this something that slipped her mind because she was busy helping me otherwise (i.e. did she forget to take out the recycling because she was helping me with the younger boys?), did she decide not to do it just to piss me off, or... what? That decides IF THERE IS a consequence at all. The actual consequence needs to be as connected/natural to the crime as possible. For example, I'm not going to take away allowance because she was a bear at school - she doesn't get the allowance for doing well in school, so there's no connection.

Doesn't do her chores because she is too busy with her Ipad = Ipad gets taken away for a day.

Doesn't do her chores because she is busy helping otherwise = no consequence.

Doesn't do her chores because she is simply in a foul mood = "let's do them together kiddo. By the way, how's the book you're reading? Come tell me about it while we take the trash to the curb."

Quoting kirbymom:

I can see where you are coming from but I have tried that method and fell flat on my face with it. When you use this method, how often does it work for you? Most of the time? Do you have to switch it up with another offense if the same method?


Quoting AutymsMommy:

Keep in mind that you asked :)

Caveat: I'm complete against using phycial punishment (including your "cans" method). I'm completely against (and find somewhat confusing) punishing for crying - period. I'm not a fan of using academics for punishment (great way to turn off enjoyment).

I do not find your consequences to be natural. What do sentences have to do with not doing her chores? Nothing. Hormones are running rampant in your 11 year old right now (ask me how I know - my daughter just turned 12, lol)... please remember that when you are punishing her for crying (what you consider "for no good reason" feels like a very good reason to her - don't discredit her emotions or you'll have a long road ahead of you).

Back to the consequences. Do you give an allowance for chores? If you do, there's a great natural consequence - taking away portions of allowance for jobs not done... beyond that, stay on top of her while she's doing them. Remind her that since she obviously isn't old enough to do them herself, she obviously needs you to stand over her while she does.

A more gentle method, and one I prefer, is to help her with the chores. Use it as a bonding experience... talk and joke while you do it. I promise that, at this age, the more you talk to them, the better later years will be for all of you.






kirbymom
by Sonja on Aug. 28, 2013 at 9:08 PM
And these work? They take care of the discipline issues?




Quoting AutymsMommy:

Which method? (I mentioned a couple)

I do not always use the same consequence - it completely depends on "the crime"... and the intent. By "intent" I mean is this something that slipped her mind because she was busy helping me otherwise (i.e. did she forget to take out the recycling because she was helping me with the younger boys?), did she decide not to do it just to piss me off, or... what? That decides IF THERE IS a consequence at all. The actual consequence needs to be as connected/natural to the crime as possible. For example, I'm not going to take away allowance because she was a bear at school - she doesn't get the allowance for doing well in school, so there's no connection.

Doesn't do her chores because she is too busy with her Ipad = Ipad gets taken away for a day.

Doesn't do her chores because she is busy helping otherwise = no consequence.

Doesn't do her chores because she is simply in a foul mood = "let's do them together kiddo. By the way, how's the book you're reading? Come tell me about it while we take the trash to the curb."


Quoting kirbymom:I can see where you are coming from but I have tried that method and fell flat on my face with it. When you use this method, how often does it work for you? Most of the time? Do you have to switch it up with another offense if the same method?


Quoting AutymsMommy:

Keep in mind that you asked :)

Caveat: I'm complete against using phycial punishment (including your "cans" method). I'm completely against (and find somewhat confusing) punishing for crying - period. I'm not a fan of using academics for punishment (great way to turn off enjoyment).

I do not find your consequences to be natural. What do sentences have to do with not doing her chores? Nothing. Hormones are running rampant in your 11 year old right now (ask me how I know - my daughter just turned 12, lol)... please remember that when you are punishing her for crying (what you consider "for no good reason" feels like a very good reason to her - don't discredit her emotions or you'll have a long road ahead of you).

Back to the consequences. Do you give an allowance for chores? If you do, there's a great natural consequence - taking away portions of allowance for jobs not done... beyond that, stay on top of her while she's doing them. Remind her that since she obviously isn't old enough to do them herself, she obviously needs you to stand over her while she does.

A more gentle method, and one I prefer, is to help her with the chores. Use it as a bonding experience... talk and joke while you do it. I promise that, at this age, the more you talk to them, the better later years will be for all of you.





AutymsMommy
by Silver Member on Aug. 28, 2013 at 9:10 PM


I remember ME at that age. I sincerely felt like everyone was picking on me - it wasn't a tantrum... at that time in my life, it was sincerely felt (regardless of truth). That is a HARD age and yes, I would deal with it gently (more gently than I would at other ages)... because I remember what it was like to feel like noone heard me.

Often a foul mood can be handled with a hug and a few kind words. Yes, even when they're tantruming like a 2 year old (and hey, perk - it often works on 2 year olds too!).

When I'm in a foul mood and snappy with my husband, the very last thing he should do is reprimand me. No - he asks if there's something I want to talk about. Still foul? A hug and a dance around the living room works beautifully for me.

In the end, I can't expect more from my children than I expect from myself. How would I want to be treated if I felt like I was being treated unfairly (and yes, at this age, they do sincerely feel that way sometimes, no matter our intentions otherwise).

I'm not rewarding her by helping her; I'm recognizing that then, right at that moment, she needs me to be conscious of her. You'd be surprised what she's told me when a tantrum on her end is received with a hug on mine... sometimes everything just spills out (and sometimes that "spill" is that she needs more time with me or feels like I've been "picking" etc - things we can work on and she just didn't have the right words).

Don't get me wrong. I've yelled. I've sent her to her room. I'm not perfect on any level. But I do strive, in general, to be a non-punitive, more consciously guiding mother (when I keep my tongue in check, lol).

If it makes you guys feel any better, 12 is WAY better than 11, thus far.

Quoting TJandKarasMom:

I think your methods are great.  But here's my question based on this part "Doesn't do her chores because she is simply in a foul mood"...

So if she is just in a bad mood and doesn't do chores, and you say "hey did you remember it's your night for the dishes?" and she stomps around yelling "why do I have to do *everything* around here?!" and then you remind her it's just her night and just one chore so she breaks out into a full blown tantrum....

This type of thing happens regularly around here, and your reaction to then spend time with her helping her doesn't seem like the right consequence to me.  I know she needs some attention, but during and soon after a tantrum isn't a good time to give it in my opinion.

So what would you do with this example?  I ask because I really think you are right with natural consequences and it sounds like your home may be a bit more peaceful than ours during this tween/preteen age.

Quoting AutymsMommy:


Which method? (I mentioned a couple)

I do not always use the same consequence - it completely depends on "the crime"... and the intent. By "intent" I mean is this something that slipped her mind because she was busy helping me otherwise (i.e. did she forget to take out the recycling because she was helping me with the younger boys?), did she decide not to do it just to piss me off, or... what? That decides IF THERE IS a consequence at all. The actual consequence needs to be as connected/natural to the crime as possible. For example, I'm not going to take away allowance because she was a bear at school - she doesn't get the allowance for doing well in school, so there's no connection.

Doesn't do her chores because she is too busy with her Ipad = Ipad gets taken away for a day.

Doesn't do her chores because she is busy helping otherwise = no consequence.

Doesn't do her chores because she is simply in a foul mood = "let's do them together kiddo. By the way, how's the book you're reading? Come tell me about it while we take the trash to the curb."

Quoting kirbymom:

I can see where you are coming from but I have tried that method and fell flat on my face with it. When you use this method, how often does it work for you? Most of the time? Do you have to switch it up with another offense if the same method?


Quoting AutymsMommy:

Keep in mind that you asked :)

Caveat: I'm complete against using phycial punishment (including your "cans" method). I'm completely against (and find somewhat confusing) punishing for crying - period. I'm not a fan of using academics for punishment (great way to turn off enjoyment).

I do not find your consequences to be natural. What do sentences have to do with not doing her chores? Nothing. Hormones are running rampant in your 11 year old right now (ask me how I know - my daughter just turned 12, lol)... please remember that when you are punishing her for crying (what you consider "for no good reason" feels like a very good reason to her - don't discredit her emotions or you'll have a long road ahead of you).

Back to the consequences. Do you give an allowance for chores? If you do, there's a great natural consequence - taking away portions of allowance for jobs not done... beyond that, stay on top of her while she's doing them. Remind her that since she obviously isn't old enough to do them herself, she obviously needs you to stand over her while she does.

A more gentle method, and one I prefer, is to help her with the chores. Use it as a bonding experience... talk and joke while you do it. I promise that, at this age, the more you talk to them, the better later years will be for all of you.








I am a Home Schooling, Vaccinating, Non spanking, Nightmare Cuddling, Dessert Giving, Bedtime Kissing, Book Reading, Stay at Home Mom. I believe in the benefit of organized after school activities and nosy, involved parents. I believe in spoiling my children. I believe that I have seen the village and I do not want it anywhere near my children. Now for the controversial stuff:  we're Catholic, we're conservative, and we own guns (now there's no need to ask, lol).             Aimee















celticdragon77
by on Aug. 28, 2013 at 9:10 PM

I would never go without socks. I take care of my responsibilities. While doing so, I teach my children how to take care of themselves. I try to have a good attitude; patience, love, humor, and appreciation.

AutymsMommy
by Silver Member on Aug. 28, 2013 at 9:13 PM
1 mom liked this

For the most part. Of course, that was really only regarding chores. At times we've had to be more creative - like when dd was younger and there really weren't "natural" consequences for things like the lying stage she went through around 7 or 8 (she had to pay us when she lied - but we first set up a "tell the truth before I find out otherwise, and there will be minimal, if any, consequences rule); at that age it was too abstract an idea that when you lie nobody will trust you later, thus the creativity (she was attached to her allowance... buying those shaped wrist band things that were "in" at the time, lol).

Sincerely - at this age, a hug and a kind word can go SO far.


Quoting kirbymom:

And these work? They take care of the discipline issues?




Quoting AutymsMommy:


Which method? (I mentioned a couple)

I do not always use the same consequence - it completely depends on "the crime"... and the intent. By "intent" I mean is this something that slipped her mind because she was busy helping me otherwise (i.e. did she forget to take out the recycling because she was helping me with the younger boys?), did she decide not to do it just to piss me off, or... what? That decides IF THERE IS a consequence at all. The actual consequence needs to be as connected/natural to the crime as possible. For example, I'm not going to take away allowance because she was a bear at school - she doesn't get the allowance for doing well in school, so there's no connection.

Doesn't do her chores because she is too busy with her Ipad = Ipad gets taken away for a day.

Doesn't do her chores because she is busy helping otherwise = no consequence.

Doesn't do her chores because she is simply in a foul mood = "let's do them together kiddo. By the way, how's the book you're reading? Come tell me about it while we take the trash to the curb."


Quoting kirbymom:I can see where you are coming from but I have tried that method and fell flat on my face with it. When you use this method, how often does it work for you? Most of the time? Do you have to switch it up with another offense if the same method?


Quoting AutymsMommy:

Keep in mind that you asked :)

Caveat: I'm complete against using phycial punishment (including your "cans" method). I'm completely against (and find somewhat confusing) punishing for crying - period. I'm not a fan of using academics for punishment (great way to turn off enjoyment).

I do not find your consequences to be natural. What do sentences have to do with not doing her chores? Nothing. Hormones are running rampant in your 11 year old right now (ask me how I know - my daughter just turned 12, lol)... please remember that when you are punishing her for crying (what you consider "for no good reason" feels like a very good reason to her - don't discredit her emotions or you'll have a long road ahead of you).

Back to the consequences. Do you give an allowance for chores? If you do, there's a great natural consequence - taking away portions of allowance for jobs not done... beyond that, stay on top of her while she's doing them. Remind her that since she obviously isn't old enough to do them herself, she obviously needs you to stand over her while she does.

A more gentle method, and one I prefer, is to help her with the chores. Use it as a bonding experience... talk and joke while you do it. I promise that, at this age, the more you talk to them, the better later years will be for all of you.









I am a Home Schooling, Vaccinating, Non spanking, Nightmare Cuddling, Dessert Giving, Bedtime Kissing, Book Reading, Stay at Home Mom. I believe in the benefit of organized after school activities and nosy, involved parents. I believe in spoiling my children. I believe that I have seen the village and I do not want it anywhere near my children. Now for the controversial stuff:  we're Catholic, we're conservative, and we own guns (now there's no need to ask, lol).             Aimee















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