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Discipline, your opinion please...

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My eldest, 11 years old.   Has been shirking her chores to the point where I've been out of socks for four days running.   She will go fetch a pair for me out of the dryer or I've worn old hospital booties.

Also, I set up a "sunrise system" for them to follow before school starts in the morning because they weren't doing basic hygiene, morning chore, music practice, etc...   She did great on day one, but after that has refused to use the flip cards and follow the system.   It would be ok if she were doing what needed done, but she still is only doing half of the stuff on it.

So...

Today, I had her write sentences for not brushing hair, not brushing teeth, and not practicing instrument.   She got 10 sentences each and broke down into a bawling fit (at 11) for having to write 30 sentences....  well, I also don't tolerate bawling fits unless there's a reasonable reason... (Best friend moved away, grandma got run over by reigndeer, dog ran away..etc.)   I don't think having to write 30 sentences is all that big of a deal and did NOT need a bawling fit.

So...

I have been having my 9 yr old son hold cans when he decides to throw bawling fits.  (they have to hold the cans straight out from their body for about 7 minutes...totally doable and I don't feel it's too much punnishment, but it's enough to put them in check to decide if the bawling fit is worth throwing or not.)   So, I had my 11 yr old do it today, and ok.. she served her time.

FFWD, we had choir and other events at which point I realized I was out of socks... so I tacked on ANOTHER 10 sentences for the fourth day of not having socks.   We ran to choir and stuff...

On the way home, kids wanted to watch TV and relax at home, I agree, but then remind 11 yr old of the sentences she still has to write....   She starts bawling all over again...

So,... we did cans AGAIN when we got home and now she is writing her sentences anyway while the younger kids are watching her favorite TV show...

My question is...   Do you think this discipline fits the crime, or am I being too easy with only 40 sentences for an 11 yr old.   What do you do when your kids do wrong and then throw really immature fits over their discipline.   Do you let them act up and get their "feelings out" or do you believe it's all manipulation attempts and either ignore it or discipline it?
 

by on Aug. 28, 2013 at 7:26 PM
Replies (11-20):
AutymsMommy
by Silver Member on Aug. 28, 2013 at 10:50 PM

Just giving options  :D

And you're right, I don't really agree with a child being responsible for family laundry. Putting the laundry IN may only take 5 minutes, but folding and putting it away appropriately takes considerably longer, I imagine.

I digress - your kiddo.

(and you asked, lol!)

*hugs* It is a HARD age.


Quoting KrissyKC:

Thank you, I appreciate your opinion, and can see some real heart and reality there.    I know there are times, when I notice a bad attitude continuing or growing or think there may be something behind it... I will have a gentle conversation and work with her on other stuff.   I HAVE been able to get to peek into her heart in those moments.   I don't disagree that such an approach is important SOMETIMES.    

Reality discipline?  A lot of my other discipline IS reality based, but this one particular child doesn't care about most reactions to the "lazies"... she is just a head in the clouds type kid and would rather NOT go play with her friends if it means she has to do laundry first.  She'd just sit around and pick lint off herself and play with the lint... regardless of what she misses out on, it just doesn't matter enough to get her willing to do ANYTHING.   She's a major "you have to drag me every where I go" type kid.    

This is where, unfortunately, her chores aren't just to teach her a lesson.. but they are a household and family responsibility.   I realize some people feel that 11 yr olds don't need to be responsible for the family laundry.   But... the fact is, she is part of a family and with that comes both blessings and responsibilities.

(((side note:  we are all a little lazy, and I don't sort the wash... she just grabs the laundry and tosses it in the wash, adds soap, turns on machine, moves stuff into dryer, turns it on, brings up clean clothes and we all put our own away.... it's like a 5-10 minute job.   It's easier than doing dishes!)))
 






Quoting AutymsMommy:

Keep in mind that you asked :)

Caveat: I'm complete against using phycial punishment (including your "cans" method). I'm completely against (and find somewhat confusing) punishing for crying - period. I'm not a fan of using academics for punishment (great way to turn off enjoyment).

I do not find your consequences to be natural. What do sentences have to do with not doing her chores? Nothing. Hormones are running rampant in your 11 year old right now (ask me how I know - my daughter just turned 12, lol)... please remember that when you are punishing her for crying (what you consider "for no good reason" feels like a very good reason to her - don't discredit her emotions or you'll have a long road ahead of you).

Back to the consequences. Do you give an allowance for chores? If you do, there's a great natural consequence - taking away portions of allowance for jobs not done... beyond that, stay on top of her while she's doing them. Remind her that since she obviously isn't old enough to do them herself, she obviously needs you to stand over her while she does.

A more gentle method, and one I prefer, is to help her with the chores. Use it as a bonding experience... talk and joke while you do it. I promise that, at this age, the more you talk to them, the better later years will be for all of you.





I am a Home Schooling, Vaccinating, Non spanking, Nightmare Cuddling, Dessert Giving, Bedtime Kissing, Book Reading, Stay at Home Mom. I believe in the benefit of organized after school activities and nosy, involved parents. I believe in spoiling my children. I believe that I have seen the village and I do not want it anywhere near my children. Now for the controversial stuff:  we're Catholic, we're conservative, and we own guns (now there's no need to ask, lol).             Aimee















paganbaby
by Silver Member on Aug. 28, 2013 at 11:13 PM
1 mom liked this

With my dd, sometimes I have to follow her around and make sure she does her chores just like I would the younger ones. Also I don't punish for crying. I may tell them to cry in their room and come out when their done but that's it. Brushing hair I would let go. It's her hair, she can keep it messy. Teeth are a must though. Instument? I would let go but if it's something that's very important to you then just supervise her while she does it but keep in mind, not everyone has a passion for music. If it's really an issue for her, maybe you could think about replacing it with something more enjoyable?

KrissyKC
by Silver Member on Aug. 28, 2013 at 11:13 PM

Thank you, I appreciate your opinion, and can see some real heart and reality there.    

However, what do you do when you physically CAN'T do their chore with them every time?  I can sometimes, but the reason I give her that responsibility is because I need her help.    I really need my children (age appropriately) to chip in and be a part of the family.

Side note::::     We made laundry as painless as possible (it's a 5 minute job 2-4 times a day)...  cold water, no sorting, everyone puts away their own stuff and brings their own stuff down to BE washed.  She just literally has to put them in the machines and on everyone's beds when they are done.   I don't even ask her to turn them right side out or check pockets because they all know they have to do that BEFORE putting it in the hamper.    

Regarding making her write:   It's the only discipline that has ever worked on her.   I really prefer reality discipline, too.   However, for reality discipline to work, the child has to feel the results are worse than the action.   For example, if she had the choice right now... (do the laundry or miss out on every activity this week, don't get ANY electronics, and go to bed an hour early every night) she would get excited about not having to do the laundry and go read a book.



Quoting AutymsMommy:

Keep in mind that you asked :)

Caveat: I'm complete against using phycial punishment (including your "cans" method). I'm completely against (and find somewhat confusing) punishing for crying - period. I'm not a fan of using academics for punishment (great way to turn off enjoyment).

I do not find your consequences to be natural. What do sentences have to do with not doing her chores? Nothing. Hormones are running rampant in your 11 year old right now (ask me how I know - my daughter just turned 12, lol)... please remember that when you are punishing her for crying (what you consider "for no good reason" feels like a very good reason to her - don't discredit her emotions or you'll have a long road ahead of you).

Back to the consequences. Do you give an allowance for chores? If you do, there's a great natural consequence - taking away portions of allowance for jobs not done... beyond that, stay on top of her while she's doing them. Remind her that since she obviously isn't old enough to do them herself, she obviously needs you to stand over her while she does.

A more gentle method, and one I prefer, is to help her with the chores. Use it as a bonding experience... talk and joke while you do it. I promise that, at this age, the more you talk to them, the better later years will be for all of you.




kirbymom
by Sonja on Aug. 28, 2013 at 11:15 PM
Well, thank you for sharing what you do. I appreciate it.


Quoting AutymsMommy:

For the most part. Of course, that was really only regarding chores. At times we've had to be more creative - like when dd was younger and there really weren't "natural" consequences for things like the lying stage she went through around 7 or 8 (she had to pay us when she lied - but we first set up a "tell the truth before I find out otherwise, and there will be minimal, if any, consequences rule); at that age it was too abstract an idea that when you lie nobody will trust you later, thus the creativity (she was attached to her allowance... buying those shaped wrist band things that were "in" at the time, lol).

Sincerely - at this age, a hug and a kind word can go SO far.


Quoting kirbymom:And these work? They take care of the discipline issues?




Quoting AutymsMommy:

Which method? (I mentioned a couple)

I do not always use the same consequence - it completely depends on "the crime"... and the intent. By "intent" I mean is this something that slipped her mind because she was busy helping me otherwise (i.e. did she forget to take out the recycling because she was helping me with the younger boys?), did she decide not to do it just to piss me off, or... what? That decides IF THERE IS a consequence at all. The actual consequence needs to be as connected/natural to the crime as possible. For example, I'm not going to take away allowance because she was a bear at school - she doesn't get the allowance for doing well in school, so there's no connection.

Doesn't do her chores because she is too busy with her Ipad = Ipad gets taken away for a day.

Doesn't do her chores because she is busy helping otherwise = no consequence.

Doesn't do her chores because she is simply in a foul mood = "let's do them together kiddo. By the way, how's the book you're reading? Come tell me about it while we take the trash to the curb."


Quoting kirbymom:I can see where you are coming from but I have tried that method and fell flat on my face with it. When you use this method, how often does it work for you? Most of the time? Do you have to switch it up with another offense if the same method?


Quoting AutymsMommy:

Keep in mind that you asked :)

Caveat: I'm complete against using phycial punishment (including your "cans" method). I'm completely against (and find somewhat confusing) punishing for crying - period. I'm not a fan of using academics for punishment (great way to turn off enjoyment).

I do not find your consequences to be natural. What do sentences have to do with not doing her chores? Nothing. Hormones are running rampant in your 11 year old right now (ask me how I know - my daughter just turned 12, lol)... please remember that when you are punishing her for crying (what you consider "for no good reason" feels like a very good reason to her - don't discredit her emotions or you'll have a long road ahead of you).

Back to the consequences. Do you give an allowance for chores? If you do, there's a great natural consequence - taking away portions of allowance for jobs not done... beyond that, stay on top of her while she's doing them. Remind her that since she obviously isn't old enough to do them herself, she obviously needs you to stand over her while she does.

A more gentle method, and one I prefer, is to help her with the chores. Use it as a bonding experience... talk and joke while you do it. I promise that, at this age, the more you talk to them, the better later years will be for all of you.






Oh sheesh! I'm Sorry. I didn't mean to sound so abrupt.
KrissyKC
by Silver Member on Aug. 28, 2013 at 11:16 PM

Oh, she doesn't have to fold it and put it away.  Everyone is responsible for their own clothes.   The only thing that's asked is if some one isn't home to take care of their own clothes, she shake it out, lay it somewhat flat on their bed (they can put it away when they get back)...

So, yes, how we do it, it's about a 5 minute job.... POSSIBLY 10... but usually not.


Quoting AutymsMommy:

Just giving options  :D

And you're right, I don't really agree with a child being responsible for family laundry. Putting the laundry IN may only take 5 minutes, but folding and putting it away appropriately takes considerably longer, I imagine.

I digress - your kiddo.

(and you asked, lol!)

*hugs* It is a HARD age.


Quoting KrissyKC:

Thank you, I appreciate your opinion, and can see some real heart and reality there.    I know there are times, when I notice a bad attitude continuing or growing or think there may be something behind it... I will have a gentle conversation and work with her on other stuff.   I HAVE been able to get to peek into her heart in those moments.   I don't disagree that such an approach is important SOMETIMES.    

Reality discipline?  A lot of my other discipline IS reality based, but this one particular child doesn't care about most reactions to the "lazies"... she is just a head in the clouds type kid and would rather NOT go play with her friends if it means she has to do laundry first.  She'd just sit around and pick lint off herself and play with the lint... regardless of what she misses out on, it just doesn't matter enough to get her willing to do ANYTHING.   She's a major "you have to drag me every where I go" type kid.    

This is where, unfortunately, her chores aren't just to teach her a lesson.. but they are a household and family responsibility.   I realize some people feel that 11 yr olds don't need to be responsible for the family laundry.   But... the fact is, she is part of a family and with that comes both blessings and responsibilities.

(((side note:  we are all a little lazy, and I don't sort the wash... she just grabs the laundry and tosses it in the wash, adds soap, turns on machine, moves stuff into dryer, turns it on, brings up clean clothes and we all put our own away.... it's like a 5-10 minute job.   It's easier than doing dishes!)))
 






Quoting AutymsMommy:

Keep in mind that you asked :)

Caveat: I'm complete against using phycial punishment (including your "cans" method). I'm completely against (and find somewhat confusing) punishing for crying - period. I'm not a fan of using academics for punishment (great way to turn off enjoyment).

I do not find your consequences to be natural. What do sentences have to do with not doing her chores? Nothing. Hormones are running rampant in your 11 year old right now (ask me how I know - my daughter just turned 12, lol)... please remember that when you are punishing her for crying (what you consider "for no good reason" feels like a very good reason to her - don't discredit her emotions or you'll have a long road ahead of you).

Back to the consequences. Do you give an allowance for chores? If you do, there's a great natural consequence - taking away portions of allowance for jobs not done... beyond that, stay on top of her while she's doing them. Remind her that since she obviously isn't old enough to do them herself, she obviously needs you to stand over her while she does.

A more gentle method, and one I prefer, is to help her with the chores. Use it as a bonding experience... talk and joke while you do it. I promise that, at this age, the more you talk to them, the better later years will be for all of you.







KrissyKC
by Silver Member on Aug. 28, 2013 at 11:18 PM

For some reason, it accidentally posted my reply as I was rewriting it, so that's why there was a similar second reply... LOL!   I'm not good at getting my thoughts down sometimes, and I must have accidentally hit enter the first time.  I tried deleting it when I noticed it, sorry for the confusion.


MammaG08
by Member on Aug. 29, 2013 at 7:36 AM
1 mom liked this

Hi Krissy,

Boy, she is really giving you a tough time!  I don't think 40 sentences is too easy, since she is throwing a fit for having to do them.  Was she so upset that she wasn't watching tv with her brothers and sisters, or that you made her write the sentences?  Have you ever heard of a book called "LOVE AND LOGIC?"  I believe the authors last name is Fay (Jim or Tim).  Anyway, I read the one for teachers when I was in school, and it was really good.  Talk about disciplining children the logical way with natural consequences.  Anyway, they have one for parents too, and I have heard it is also very good.  Just remember, you are an awesome mom and teacher! 

Leissaintexas
by Bronze Member on Aug. 29, 2013 at 9:02 AM

My kids do their own laundry, natural consequences for not doing htat is to just have no clean clothes. I wouldn't have punished her for the crying. I would have asked her to leave the room and do it somewhere else, but I wouldn't have punished her for it. Tween girls are prone to sudden and unexplained emotional outbursts! 

SusanTheWriter
by Bronze Member on Aug. 29, 2013 at 9:05 AM

It is REALLY tough to discipline a child who has no buttons to push. DD was that way, too. I don't even have any advice, other than to say, "This, too, shall pass." (((hugs)))

oredeb
by on Aug. 29, 2013 at 9:42 AM

 hi  krissy!!

in our home,  after they go through the process of acting out  and getting their feelings out , they get a spanking, then we talk about the fit , not doing a chore gets not doing the fun stuff till the chores are done, repeated offence i tack on someones elses chore,

if your dicipline works for your child do it, dont let anyone tell you its wrong, we all have different ways and it doesnt mean any of us are wrong or right. 

also what helps us is not ignoring the fit or chore thing(thinking its cute), keeping consistant on any punishment when the problem happens  and talking about it with child

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