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Discipline, your opinion please...

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My eldest, 11 years old.   Has been shirking her chores to the point where I've been out of socks for four days running.   She will go fetch a pair for me out of the dryer or I've worn old hospital booties.

Also, I set up a "sunrise system" for them to follow before school starts in the morning because they weren't doing basic hygiene, morning chore, music practice, etc...   She did great on day one, but after that has refused to use the flip cards and follow the system.   It would be ok if she were doing what needed done, but she still is only doing half of the stuff on it.

So...

Today, I had her write sentences for not brushing hair, not brushing teeth, and not practicing instrument.   She got 10 sentences each and broke down into a bawling fit (at 11) for having to write 30 sentences....  well, I also don't tolerate bawling fits unless there's a reasonable reason... (Best friend moved away, grandma got run over by reigndeer, dog ran away..etc.)   I don't think having to write 30 sentences is all that big of a deal and did NOT need a bawling fit.

So...

I have been having my 9 yr old son hold cans when he decides to throw bawling fits.  (they have to hold the cans straight out from their body for about 7 minutes...totally doable and I don't feel it's too much punnishment, but it's enough to put them in check to decide if the bawling fit is worth throwing or not.)   So, I had my 11 yr old do it today, and ok.. she served her time.

FFWD, we had choir and other events at which point I realized I was out of socks... so I tacked on ANOTHER 10 sentences for the fourth day of not having socks.   We ran to choir and stuff...

On the way home, kids wanted to watch TV and relax at home, I agree, but then remind 11 yr old of the sentences she still has to write....   She starts bawling all over again...

So,... we did cans AGAIN when we got home and now she is writing her sentences anyway while the younger kids are watching her favorite TV show...

My question is...   Do you think this discipline fits the crime, or am I being too easy with only 40 sentences for an 11 yr old.   What do you do when your kids do wrong and then throw really immature fits over their discipline.   Do you let them act up and get their "feelings out" or do you believe it's all manipulation attempts and either ignore it or discipline it?
 

by on Aug. 28, 2013 at 7:26 PM
Replies (21-30):
AutymsMommy
by Silver Member on Aug. 29, 2013 at 10:19 AM

To be fair, she asked for opinions (directly). She seems to be open to constructive criticism and advice.


Quoting oredeb:

 hi  krissy!!

in our home,  after they go through the process of acting out  and getting their feelings out , they get a spanking, then we talk about the fit , not doing a chore gets not doing the fun stuff till the chores are done, repeated offence i tack on someones elses chore,

if your dicipline works for your child do it, dont let anyone tell you its wrong, we all have different ways and it doesnt mean any of us are wrong or right. 

also what helps us is not ignoring the fit or chore thing(thinking its cute), keeping consistant on any punishment when the problem happens  and talking about it with child



I am a Home Schooling, Vaccinating, Non spanking, Nightmare Cuddling, Dessert Giving, Bedtime Kissing, Book Reading, Stay at Home Mom. I believe in the benefit of organized after school activities and nosy, involved parents. I believe in spoiling my children. I believe that I have seen the village and I do not want it anywhere near my children. Now for the controversial stuff:  we're Catholic, we're conservative, and we own guns (now there's no need to ask, lol).             Aimee















KrissyKC
by Silver Member on Aug. 29, 2013 at 10:24 AM

I can't follow her around.   I have morning chores and such scheduled as part of their independent activitiy while I teach the kindergartener.   They are all the type of learners that need constant teacher interaction.

It's impossible to set them up where they can study independently or do their work without major distractions.   So, I'm teaching three VERY different levels (my eldest is 6th-8th level on stuff, next is a flat 4th grader with elevated reading, and my third is a struggling ADHD oppositional Kindy,)... THEN i have 15 month old toddler that needs me too.

I will consider what you said about music, but she WANTS to play the violin.   She's always asking her teachers at church if she can bring it in and play... she loves the times when we can afford and have a private tutor for her...  etc.   She just puts the same lack of effort into everything in her life and I don't know how to work with that.   You can't force motivation in some one.    There are times, you just discipline repeatedly and hope that one day she wakes up and wants to try.


Quoting paganbaby:

With my dd, sometimes I have to follow her around and make sure she does her chores just like I would the younger ones. Also I don't punish for crying. I may tell them to cry in their room and come out when their done but that's it. Brushing hair I would let go. It's her hair, she can keep it messy. Teeth are a must though. Instument? I would let go but if it's something that's very important to you then just supervise her while she does it but keep in mind, not everyone has a passion for music. If it's really an issue for her, maybe you could think about replacing it with something more enjoyable?



KrissyKC
by Silver Member on Aug. 29, 2013 at 10:33 AM

Yes, I did, and I appreciate them.  

I am always second guessing myself because I grew up in an abusive home and didn't have a very good example of how to raise kids.   My DH is not consistent in his parenting, and I have had absolutely NO ONE to learn from or get advice from.    Some days I feel like I'm really doing such a lousy job... yet others I'm much more confident of what I'm doing.

So, yes, I appreciate the opinions and knowing how other moms do things.


Quoting AutymsMommy:

To be fair, she asked for opinions (directly). She seems to be open to constructive criticism and advice.


Quoting oredeb:

 hi  krissy!!

in our home,  after they go through the process of acting out  and getting their feelings out , they get a spanking, then we talk about the fit , not doing a chore gets not doing the fun stuff till the chores are done, repeated offence i tack on someones elses chore,

if your dicipline works for your child do it, dont let anyone tell you its wrong, we all have different ways and it doesnt mean any of us are wrong or right. 

also what helps us is not ignoring the fit or chore thing(thinking its cute), keeping consistant on any punishment when the problem happens  and talking about it with child





AutymsMommy
by Silver Member on Aug. 29, 2013 at 10:36 AM
1 mom liked this

My father grew up in an abusive home as well and I know (now) that it affected the way he parented - he was hell bent on not making the same decisions/mistakes.

You are far from abusive Krissy. I'm not a fan of your methods, but you care deeply about your children and that's evident in how much you struggle with how to effectively discipline them WHILE ensuring they have a strong bond with you. If you didn't care, you wouldn't feel like this.

All of us are doing a lousy job with SOMETHING. We'll all screw up our kids in SOME way. I think God wants to ensure our children have something to complain to Him about, lol.


Quoting KrissyKC:

Yes, I did, and I appreciate them.  

I am always second guessing myself because I grew up in an abusive home and didn't have a very good example of how to raise kids.   My DH is not consistent in his parenting, and I have had absolutely NO ONE to learn from or get advice from.    Some days I feel like I'm really doing such a lousy job... yet others I'm much more confident of what I'm doing.

So, yes, I appreciate the opinions and knowing how other moms do things.


Quoting AutymsMommy:

To be fair, she asked for opinions (directly). She seems to be open to constructive criticism and advice.


Quoting oredeb:

 hi  krissy!!

in our home,  after they go through the process of acting out  and getting their feelings out , they get a spanking, then we talk about the fit , not doing a chore gets not doing the fun stuff till the chores are done, repeated offence i tack on someones elses chore,

if your dicipline works for your child do it, dont let anyone tell you its wrong, we all have different ways and it doesnt mean any of us are wrong or right. 

also what helps us is not ignoring the fit or chore thing(thinking its cute), keeping consistant on any punishment when the problem happens  and talking about it with child







I am a Home Schooling, Vaccinating, Non spanking, Nightmare Cuddling, Dessert Giving, Bedtime Kissing, Book Reading, Stay at Home Mom. I believe in the benefit of organized after school activities and nosy, involved parents. I believe in spoiling my children. I believe that I have seen the village and I do not want it anywhere near my children. Now for the controversial stuff:  we're Catholic, we're conservative, and we own guns (now there's no need to ask, lol).             Aimee















AutymsMommy
by Silver Member on Aug. 29, 2013 at 10:37 AM


Natural consequence.

If she doesn't practice at home, you aren't paying for her lessons. If she sincerely wants to do the lessons, she'll shape up - if she doesn't really want them, you aren't wasting time, energy, and money.

Quoting KrissyKC:

I can't follow her around.   I have morning chores and such scheduled as part of their independent activitiy while I teach the kindergartener.   They are all the type of learners that need constant teacher interaction.

It's impossible to set them up where they can study independently or do their work without major distractions.   So, I'm teaching three VERY different levels (my eldest is 6th-8th level on stuff, next is a flat 4th grader with elevated reading, and my third is a struggling ADHD oppositional Kindy,)... THEN i have 15 month old toddler that needs me too.

I will consider what you said about music, but she WANTS to play the violin.   She's always asking her teachers at church if she can bring it in and play... she loves the times when we can afford and have a private tutor for her...  etc.   She just puts the same lack of effort into everything in her life and I don't know how to work with that.   You can't force motivation in some one.    There are times, you just discipline repeatedly and hope that one day she wakes up and wants to try.


Quoting paganbaby:

With my dd, sometimes I have to follow her around and make sure she does her chores just like I would the younger ones. Also I don't punish for crying. I may tell them to cry in their room and come out when their done but that's it. Brushing hair I would let go. It's her hair, she can keep it messy. Teeth are a must though. Instument? I would let go but if it's something that's very important to you then just supervise her while she does it but keep in mind, not everyone has a passion for music. If it's really an issue for her, maybe you could think about replacing it with something more enjoyable?





I am a Home Schooling, Vaccinating, Non spanking, Nightmare Cuddling, Dessert Giving, Bedtime Kissing, Book Reading, Stay at Home Mom. I believe in the benefit of organized after school activities and nosy, involved parents. I believe in spoiling my children. I believe that I have seen the village and I do not want it anywhere near my children. Now for the controversial stuff:  we're Catholic, we're conservative, and we own guns (now there's no need to ask, lol).             Aimee















SusanTheWriter
by on Aug. 29, 2013 at 10:43 AM
2 moms liked this

LOL. When my kids complain, I tell them that at least they'll have something to tell their therapists when they grow up. *gg*

irvinehiker
by Andrea on Aug. 29, 2013 at 10:49 AM

Some days I disagree with you but when it comes to discipline, you are RIGHT ON.  I totally agree with your methods and have been using similar methods with my family for quite some time.  I admit there are days that I make a mistake and become authoritive and yell and every time it bites in the butt.  The gentle, less punitive methods are much, much more effective in building good character in the child. 

Quoting AutymsMommy:

Keep in mind that you asked :)

Caveat: I'm complete against using phycial punishment (including your "cans" method). I'm completely against (and find somewhat confusing) punishing for crying - period. I'm not a fan of using academics for punishment (great way to turn off enjoyment).

I do not find your consequences to be natural. What do sentences have to do with not doing her chores? Nothing. Hormones are running rampant in your 11 year old right now (ask me how I know - my daughter just turned 12, lol)... please remember that when you are punishing her for crying (what you consider "for no good reason" feels like a very good reason to her - don't discredit her emotions or you'll have a long road ahead of you).

Back to the consequences. Do you give an allowance for chores? If you do, there's a great natural consequence - taking away portions of allowance for jobs not done... beyond that, stay on top of her while she's doing them. Remind her that since she obviously isn't old enough to do them herself, she obviously needs you to stand over her while she does.

A more gentle method, and one I prefer, is to help her with the chores. Use it as a bonding experience... talk and joke while you do it. I promise that, at this age, the more you talk to them, the better later years will be for all of you.


KrissyKC
by Silver Member on Aug. 29, 2013 at 10:52 AM
1 mom liked this

That's part of the problem, though, we can't always afford private lessons for them, so they get them for a time (4-8 months) and then we take a break and ask them to practice what they learned and then we do them again after a break....    

I asked them if they would like to change instruments and join homeschool band next year instead.   It's as cheap as they can possible make it (this band) and the biggest cost would be getting them instruments.  We could handle that once.. .just not an ongoing high cost.  We thought that we could let them buy an instrument they are interested in at Christmas and pay for about 5 months of private lessons, and then next year, they could start band.   I think they would be more motivated because of having a group of other kids and an instructor.

They seem interested, but we have to discuss the commitment first and the expectations if this is what they want.   They can opt out if they want, too.



Quoting AutymsMommy:


Natural consequence.

If she doesn't practice at home, you aren't paying for her lessons. If she sincerely wants to do the lessons, she'll shape up - if she doesn't really want them, you aren't wasting time, energy, and money.

Quoting KrissyKC:

I can't follow her around.   I have morning chores and such scheduled as part of their independent activitiy while I teach the kindergartener.   They are all the type of learners that need constant teacher interaction.

It's impossible to set them up where they can study independently or do their work without major distractions.   So, I'm teaching three VERY different levels (my eldest is 6th-8th level on stuff, next is a flat 4th grader with elevated reading, and my third is a struggling ADHD oppositional Kindy,)... THEN i have 15 month old toddler that needs me too.

I will consider what you said about music, but she WANTS to play the violin.   She's always asking her teachers at church if she can bring it in and play... she loves the times when we can afford and have a private tutor for her...  etc.   She just puts the same lack of effort into everything in her life and I don't know how to work with that.   You can't force motivation in some one.    There are times, you just discipline repeatedly and hope that one day she wakes up and wants to try.


Quoting paganbaby:

With my dd, sometimes I have to follow her around and make sure she does her chores just like I would the younger ones. Also I don't punish for crying. I may tell them to cry in their room and come out when their done but that's it. Brushing hair I would let go. It's her hair, she can keep it messy. Teeth are a must though. Instument? I would let go but if it's something that's very important to you then just supervise her while she does it but keep in mind, not everyone has a passion for music. If it's really an issue for her, maybe you could think about replacing it with something more enjoyable?







paganbaby
by Silver Member on Aug. 29, 2013 at 10:57 AM

Gotcha. I homeschooled all three of mine this summer so I understand.

Hmmm...well in that case I still stand by not punishing for crying and letting her have messy hair. But a clean body, clean teeth and clean clothes are a must. Do you offer rewards for accomplishing independent tasks? I do a point system where each point is worth .2 for my son, my 6yo dd earns a trip to chuck e cheese and my 13yo earns a pedicure. You could try something like that. But other than that, I'm going to say punishment as a last resort is the way to go. These are things that need to be done and she needs to understand that.

Quoting KrissyKC:

I can't follow her around.   I have morning chores and such scheduled as part of their independent activitiy while I teach the kindergartener.   They are all the type of learners that need constant teacher interaction.

It's impossible to set them up where they can study independently or do their work without major distractions.   So, I'm teaching three VERY different levels (my eldest is 6th-8th level on stuff, next is a flat 4th grader with elevated reading, and my third is a struggling ADHD oppositional Kindy,)... THEN i have 15 month old toddler that needs me too.

I will consider what you said about music, but she WANTS to play the violin.   She's always asking her teachers at church if she can bring it in and play... she loves the times when we can afford and have a private tutor for her...  etc.   She just puts the same lack of effort into everything in her life and I don't know how to work with that.   You can't force motivation in some one.    There are times, you just discipline repeatedly and hope that one day she wakes up and wants to try.


Quoting paganbaby:

With my dd, sometimes I have to follow her around and make sure she does her chores just like I would the younger ones. Also I don't punish for crying. I may tell them to cry in their room and come out when their done but that's it. Brushing hair I would let go. It's her hair, she can keep it messy. Teeth are a must though. Instument? I would let go but if it's something that's very important to you then just supervise her while she does it but keep in mind, not everyone has a passion for music. If it's really an issue for her, maybe you could think about replacing it with something more enjoyable?




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TJandKarasMom
by Debbie on Aug. 29, 2013 at 11:16 AM
I felt the same way at that age oftentimes. So thanks for that reminder. And the same thing with my husband, you're right, if I am annoyed then him snapping at me isn't going to help. It's not easy to want to hug her when she is screaming about how much she hates me, but sometimes it's very obvious to me that that is what she needs in that moment. And I do try. A lot of times I will say "I don't know why you are so upset right now, but I can see you need XYZ. Take a deep breath". I try, but I yell too. And it's really hard when there is a tantrum over every little thing.

I'm glad 12 gets better, but we just hit 10 this summer! I am really hoping getting to spend all day with her and being able to teach her in a way she can learn will help reduce the meltdowns and help us become closer. Since she won't be exhausted from 8 hours of anxiety and fear all day, then have me telling her a million things she has to get done after school...I am hoping we can omit at least some of the tantrums.


Quoting AutymsMommy:


I remember ME at that age. I sincerely felt like everyone was picking on me - it wasn't a tantrum... at that time in my life, it was sincerely felt (regardless of truth). That is a HARD age and yes, I would deal with it gently (more gently than I would at other ages)... because I remember what it was like to feel like noone heard me.

Often a foul mood can be handled with a hug and a few kind words. Yes, even when they're tantruming like a 2 year old (and hey, perk - it often works on 2 year olds too!).

When I'm in a foul mood and snappy with my husband, the very last thing he should do is reprimand me. No - he asks if there's something I want to talk about. Still foul? A hug and a dance around the living room works beautifully for me.

In the end, I can't expect more from my children than I expect from myself. How would I want to be treated if I felt like I was being treated unfairly (and yes, at this age, they do sincerely feel that way sometimes, no matter our intentions otherwise).

I'm not rewarding her by helping her; I'm recognizing that then, right at that moment, she needs me to be conscious of her. You'd be surprised what she's told me when a tantrum on her end is received with a hug on mine... sometimes everything just spills out (and sometimes that "spill" is that she needs more time with me or feels like I've been "picking" etc - things we can work on and she just didn't have the right words).

Don't get me wrong. I've yelled. I've sent her to her room. I'm not perfect on any level. But I do strive, in general, to be a non-punitive, more consciously guiding mother (when I keep my tongue in check, lol).

If it makes you guys feel any better, 12 is WAY better than 11, thus far.


Quoting TJandKarasMom:

I think your methods are great.  But here's my question based on this part "Doesn't do her chores because she is simply in a foul mood"...

So if she is just in a bad mood and doesn't do chores, and you say "hey did you remember it's your night for the dishes?" and she stomps around yelling "why do I have to do *everything* around here?!" and then you remind her it's just her night and just one chore so she breaks out into a full blown tantrum....

This type of thing happens regularly around here, and your reaction to then spend time with her helping her doesn't seem like the right consequence to me.  I know she needs some attention, but during and soon after a tantrum isn't a good time to give it in my opinion.

So what would you do with this example?  I ask because I really think you are right with natural consequences and it sounds like your home may be a bit more peaceful than ours during this tween/preteen age.


Quoting AutymsMommy:


Which method? (I mentioned a couple)

I do not always use the same consequence - it completely depends on "the crime"... and the intent. By "intent" I mean is this something that slipped her mind because she was busy helping me otherwise (i.e. did she forget to take out the recycling because she was helping me with the younger boys?), did she decide not to do it just to piss me off, or... what? That decides IF THERE IS a consequence at all. The actual consequence needs to be as connected/natural to the crime as possible. For example, I'm not going to take away allowance because she was a bear at school - she doesn't get the allowance for doing well in school, so there's no connection.

Doesn't do her chores because she is too busy with her Ipad = Ipad gets taken away for a day.

Doesn't do her chores because she is busy helping otherwise = no consequence.

Doesn't do her chores because she is simply in a foul mood = "let's do them together kiddo. By the way, how's the book you're reading? Come tell me about it while we take the trash to the curb."


Quoting kirbymom:

I can see where you are coming from but I have tried that method and fell flat on my face with it. When you use this method, how often does it work for you? Most of the time? Do you have to switch it up with another offense if the same method?





Quoting AutymsMommy:

Keep in mind that you asked :)

Caveat: I'm complete against using phycial punishment (including your "cans" method). I'm completely against (and find somewhat confusing) punishing for crying - period. I'm not a fan of using academics for punishment (great way to turn off enjoyment).

I do not find your consequences to be natural. What do sentences have to do with not doing her chores? Nothing. Hormones are running rampant in your 11 year old right now (ask me how I know - my daughter just turned 12, lol)... please remember that when you are punishing her for crying (what you consider "for no good reason" feels like a very good reason to her - don't discredit her emotions or you'll have a long road ahead of you).

Back to the consequences. Do you give an allowance for chores? If you do, there's a great natural consequence - taking away portions of allowance for jobs not done... beyond that, stay on top of her while she's doing them. Remind her that since she obviously isn't old enough to do them herself, she obviously needs you to stand over her while she does.

A more gentle method, and one I prefer, is to help her with the chores. Use it as a bonding experience... talk and joke while you do it. I promise that, at this age, the more you talk to them, the better later years will be for all of you.












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