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Just looking to see what other people's opinions are....

What is an expert and what do they do?

What makes them an expert?

  

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by on Oct. 3, 2013 at 8:43 PM
Replies (21-30):
AutymsMommy
by Silver Member on Oct. 4, 2013 at 1:59 PM
1 mom liked this

I don't understand exactly. Do you mean, would I continue a course of treatment that was making my child uncomfortable and seemingly more ill, and continue to trust that medical advice? Yes, probably - assuming I had done enough research of my own on the doctor and he/she had a proven track record. My son's surgeries were excruciating and required starvation on some level, before he could undergo certain procedures. It was heartbreaking for me to watch; to hear him begging for something to drink or eat and at that tender age not being able to give him that - to watch him so broken from pain that he just looked blankly at the wall. His procedures couldn't/didn't stop because he was terrified or hurting and yes, I trusted the medical advice that we had to carry on, regardless of him seeming more ill and in more pain, if we wanted him to live and live somewhat normally. Trust me when I say that this wasn't easy, as it sounds like you know; as a woman and mother, I tend toward the emotional argument - I was far too concerned with his emotional wellbeing and physical comfort during this ordeal; blessedly, my husband is more of a rational creature. There were many arguments at home during that time, because we were thinking with different ranges in mind (mom wanted son to be comfortable and not in pain; dad didn't care if son was in pain, so long as the end result was that son lived).

Yes, I continued to trust the doctors, on some level and with my husband's help, even when *I* didn't understand and when I didn't like what was said. I still thank God that I/we did, too.


Quoting kirbymom:

I understand exactly how you feel. It is a scary place to be in when your child's life in on the line. However, when those same "degree'd" doctors tell you that your child is not sick enough from the drugs of cancer programs and we need to make your child more sick. Do you still trust those "experts"?

Quoting AutymsMommy:


To be frank,to life or death, I don't care if they aren't passionate or understanding. Some of my boy's surgeons lacked bedside manner and compassion entirely (or so it seemed), but that didn't stop them from successfully performing a surgery they had never done, and saving his life. Sometimes you can be incredibly good at something, even if you lack passion. I wouldn't have traded them for a doctor with passion, but with less knowledge or skill.

There are some areas of knowledge that cannot be affirmed without formal education and testing, and I trust that. Things that would be detrimental to others, if done wrong, shouldn't be self-affirmed; that has the potential to be dangerous. If you were on trial for capital murder, would you trust a self educated "lawyer", with no credentialed affirmation of skills, with your life and liberty?


Quoting hwblyf:

That's interesting.  I've gone to many "experts" in the field of allergies, and I wouldn't really want to go back (even though I did for years cuz my younger self didn't have the same sense I have now).  Passion wasn't their thing.  Nor was understanding.  Book knowledge isn't everything.  You can know something, and not KNOW it.  That said, I wouldn't go to a non-schooled doctor, but that degree is only a starting place.  And the ONLY reason it's a starting place, is because someone else has affirmed that person has the knowledge, not because the degree gave them more knowledge, does that make sense?  I want to know they've gone through and gotten the knowledge they claim to have without having to spend all the time necessary to affirm it myself.  I also think that experience gives much more credence to their knowledge, and in the case of your son's surgeries, no one could get the experience without the education.



Quoting AutymsMommy:

It's nice in theory to feel that one needn't have an education in order to be an expert in something, and I will agree to a point, but I'll also disagree - when it comes to something very important (say, life or death), I wouldn't trust someone without formal education in that area; someone who has been taught and tested on that knowledge. For example, when my son had his surgeries, I conferred with experts in lung, cardio, and vascular; sorry, but I wasn't going to trust someone "self educated", even if only for advice on the subject.

Other things - less life altering - sure, why not. Someone who is passionate about, and educates themselves on, the subject or field of their choice. Not sure I would consider them an expert or just very passionate though, if I'm honest.













I am a Home Schooling, Vaccinating, Non spanking, Nightmare Cuddling, Dessert Giving, Bedtime Kissing, Book Reading, Stay at Home Mom. I believe in the benefit of organized after school activities and nosy, involved parents. I believe in spoiling my children. I believe that I have seen the village and I do not want it anywhere near my children. Now for the controversial stuff:  we're Catholic, we're conservative, and we own guns (now there's no need to ask, lol).             Aimee















hwblyf
by Silver Member on Oct. 4, 2013 at 2:01 PM
1 mom liked this


I'm not sure I understand the question.  But I don't believe that knowledge is only acquired through a degreed program, nor do I believe that people who achieve the degree have necessarily acquired, sufficiently, the knowledge that degree may reflect.

As far as experts, I think it's tough to label anyone an expert.  There's just so much to know.  But I'm with mem, I'm an expert in sarcasm.  :)

Quoting kirbymom:

That is going in the same thought direction I am on. Let me ask a question here...do any of them 'need' a degree to be "true"?


Quoting hwblyf:

I found the best poster that I then made and hung at home.  It defines novice, apprentice, practitioner, and expert.  It's to get my kids thinking about where they are with certain skills, certain pieces of knowledge.  I love the definitions.  For this poster, an expert is someone who knows the topic well enough to teach it to someone else.

http://eberopolis.blogspot.com/2012/04/management-mentoring-monday-assessing.html

Possibly this isn't what you were going for since you and blue took it in a different direction, but I thought I'd add this.




hwblyf
by Silver Member on Oct. 4, 2013 at 2:03 PM

Interesting.  I called it Home Life.  Still do.  :)


Quoting mem82:

Yes. I spent years practicing and honing my craft. I refer to that era of my life Public School.

Quoting hwblyf:


self-taught?  :)

Quoting mem82:

I'm an expert in sarcasm.






hwblyf
by Silver Member on Oct. 4, 2013 at 2:06 PM
1 mom liked this


I can't even imagine.  God love you for being such an awesome mom.  :)  I was a big fat baby when my oldest had to get his tear ducts operated on.  Kudos to you!

Quoting AutymsMommy:

I don't understand exactly. Do you mean, would I continue a course of treatment that was making my child uncomfortable and seemingly more ill, and continue to trust that medical advice? Yes, probably - assuming I had done enough research of my own on the doctor and he/she had a proven track record. My son's surgeries were excruciating and required starvation on some level, before he could undergo certain procedures. It was heartbreaking for me to watch; to hear him begging for something to drink or eat and at that tender age not being able to give him that - to watch him so broken from pain that he just looked blankly at the wall. His procedures couldn't/didn't stop because he was terrified or hurting and yes, I trusted the medical advice that we had to carry on, regardless of him seeming more ill and in more pain, if we wanted him to live and live somewhat normally. Trust me when I say that this wasn't easy, as it sounds like you know; as a woman and mother, I tend toward the emotional argument - I was far too concerned with his emotional wellbeing and physical comfort during this ordeal; blessedly, my husband is more of a rational creature. There were many arguments at home during that time, because we were thinking with different ranges in mind (mom wanted son to be comfortable and not in pain; dad didn't care if son was in pain, so long as the end result was that son lived).

Yes, I continued to trust the doctors, on some level and with my husband's help, even when *I* didn't understand and when I didn't like what was said. I still thank God that I/we did, too.

kirbymom
by Sonja on Oct. 4, 2013 at 2:30 PM
I do understand the emotional arguementative side as you suggest. To have to see your child have to experience hell is so difficult to be a part of. I probably would have fought tooth and nail if asked to do those things to my child. In fact, I did. When the experts' end results, proven track record, is more than 50% ending in death, I am not too likely going to go with their assessment of a given situation. I am just wondering beyond this type of scenario, why we trust in people who give advice to parents and have no experience in this particular field. This befuddles me on levels I can't even begin to explain.


Quoting AutymsMommy:

I don't understand exactly. Do you mean, would I continue a course of treatment that was making my child uncomfortable and seemingly more ill, and continue to trust that medical advice? Yes, probably - assuming I had done enough research of my own on the doctor and he/she had a proven track record. My son's surgeries were excruciating and required starvation on some level, before he could undergo certain procedures. It was heartbreaking for me to watch; to hear him begging for something to drink or eat and at that tender age not being able to give him that - to watch him so broken from pain that he just looked blankly at the wall. His procedures couldn't/didn't stop because he was terrified or hurting and yes, I trusted the medical advice that we had to carry on, regardless of him seeming more ill and in more pain, if we wanted him to live and live somewhat normally. Trust me when I say that this wasn't easy, as it sounds like you know; as a woman and mother, I tend toward the emotional argument - I was far too concerned with his emotional wellbeing and physical comfort during this ordeal; blessedly, my husband is more of a rational creature. There were many arguments at home during that time, because we were thinking with different ranges in mind (mom wanted son to be comfortable and not in pain; dad didn't care if son was in pain, so long as the end result was that son lived).

Yes, I continued to trust the doctors, on some level and with my husband's help, even when *I* didn't understand and when I didn't like what was said. I still thank God that I/we did, too.


Quoting kirbymom:I understand exactly how you feel. It is a scary place to be in when your child's life in on the line. However, when those same "degree'd" doctors tell you that your child is not sick enough from the drugs of cancer programs and we need to make your child more sick. Do you still trust those "experts"?

Quoting AutymsMommy:

To be frank,to life or death, I don't care if they aren't passionate or understanding. Some of my boy's surgeons lacked bedside manner and compassion entirely (or so it seemed), but that didn't stop them from successfully performing a surgery they had never done, and saving his life. Sometimes you can be incredibly good at something, even if you lack passion. I wouldn't have traded them for a doctor with passion, but with less knowledge or skill.

There are some areas of knowledge that cannot be affirmed without formal education and testing, and I trust that. Things that would be detrimental to others, if done wrong, shouldn't be self-affirmed; that has the potential to be dangerous. If you were on trial for capital murder, would you trust a self educated "lawyer", with no credentialed affirmation of skills, with your life and liberty?


Quoting hwblyf:

That's interesting.  I've gone to many "experts" in the field of allergies, and I wouldn't really want to go back (even though I did for years cuz my younger self didn't have the same sense I have now).  Passion wasn't their thing.  Nor was understanding.  Book knowledge isn't everything.  You can know something, and not KNOW it.  That said, I wouldn't go to a non-schooled doctor, but that degree is only a starting place.  And the ONLY reason it's a starting place, is because someone else has affirmed that person has the knowledge, not because the degree gave them more knowledge, does that make sense?  I want to know they've gone through and gotten the knowledge they claim to have without having to spend all the time necessary to affirm it myself.  I also think that experience gives much more credence to their knowledge, and in the case of your son's surgeries, no one could get the experience without the education.


Quoting AutymsMommy:

It's nice in theory to feel that one needn't have an education in order to be an expert in something, and I will agree to a point, but I'll also disagree - when it comes to something very important (say, life or death), I wouldn't trust someone without formal education in that area; someone who has been taught and tested on that knowledge. For example, when my son had his surgeries, I conferred with experts in lung, cardio, and vascular; sorry, but I wasn't going to trust someone "self educated", even if only for advice on the subject.

Other things - less life altering - sure, why not. Someone who is passionate about, and educates themselves on, the subject or field of their choice. Not sure I would consider them an expert or just very passionate though, if I'm honest.









kirbymom
by Sonja on Oct. 4, 2013 at 3:18 PM
Quoting hwblyf:

I found the best poster that I then made and hung at home.  It defines novice, apprentice, practitioner, and expert.  It's to get my kids thinking about where they are with certain skills, certain pieces of knowledge.  I love the definitions.  For this poster, an expert is someone who knows the topic well enough to teach it to someone else.

http://eberopolis.blogspot.com/2012/04/management-mentoring-monday-assessing.html

Possibly this isn't what you were going for since you and blue took it in a different direction, but I thought I'd add this.




I believe this is along the same thought process because you show that you do not need a degree to prove these statements to be true.
hwblyf
by Silver Member on Oct. 4, 2013 at 3:22 PM


Yes.  Others may or may not agree with your own assessment, but I think it's a neat way to get kids to think about their own level of ability.  Adults, too, if we're apt to do things like that.  :)

Quoting kirbymom:

Quoting hwblyf:

I found the best poster that I then made and hung at home.  It defines novice, apprentice, practitioner, and expert.  It's to get my kids thinking about where they are with certain skills, certain pieces of knowledge.  I love the definitions.  For this poster, an expert is someone who knows the topic well enough to teach it to someone else.

http://eberopolis.blogspot.com/2012/04/management-mentoring-monday-assessing.html

Possibly this isn't what you were going for since you and blue took it in a different direction, but I thought I'd add this.




I believe this is along the same thought process because you show that you do not need a degree to prove these statements to be true.



kirbymom
by Sonja on Oct. 4, 2013 at 3:30 PM
Yeah, this post was so that we thought about the things we do and the places we put our trust. I want my kids to understand how important trust is and how important it is the mant places we decide to put that trust.


Quoting hwblyf:

Yes.  Others may or may not agree with your own assessment, but I think it's a neat way to get kids to think about their own level of ability.  Adults, too, if we're apt to do things like that.  :)


Quoting kirbymom:
Quoting hwblyf:

I found the best poster that I then made and hung at home.  It defines novice, apprentice, practitioner, and expert.  It's to get my kids thinking about where they are with certain skills, certain pieces of knowledge.  I love the definitions.  For this poster, an expert is someone who knows the topic well enough to teach it to someone else.

http://eberopolis.blogspot.com/2012/04/management-mentoring-monday-assessing.html

Possibly this isn't what you were going for since you and blue took it in a different direction, but I thought I'd add this.




I believe this is along the same thought process because you show that you do not need a degree to prove these statements to be true.



hwblyf
by Silver Member on Oct. 4, 2013 at 3:44 PM
1 mom liked this


I wish I had learned that lesson many, many years ago.  I've had many difficulties with doctors, from a young age.  And a lot of times my mom just didn't like the doctor, but he's a doctor, so he's right.  HELL NO.  I've never been abused, never had anything freaky happen to me, just ordinary, everyday occurences.  And I realized that people who are "experts" are often full of themselves and stop paying as much attention to things as I wish they would.  Arrogance negates expertise, if you ask me.  But I might be raising my kids a bit cynically.  I hope not, I hope it's just with honest thought and questioning of where others are coming from and how they should approach it all.

Quoting kirbymom:

Yeah, this post was so that we thought about the things we do and the places we put our trust. I want my kids to understand how important trust is and how important it is the mant places we decide to put that trust.
TidewaterClan
by on Oct. 4, 2013 at 3:44 PM
I'm sorry you and your family went through all of that. What a wonderful mother you are.

I agree, on life/death/possibly disastrous outcomes, I would much rather have someone with a degree and experience than not. My youngest had eye surgery when she was one, and we only trusted the best surgeon in town. There are some tasks that definitely require formal training.


Quoting AutymsMommy:

I don't understand exactly. Do you mean, would I continue a course of treatment that was making my child uncomfortable and seemingly more ill, and continue to trust that medical advice? Yes, probably - assuming I had done enough research of my own on the doctor and he/she had a proven track record. My son's surgeries were excruciating and required starvation on some level, before he could undergo certain procedures. It was heartbreaking for me to watch; to hear him begging for something to drink or eat and at that tender age not being able to give him that - to watch him so broken from pain that he just looked blankly at the wall. His procedures couldn't/didn't stop because he was terrified or hurting and yes, I trusted the medical advice that we had to carry on, regardless of him seeming more ill and in more pain, if we wanted him to live and live somewhat normally. Trust me when I say that this wasn't easy, as it sounds like you know; as a woman and mother, I tend toward the emotional argument - I was far too concerned with his emotional wellbeing and physical comfort during this ordeal; blessedly, my husband is more of a rational creature. There were many arguments at home during that time, because we were thinking with different ranges in mind (mom wanted son to be comfortable and not in pain; dad didn't care if son was in pain, so long as the end result was that son lived).

Yes, I continued to trust the doctors, on some level and with my husband's help, even when *I* didn't understand and when I didn't like what was said. I still thank God that I/we did, too.



Quoting kirbymom:

I understand exactly how you feel. It is a scary place to be in when your child's life in on the line. However, when those same "degree'd" doctors tell you that your child is not sick enough from the drugs of cancer programs and we need to make your child more sick. Do you still trust those "experts"?



Quoting AutymsMommy:


To be frank,to life or death, I don't care if they aren't passionate or understanding. Some of my boy's surgeons lacked bedside manner and compassion entirely (or so it seemed), but that didn't stop them from successfully performing a surgery they had never done, and saving his life. Sometimes you can be incredibly good at something, even if you lack passion. I wouldn't have traded them for a doctor with passion, but with less knowledge or skill.

There are some areas of knowledge that cannot be affirmed without formal education and testing, and I trust that. Things that would be detrimental to others, if done wrong, shouldn't be self-affirmed; that has the potential to be dangerous. If you were on trial for capital murder, would you trust a self educated "lawyer", with no credentialed affirmation of skills, with your life and liberty?



Quoting hwblyf:

That's interesting.  I've gone to many "experts" in the field of allergies, and I wouldn't really want to go back (even though I did for years cuz my younger self didn't have the same sense I have now).  Passion wasn't their thing.  Nor was understanding.  Book knowledge isn't everything.  You can know something, and not KNOW it.  That said, I wouldn't go to a non-schooled doctor, but that degree is only a starting place.  And the ONLY reason it's a starting place, is because someone else has affirmed that person has the knowledge, not because the degree gave them more knowledge, does that make sense?  I want to know they've gone through and gotten the knowledge they claim to have without having to spend all the time necessary to affirm it myself.  I also think that experience gives much more credence to their knowledge, and in the case of your son's surgeries, no one could get the experience without the education.




Quoting AutymsMommy:

It's nice in theory to feel that one needn't have an education in order to be an expert in something, and I will agree to a point, but I'll also disagree - when it comes to something very important (say, life or death), I wouldn't trust someone without formal education in that area; someone who has been taught and tested on that knowledge. For example, when my son had his surgeries, I conferred with experts in lung, cardio, and vascular; sorry, but I wasn't going to trust someone "self educated", even if only for advice on the subject.

Other things - less life altering - sure, why not. Someone who is passionate about, and educates themselves on, the subject or field of their choice. Not sure I would consider them an expert or just very passionate though, if I'm honest.
















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