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The easy way or the hard way??? ****UPDATE****

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Ok, sorry, I was MIA for a few days.   I thought I would come back and update.   I admit, some of the replies, I only had time to skim this evening.   I need to go back and re-read them later.   I appreciate the comments and concerns and even the negativity.   That's why I'm bothering to post here at all, because I belive that "iron" does in fact "sharpen iron."   It's good to hear like-minded moms share their thoughts on situations like this.

So...   here's the update:

I went ahead with this type of treatment for a couple days.   Not like calling her names or anything like that, but making it clear that by choosing to lie and sneak and hide, that she was behaving immature and had continually broken trust to the point that our "trust bank" was pretty much empty.

I followed her around when doing chores, I told her about how displeased I was having to do so instead of doing the other things I needed to do... I explained how much better she would feel inside by being trusted to do her chores and how much better it is to be trusted in what she says, too.   I didn't do the multiplication thing, because this child is a math whiz and really LOVES math... LOL!   It would have been a reward.

Anyway, like I said, I tried this at the suggestion of others that I've come to respect on here.  

After about two days of this, I pulled her aside and had a discussion.   We talked about how not listening ONCE in a while, or making mistakes ONCE in a while were normal.   None of us want to do what other people ask all the time.   However, CONSTANTLY disobeying like that and lying, it's like water dripping on a stone, it can destroy and wear away our family and our home to constantly have to follow around behind her making sure she's obeying us and participating in family life.   

I tried to create more of a discussion, but I'm sure it was more one sided.   However, I got the feeling she was thinking about it at least.

I asked her if she was wanting to be trusted again.   I asked her what it would take to BE trustworthy.   She gave me some decent answers and I agreed to let her off "watch" and give her back the trust.    She gave me big hugs and we went on with our day.

She has been in a great attitude since then, she's offered to help twice without being asked and she has not grumbled about her chores.   I know it's been a short time, but because of the improvement in her behavior, we agreed to let her spend the day at a friend's house when she got invited today.    She was elated and had lots of fun.   The family loved having her, and want her to come over again.   She made me very proud, and I told her that.

She went to bed skipping and singing.   :)

Personally, I think it was the combination of a "negative" response to her behavior combined with the heart to heart combined with the "restoration" ...  I think that's what might have worked this time.

Now, we will see if it has lasting effects.  

For some that said I reacted way to harshly for just fifteen minutes of sneaking and reading.......I don't mind she reads for 15 minutes instead of doing what I asked if it weren't a CONSTANT thing.  

What would you do if every time your child walked away from you, they just plain refused to obey anything asked of them?  You might start with a discussion... try to get into why they want to not obey.   Ok, been there, done that, bought the tee shirt.   Then what?




You may remember I've posted about my 11 yr old and lying being excessive.

Tonight, I sent them to go straighten their rooms and get in bed because we were at an activity until close to bed time.

I hear NOTHING from my eldest daughter for a while and I called her to me.   She hasn't even taken off her jacket yet.

Me:   Kaycee, stop reading, young lady (notice, I didn't even ask if she was reading..didn't put her in the position to lie to me)...

her:   What?  I wasn't reading.

Me: (with a grin, not even irritated, but in a way of, "mom knows you are doing somthing)... so... what were you doing?

her:   *pause* What you told me to do....

Me:   Which is what specifically?

her:  *pause* I was cleaning my room.

Me:  (Staring at her, KNOWING that she is telling me another lie.)    But what exactly did you just go clean up?   What specific items, because I'm not hearing any cleaning...

her:   Well, Abby (sis's) blankets are all over the floor.   (another symptom... blame)...

Me:  If they are currently all over the floor, those aren't what you were picking up, so what EXACTLY were you picking up.

Her:  *longer pause and wide eyes*   uhm... some stuff....

Me:   Kaycee, I am going to be honest and tell you that I know that you are lying.   Remember how we have talked about lying?   Are you wanting to do this hard way or the easy way? ((asked in my normal and calm voice, I'm just bolding it for effect here))  

Her:   ((Big long pause, wide eyes, batting lashes))  ...I'm not lying.

Me:   So what exactly did you clean?

Her:  *pause again*   well... uhm... there were some hangers on the floor and some other stuff.

Me:   (walking to her room and see absolutely NOTHING picked up)   Well, those hangers, there... on the floor.   Those are the ones you've spent 15 minutes now cleaning up?

Her:   *wide eyed stare*...

Me:   Well... *looking around the room*... what did you pick up?

Her:  .....nothing... 

Me:   What were you doing?

Her: .....reading.... *mumbled*


Seriously???    I didn't ASK you to admit to it.   I just told you from the get-go to stop reading and do as you were told.   You didn't have to say or do anything except choose to listen.   However, since you chose to lie... and then chose to lie again when I reminded you that lying is unacceptable and you had the choice between the hard way or the easy way....

Well.. here's your hard way...   go write me 200 sentences before bed.




by on Oct. 28, 2013 at 12:41 AM
Replies (21-30):
RockEducation
by on Nov. 2, 2013 at 8:25 PM

 I totally agree, Kate.

Quoting TidewaterClan:

Mem and Blue have wonderful advice.  The only other thing I'm personally throwing in is that I always hate to punish reading, research, etc.  I know it ended in a lie but I have a similar situation here.  We've been studying the branches of government and are holding elections next week.  My youngest is running against our big dog for President, and the oldest against the little dog for State Senator.  I've had numerous times this past week when the oldest has grabbed the pc to research what senators do, and to work on her PowerPoint presentation (the little dog really needs to get cracking on his!).  The first time I asked her what she was doing she replied I told her she could work on it.  I let her know that was AFTER she'd helped with laundry and cleaning.  Then I calmly asked for the pc, and sent her to the dryer.  Now I just calmly put my hand out for the pc, with no words spoken, and she gives it to me and immediately springs up to do whatever she was supposed to instead.

I'd choose a route where she doesn't even have the opportunity to lie (asking for her book until chores are done) so she understands respect and chores come first, but reading is still important.

 

celticdragon77
by on Nov. 3, 2013 at 10:47 AM
3 moms liked this

Here is the difference in our parenting styles:

Me: Honey, I asked you guys to go to bed like 15mins ago? Is everything okay? What are you reading babe, it must be really good, wanna tell mommy about it a little - I love a good book. *me laying down next to child and showing interest and a bit of excitement to be pulled into their world a little* After she told me a little about the book... Maybe we should set aside a little time every night so you can read at night in bed with a flashlight and with big snuggly blankets. I remember doing that when I was a kid. 

This is just what I read into things as I read your post: She was afraid. She could tell you were bringing up that she wasnt in bed and was reading. You can say that as sweet as you want, she isn't stupid, she knew you mentioned it because it displeased you somehow. So she she knew reading was not a good enough reason and she came up with one she thought was good enough - cleaning. What mom doesnt like when someone is cleaning. She deflected blame away from her for the same reason she lied. She is distressed and in her little kid way trying to deal with it - but in a unhealthy way. You are the parent, instead of wondering just how to correct her, wonder what you can do to remedy the situation as well.

Just my two cents anyways. 

celticdragon77
by on Nov. 3, 2013 at 4:45 PM
1 mom liked this

I dont understand this logic of tormenting the child.

Quoting mem82:

Not if you make it obvious that you are there because you don't trust her. That is going to burn her britches more than anything else, especially being the oldest child. You are saying by sitting there, "You are a baby that needs mommy to sit right here because you can't be trusted to be a big girl."

Make sure to annoy her while you are sitting there. Say, "Well, since I have to sit here since I know you can't be trusted to not lie about cleaning, I guess we should work on your multiplication tables. What's 9 times 8? Oh, pick up that sock, there. What's 7 times 6? I bet your friends don't have to have their moms watch them clean because they don't lie about cleaning. Their parents can trust them." ETC. Don't make it fun. Make it pissy.

Quoting KrissyKC:

I see that, which is why I wasn't asking her to admit to anything to begin with.   I just said, "Put the book away and get cleaning!"    I didn't ask her so she wouldn't be in a position to lie.    She chose to offer the lie without being asked.  

So you think that the not cleaning to begin with is the bigger problem, not the lying?  Because that's what this feels more like it addresses.   That since she won't clean her room on her own, that mom will sit and watch her clean her room.  It doesn't feel like it addresses the lying.



Quoting mem82:

But it sounds like you have one child, specifically, who has the issue lying. I agree with Blue. Parenting is a hands on job sometimes and yes, it can be a big ol' pain in the booty, it can be a time suck, but you are already losing time, peace, and patience and nothing you have done has helped. You are already being punished with how the household is being stressed by this issue. It's more reasonable to do it that way than to almost set up the child to lie again and again to you by asking her repeatedly to tell the truth. If you see what I mean. It's harder to admit a lie than to back track to the truth. Once the lie is told, no matter how many lines you give her, you are always going to end up having the same drawn out conversation where she will hold tight to the lie.It's instinct.

Quoting KrissyKC:

If I had to sit down on my kids' beds everytime they are supposed to pick up their belongings, then I honestly would not be doing much else.   I have four kids.   Sitting beside them every time when they clean their rooms, do their chores, etc... just isn't reasonable.   Besides, who am I diciplining?  Me or the child?



Quoting bluerooffarm:

What were you doing while the cleaning wasn't going on?  Was it something location specific?  Like prepping for breakfast or using the bathroom?  You have some pretty situation specific conequences you could use here to show DD why lying is not acceptable instead of using writing which creates a situation where school work is a punishment.

When you sent her to her room to clean, you could have gone right along with her and sat on her bed while she cleaned.  She would have definately questioned why.  Then you get to have a conversation about how she has broken your trust bond with her lying.  Now you know ahead of time that she is not going to clean her room, she is going to read instead because she can no longer be trusted to do the right thing.  So now she doesn't get the privacy of her room.  When she proves that her lying days are in the past then she will get the priveleges that come with it.  But remind her that lying has broken trust and broken her reputation and those are things that take a loooooooong time to rebuild.

 








celticdragon77
by on Nov. 3, 2013 at 4:46 PM
1 mom liked this

That was sarcasm, right? 400x's?

Quoting Jenn8604:

Next time make it 400 times something like I will listen to my mother and do as I am told, the first time, and stop lying to try to get out of trouble, as that only makes me in more trouble.


celticdragon77
by on Nov. 3, 2013 at 4:49 PM
2 moms liked this

You wanted her to go to bed

She read for 15mins instead. 

You called her out on it and she was like "Oh Shit!" and went to lie mode.

Your solution... write 200 sentences before bed

Please tell me that SOMEONE ELSE see's a flawed logic here. 

mem82
by Platinum Member on Nov. 3, 2013 at 4:53 PM

That's okay. Don't use it with your kids if you don't like it. Different strokes for different folks, I always say.

Quoting celticdragon77:

I dont understand this logic of tormenting the child.

Quoting mem82:

Not if you make it obvious that you are there because you don't trust her. That is going to burn her britches more than anything else, especially being the oldest child. You are saying by sitting there, "You are a baby that needs mommy to sit right here because you can't be trusted to be a big girl."

Make sure to annoy her while you are sitting there. Say, "Well, since I have to sit here since I know you can't be trusted to not lie about cleaning, I guess we should work on your multiplication tables. What's 9 times 8? Oh, pick up that sock, there. What's 7 times 6? I bet your friends don't have to have their moms watch them clean because they don't lie about cleaning. Their parents can trust them." ETC. Don't make it fun. Make it pissy.

Quoting KrissyKC:

I see that, which is why I wasn't asking her to admit to anything to begin with.   I just said, "Put the book away and get cleaning!"    I didn't ask her so she wouldn't be in a position to lie.    She chose to offer the lie without being asked.  

So you think that the not cleaning to begin with is the bigger problem, not the lying?  Because that's what this feels more like it addresses.   That since she won't clean her room on her own, that mom will sit and watch her clean her room.  It doesn't feel like it addresses the lying.



Quoting mem82:

But it sounds like you have one child, specifically, who has the issue lying. I agree with Blue. Parenting is a hands on job sometimes and yes, it can be a big ol' pain in the booty, it can be a time suck, but you are already losing time, peace, and patience and nothing you have done has helped. You are already being punished with how the household is being stressed by this issue. It's more reasonable to do it that way than to almost set up the child to lie again and again to you by asking her repeatedly to tell the truth. If you see what I mean. It's harder to admit a lie than to back track to the truth. Once the lie is told, no matter how many lines you give her, you are always going to end up having the same drawn out conversation where she will hold tight to the lie.It's instinct.

Quoting KrissyKC:

If I had to sit down on my kids' beds everytime they are supposed to pick up their belongings, then I honestly would not be doing much else.   I have four kids.   Sitting beside them every time when they clean their rooms, do their chores, etc... just isn't reasonable.   Besides, who am I diciplining?  Me or the child?



Quoting bluerooffarm:

What were you doing while the cleaning wasn't going on?  Was it something location specific?  Like prepping for breakfast or using the bathroom?  You have some pretty situation specific conequences you could use here to show DD why lying is not acceptable instead of using writing which creates a situation where school work is a punishment.

When you sent her to her room to clean, you could have gone right along with her and sat on her bed while she cleaned.  She would have definately questioned why.  Then you get to have a conversation about how she has broken your trust bond with her lying.  Now you know ahead of time that she is not going to clean her room, she is going to read instead because she can no longer be trusted to do the right thing.  So now she doesn't get the privacy of her room.  When she proves that her lying days are in the past then she will get the priveleges that come with it.  But remind her that lying has broken trust and broken her reputation and those are things that take a loooooooong time to rebuild.

 









Jenn8604
by Member on Nov. 3, 2013 at 5:42 PM
No if she thinks she can do what she wants, then lie, she'll learn quick if she has to sit and write 400 sentences. She should be there a few hours.

Quoting celticdragon77:

That was sarcasm, right? 400x's?

Quoting Jenn8604:

Next time make it 400 times something like I will listen to my mother and do as I am told, the first time, and stop lying to try to get out of trouble, as that only makes me in more trouble.


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PurpleCupcake
by on Nov. 3, 2013 at 5:50 PM
1 mom liked this

A few hours? 

Average words in sentence 5, 5x400 = 2,000. 2,000 words is a college level paper/essay. 

If so much writing is important why not have her write a 2,000 word essay on the subject?

Quoting Jenn8604:

No if she thinks she can do what she wants, then lie, she'll learn quick if she has to sit and write 400 sentences. She should be there a few hours.

Quoting celticdragon77:

That was sarcasm, right? 400x's?

Quoting Jenn8604:

Next time make it 400 times something like I will listen to my mother and do as I am told, the first time, and stop lying to try to get out of trouble, as that only makes me in more trouble.


















Jenn8604
by Member on Nov. 3, 2013 at 6:47 PM
That would probably be a good idea. That way when she reads a ton of stuff about lying she may get the picture. It's not college level work. More like middle school. IF YOUR HOMESCHOOLED. I wrote plenty of stuff twice that long in high school. It's DEFINITELY NOT college level.
Quoting PurpleCupcake:

A few hours? 

Average words in sentence 5, 5x400 = 2,000. 2,000 words is a college level paper/essay. 

If so much writing is important why not have her write a 2,000 word essay on the subject?

Quoting Jenn8604:

No if she thinks she can do what she wants, then lie, she'll learn quick if she has to sit and write 400 sentences. She should be there a few hours.





Quoting celticdragon77:

That was sarcasm, right? 400x's?

Quoting Jenn8604:

Next time make it 400 times something like I will listen to my mother and do as I am told, the first time, and stop lying to try to get out of trouble, as that only makes me in more trouble.



Posted on CafeMom Mobile
TidewaterClan
by on Nov. 3, 2013 at 7:32 PM
2 moms liked this
A quick search on 'child compulsive lying' returns with a ton of useful sites. I can't turn them into links from the phone but the main causes are ADHD, Fear Of Punishment, Low Self Esteem.

This child needs counseling. I can't say enough how wonderful our pediatrician, therapist (we had to change from the first one - don't be afraid to switch), and psychiatrist have been. I can fix software programs in a jiffy but my daughter's constant hand washing & confessing were beyond my scope of knowledge & ability. Family counseling would help ALL of you work together.

I know your upbringing was a sad one Krissy. It's hard to know what to do when you didn't have a great role model. Observe the women around you when you're at the museum, grocery, library, etc., and see how they interact with their children. You'll learn some great lessons - good & bad.

My favorite line ever from a book was "Be the parent you always wish you'd had" and I try to live by it.


http://www.livestrong.com/article/534769-kids-compulsive-lying/#page=1


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