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The easy way or the hard way??? ****UPDATE****

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Ok, sorry, I was MIA for a few days.   I thought I would come back and update.   I admit, some of the replies, I only had time to skim this evening.   I need to go back and re-read them later.   I appreciate the comments and concerns and even the negativity.   That's why I'm bothering to post here at all, because I belive that "iron" does in fact "sharpen iron."   It's good to hear like-minded moms share their thoughts on situations like this.

So...   here's the update:

I went ahead with this type of treatment for a couple days.   Not like calling her names or anything like that, but making it clear that by choosing to lie and sneak and hide, that she was behaving immature and had continually broken trust to the point that our "trust bank" was pretty much empty.

I followed her around when doing chores, I told her about how displeased I was having to do so instead of doing the other things I needed to do... I explained how much better she would feel inside by being trusted to do her chores and how much better it is to be trusted in what she says, too.   I didn't do the multiplication thing, because this child is a math whiz and really LOVES math... LOL!   It would have been a reward.

Anyway, like I said, I tried this at the suggestion of others that I've come to respect on here.  

After about two days of this, I pulled her aside and had a discussion.   We talked about how not listening ONCE in a while, or making mistakes ONCE in a while were normal.   None of us want to do what other people ask all the time.   However, CONSTANTLY disobeying like that and lying, it's like water dripping on a stone, it can destroy and wear away our family and our home to constantly have to follow around behind her making sure she's obeying us and participating in family life.   

I tried to create more of a discussion, but I'm sure it was more one sided.   However, I got the feeling she was thinking about it at least.

I asked her if she was wanting to be trusted again.   I asked her what it would take to BE trustworthy.   She gave me some decent answers and I agreed to let her off "watch" and give her back the trust.    She gave me big hugs and we went on with our day.

She has been in a great attitude since then, she's offered to help twice without being asked and she has not grumbled about her chores.   I know it's been a short time, but because of the improvement in her behavior, we agreed to let her spend the day at a friend's house when she got invited today.    She was elated and had lots of fun.   The family loved having her, and want her to come over again.   She made me very proud, and I told her that.

She went to bed skipping and singing.   :)

Personally, I think it was the combination of a "negative" response to her behavior combined with the heart to heart combined with the "restoration" ...  I think that's what might have worked this time.

Now, we will see if it has lasting effects.  

For some that said I reacted way to harshly for just fifteen minutes of sneaking and reading.......I don't mind she reads for 15 minutes instead of doing what I asked if it weren't a CONSTANT thing.  

What would you do if every time your child walked away from you, they just plain refused to obey anything asked of them?  You might start with a discussion... try to get into why they want to not obey.   Ok, been there, done that, bought the tee shirt.   Then what?




You may remember I've posted about my 11 yr old and lying being excessive.

Tonight, I sent them to go straighten their rooms and get in bed because we were at an activity until close to bed time.

I hear NOTHING from my eldest daughter for a while and I called her to me.   She hasn't even taken off her jacket yet.

Me:   Kaycee, stop reading, young lady (notice, I didn't even ask if she was reading..didn't put her in the position to lie to me)...

her:   What?  I wasn't reading.

Me: (with a grin, not even irritated, but in a way of, "mom knows you are doing somthing)... so... what were you doing?

her:   *pause* What you told me to do....

Me:   Which is what specifically?

her:  *pause* I was cleaning my room.

Me:  (Staring at her, KNOWING that she is telling me another lie.)    But what exactly did you just go clean up?   What specific items, because I'm not hearing any cleaning...

her:   Well, Abby (sis's) blankets are all over the floor.   (another symptom... blame)...

Me:  If they are currently all over the floor, those aren't what you were picking up, so what EXACTLY were you picking up.

Her:  *longer pause and wide eyes*   uhm... some stuff....

Me:   Kaycee, I am going to be honest and tell you that I know that you are lying.   Remember how we have talked about lying?   Are you wanting to do this hard way or the easy way? ((asked in my normal and calm voice, I'm just bolding it for effect here))  

Her:   ((Big long pause, wide eyes, batting lashes))  ...I'm not lying.

Me:   So what exactly did you clean?

Her:  *pause again*   well... uhm... there were some hangers on the floor and some other stuff.

Me:   (walking to her room and see absolutely NOTHING picked up)   Well, those hangers, there... on the floor.   Those are the ones you've spent 15 minutes now cleaning up?

Her:   *wide eyed stare*...

Me:   Well... *looking around the room*... what did you pick up?

Her:  .....nothing... 

Me:   What were you doing?

Her: .....reading.... *mumbled*


Seriously???    I didn't ASK you to admit to it.   I just told you from the get-go to stop reading and do as you were told.   You didn't have to say or do anything except choose to listen.   However, since you chose to lie... and then chose to lie again when I reminded you that lying is unacceptable and you had the choice between the hard way or the easy way....

Well.. here's your hard way...   go write me 200 sentences before bed.




by on Oct. 28, 2013 at 12:41 AM
Replies (41-50):
KrissyKC
by Silver Member on Nov. 3, 2013 at 11:31 PM
1 mom liked this

I think I understood Mem and Blue enough that I wasn't "pissy" or a bully, but I REALLY did let her know how it put me out and I made her stay up to speed so I wasn't spending a long time watching her do her chores.  ((For example, I made her stand up to sort the sock basket on the couch instead of sitting next to it.   Not yelling or hollering, but telling her that when she is trusted to do her chores without supervision, then she can sit or move at her own pace then.))    

I know Mem and Blue enough (on here) that I realized that they aren't telling me to degrade my kid and make her feel like scum.   LOL!   I took it as, "make sure it's uncomfortable so this isn't something she WANTS"...


  

Quoting RockEducation:

 No, punishment isn't suppose to be pleasant. Is it suppose to be pretty darn pissy............? I believe that to be an opinion.

No one asked you to apologize. From what I've read in the other posts, it sounds like this child has something going on and would indeed benefit from an evaluation by a professional.  I believe in being a parent first and don't believe in sugar coating anything as well. But I don't believe belittling and demeaning a child will have a positive outcome. The cleaning of the room was only part of the (tormenting) discipline. We both know that there is much more than just that.

 

 I hope this child doesn't feel that way about her mother.

 

 

Quoting mem82:

I don't disagree that professional help might be needed. I commented on the original post.
I can discipline easily without anger, annoyance, honestly, much ill will. It's part of my job to punish an out of line child. Sitting on a bed asking about the status of their friends or doing multiplication tables is hardly taxing on either of us. It would be possibly out of line to do this with company over because I don't believe in public humiliation.
A punishment is not supposed to be pleasant, it is supposed to be pretty darn pissy actually. I won't apologize that some think that sitting on a bed chatting is *torture *. I find it fairly amusing, really. Oh, no! Mom is watching me do my chores and asking me if I think my friends need a chore babysitter! I wish she would stop this torture and get out the belt! I rather be beaten or lose everything in my room then spend 20 minutes with my mom!
I am a parent, not a friend. I'm not going to sugar coat and have little talks to my kids when they are old enough to do as I say the first time. Heart to hearts have a large roll in my parenting but not for things like this.
If anyone finds their mother so horrible that cleaning a room under her supervision is akin to torture, well... The whole family is screwed. Now, if cleaning under supervision chaffes the hiney a bit, the punishment is doing its job perfectly.


Quoting RockEducation:

 Don't forget the part about making sure to annoy her, making sure it isn't fun, and to make it pissy, right? Somehow I don't find that to be good parenting skills. I mean, to make sure that you annoy someone, you would have to be somewhat annoyed yourself first.  I always try not to discipline when angry, annoyed, etc.


It's pretty obvious that there is a lot going on with this child. I don't see how that type of disciplining  is going to help. All kids need empathy, understanding, and the freedom to make mistakes.


I agree with jumprope to give the child some space and talk to this child. I'm sure at this point she would love someone to talk to that would listen to what she had to say and how she feels about whatever.


I also agree with Kate that seeing a professional would be helpful.


 


Quoting mem82:


Sitting on a bed, asking questions, and remarking on how other kids their age don't need that type of supervision is torment? I guess I can send back the waterboard I bought.


Quoting RockEducation:


 Yeah, that freakin' baffles me as well.


Quoting celticdragon77:


I dont understand this logic of tormenting the child.


Quoting mem82:


Not if you make it obvious that you are there because you don't trust her. That is going to burn her britches more than anything else, especially being the oldest child. You are saying by sitting there, "You are a baby that needs mommy to sit right here because you can't be trusted to be a big girl."


Make sure to annoy her while you are sitting there. Say, "Well, since I have to sit here since I know you can't be trusted to not lie about cleaning, I guess we should work on your multiplication tables. What's 9 times 8? Oh, pick up that sock, there. What's 7 times 6? I bet your friends don't have to have their moms watch them clean because they don't lie about cleaning. Their parents can trust them." ETC. Don't make it fun. Make it pissy.


Quoting KrissyKC:


I see that, which is why I wasn't asking her to admit to anything to begin with.   I just said, "Put the book away and get cleaning!"    I didn't ask her so she wouldn't be in a position to lie.    She chose to offer the lie without being asked.  


So you think that the not cleaning to begin with is the bigger problem, not the lying?  Because that's what this feels more like it addresses.   That since she won't clean her room on her own, that mom will sit and watch her clean her room.  It doesn't feel like it addresses the lying.






Quoting mem82:


But it sounds like you have one child, specifically, who has the issue lying. I agree with Blue. Parenting is a hands on job sometimes and yes, it can be a big ol' pain in the booty, it can be a time suck, but you are already losing time, peace, and patience and nothing you have done has helped. You are already being punished with how the household is being stressed by this issue. It's more reasonable to do it that way than to almost set up the child to lie again and again to you by asking her repeatedly to tell the truth. If you see what I mean. It's harder to admit a lie than to back track to the truth. Once the lie is told, no matter how many lines you give her, you are always going to end up having the same drawn out conversation where she will hold tight to the lie.It's instinct.


Quoting KrissyKC:


If I had to sit down on my kids' beds everytime they are supposed to pick up their belongings, then I honestly would not be doing much else.   I have four kids.   Sitting beside them every time when they clean their rooms, do their chores, etc... just isn't reasonable.   Besides, who am I diciplining?  Me or the child?






Quoting bluerooffarm:


What were you doing while the cleaning wasn't going on?  Was it something location specific?  Like prepping for breakfast or using the bathroom?  You have some pretty situation specific conequences you could use here to show DD why lying is not acceptable instead of using writing which creates a situation where school work is a punishment.


When you sent her to her room to clean, you could have gone right along with her and sat on her bed while she cleaned.  She would have definately questioned why.  Then you get to have a conversation about how she has broken your trust bond with her lying.  Now you know ahead of time that she is not going to clean her room, she is going to read instead because she can no longer be trusted to do the right thing.  So now she doesn't get the privacy of her room.  When she proves that her lying days are in the past then she will get the priveleges that come with it.  But remind her that lying has broken trust and broken her reputation and those are things that take a loooooooong time to rebuild.


 
















 




 

 



kmath
by Silver Member on Nov. 3, 2013 at 11:32 PM
1 mom liked this

What would you do if every time your child walked away from you, they just plain refused to obey anything asked of them?  You might start with a discussion... try to get into why they want to not obey.   Ok, been there, done that, bought the tee shirt


So, what has she told you about why she does what she does?  You say you have had the discussion, but have you actually listened to what she had to say and come up with ways to help both of you before she gets into trouble?  I am glad you didn't go as far as some of the moms suggested.  I don't believe degrading a child and making them feel worthless is ever the answer.  I hope you continue to find the balance that works with your child.

KrissyKC
by Silver Member on Nov. 3, 2013 at 11:40 PM

She can never come up with a reason.  It's always, "I don't know."...   no matter how gently I approach it, no matter how long I sit and wait, no matter how I try to approach it from a different angle.     She will open up and talk about what her friends have told her, she will discuss what OTHER people are doing, she will talk with me about a lot of things... but she hates discussing her own misbehavior (who does, though?) so it's hard to get behind it.


Quoting kmath:

What would you do if every time your child walked away from you, they just plain refused to obey anything asked of them?  You might start with a discussion... try to get into why they want to not obey.   Ok, been there, done that, bought the tee shirt


So, what has she told you about why she does what she does?  You say you have had the discussion, but have you actually listened to what she had to say and come up with ways to help both of you before she gets into trouble?  I am glad you didn't go as far as some of the moms suggested.  I don't believe degrading a child and making them feel worthless is ever the answer.  I hope you continue to find the balance that works with your child.



kmath
by Silver Member on Nov. 3, 2013 at 11:42 PM
1 mom liked this

I get that.  And if she can't give you an actual reason or explain it, then talking it to death isn't going to help.  It definitely isn't always the answer, just wasn't sure if you had gotten anywhere with it at all. 


Quoting KrissyKC:

She can never come up with a reason.  It's always, "I don't know."...   no matter how gently I approach it, no matter how long I sit and wait, no matter how I try to approach it from a different angle.     She will open up and talk about what her friends have told her, she will discuss what OTHER people are doing, she will talk with me about a lot of things... but she hates discussing her own misbehavior (who does, though?) so it's hard to get behind it.


Quoting kmath:

What would you do if every time your child walked away from you, they just plain refused to obey anything asked of them?  You might start with a discussion... try to get into why they want to not obey.   Ok, been there, done that, bought the tee shirt


So, what has she told you about why she does what she does?  You say you have had the discussion, but have you actually listened to what she had to say and come up with ways to help both of you before she gets into trouble?  I am glad you didn't go as far as some of the moms suggested.  I don't believe degrading a child and making them feel worthless is ever the answer.  I hope you continue to find the balance that works with your child.





RockEducation
by on Nov. 3, 2013 at 11:42 PM
1 mom liked this

 I do hope you find a balance and solutions to your problems, Krissy. I really do.

Quoting KrissyKC:

I think I understood Mem and Blue enough that I wasn't "pissy" or a bully, but I REALLY did let her know how it put me out and I made her stay up to speed so I wasn't spending a long time watching her do her chores.  ((For example, I made her stand up to sort the sock basket on the couch instead of sitting next to it.   Not yelling or hollering, but telling her that when she is trusted to do her chores without supervision, then she can sit or move at her own pace then.))    

I know Mem and Blue enough (on here) that I realized that they aren't telling me to degrade my kid and make her feel like scum.   LOL!   I took it as, "make sure it's uncomfortable so this isn't something she WANTS"...


  

Quoting RockEducation:

 No, punishment isn't suppose to be pleasant. Is it suppose to be pretty darn pissy............? I believe that to be an opinion.

No one asked you to apologize. From what I've read in the other posts, it sounds like this child has something going on and would indeed benefit from an evaluation by a professional.  I believe in being a parent first and don't believe in sugar coating anything as well. But I don't believe belittling and demeaning a child will have a positive outcome. The cleaning of the room was only part of the (tormenting) discipline. We both know that there is much more than just that.

 

 I hope this child doesn't feel that way about her mother.

 

 

Quoting mem82:

I don't disagree that professional help might be needed. I commented on the original post.
I can discipline easily without anger, annoyance, honestly, much ill will. It's part of my job to punish an out of line child. Sitting on a bed asking about the status of their friends or doing multiplication tables is hardly taxing on either of us. It would be possibly out of line to do this with company over because I don't believe in public humiliation.
A punishment is not supposed to be pleasant, it is supposed to be pretty darn pissy actually. I won't apologize that some think that sitting on a bed chatting is *torture *. I find it fairly amusing, really. Oh, no! Mom is watching me do my chores and asking me if I think my friends need a chore babysitter! I wish she would stop this torture and get out the belt! I rather be beaten or lose everything in my room then spend 20 minutes with my mom!
I am a parent, not a friend. I'm not going to sugar coat and have little talks to my kids when they are old enough to do as I say the first time. Heart to hearts have a large roll in my parenting but not for things like this.
If anyone finds their mother so horrible that cleaning a room under her supervision is akin to torture, well... The whole family is screwed. Now, if cleaning under supervision chaffes the hiney a bit, the punishment is doing its job perfectly.


Quoting RockEducation:

 Don't forget the part about making sure to annoy her, making sure it isn't fun, and to make it pissy, right? Somehow I don't find that to be good parenting skills. I mean, to make sure that you annoy someone, you would have to be somewhat annoyed yourself first.  I always try not to discipline when angry, annoyed, etc.


It's pretty obvious that there is a lot going on with this child. I don't see how that type of disciplining  is going to help. All kids need empathy, understanding, and the freedom to make mistakes.


I agree with jumprope to give the child some space and talk to this child. I'm sure at this point she would love someone to talk to that would listen to what she had to say and how she feels about whatever.


I also agree with Kate that seeing a professional would be helpful.


 


Quoting mem82:


Sitting on a bed, asking questions, and remarking on how other kids their age don't need that type of supervision is torment? I guess I can send back the waterboard I bought.


Quoting RockEducation:


 Yeah, that freakin' baffles me as well.


Quoting celticdragon77:


I dont understand this logic of tormenting the child.


Quoting mem82:


Not if you make it obvious that you are there because you don't trust her. That is going to burn her britches more than anything else, especially being the oldest child. You are saying by sitting there, "You are a baby that needs mommy to sit right here because you can't be trusted to be a big girl."


Make sure to annoy her while you are sitting there. Say, "Well, since I have to sit here since I know you can't be trusted to not lie about cleaning, I guess we should work on your multiplication tables. What's 9 times 8? Oh, pick up that sock, there. What's 7 times 6? I bet your friends don't have to have their moms watch them clean because they don't lie about cleaning. Their parents can trust them." ETC. Don't make it fun. Make it pissy.


Quoting KrissyKC:


I see that, which is why I wasn't asking her to admit to anything to begin with.   I just said, "Put the book away and get cleaning!"    I didn't ask her so she wouldn't be in a position to lie.    She chose to offer the lie without being asked.  


So you think that the not cleaning to begin with is the bigger problem, not the lying?  Because that's what this feels more like it addresses.   That since she won't clean her room on her own, that mom will sit and watch her clean her room.  It doesn't feel like it addresses the lying.


 


 


Quoting mem82:


But it sounds like you have one child, specifically, who has the issue lying. I agree with Blue. Parenting is a hands on job sometimes and yes, it can be a big ol' pain in the booty, it can be a time suck, but you are already losing time, peace, and patience and nothing you have done has helped. You are already being punished with how the household is being stressed by this issue. It's more reasonable to do it that way than to almost set up the child to lie again and again to you by asking her repeatedly to tell the truth. If you see what I mean. It's harder to admit a lie than to back track to the truth. Once the lie is told, no matter how many lines you give her, you are always going to end up having the same drawn out conversation where she will hold tight to the lie.It's instinct.


Quoting KrissyKC:


If I had to sit down on my kids' beds everytime they are supposed to pick up their belongings, then I honestly would not be doing much else.   I have four kids.   Sitting beside them every time when they clean their rooms, do their chores, etc... just isn't reasonable.   Besides, who am I diciplining?  Me or the child?


 


 


Quoting bluerooffarm:


What were you doing while the cleaning wasn't going on?  Was it something location specific?  Like prepping for breakfast or using the bathroom?  You have some pretty situation specific conequences you could use here to show DD why lying is not acceptable instead of using writing which creates a situation where school work is a punishment.


When you sent her to her room to clean, you could have gone right along with her and sat on her bed while she cleaned.  She would have definately questioned why.  Then you get to have a conversation about how she has broken your trust bond with her lying.  Now you know ahead of time that she is not going to clean her room, she is going to read instead because she can no longer be trusted to do the right thing.  So now she doesn't get the privacy of her room.  When she proves that her lying days are in the past then she will get the priveleges that come with it.  But remind her that lying has broken trust and broken her reputation and those are things that take a loooooooong time to rebuild.


 


 


 




 


 






 




 

 

 

 

 

celticdragon77
by on Nov. 4, 2013 at 10:30 AM
2 moms liked this

If I knew my child had an issue that caused her to lie a lot - I would first, try to figure out why. At a certain age it is considered by most specialists as a normal stage, beyond that stage, it is commonly done out of distress / fear. I would want to evaluate myself, to see if I was playing a part in that. I would even go to a few sessions with a family counselor (not a psychiatrist, unless referred to one) and they would be able to help find good healthy ways to deal with the issue. 

I do not think that any counselor would recommend sitting over the child and constantly being "pissy" with the child (since my own words are being taken out of context). I do not believe negative energy being directed at the child helps the situation - especially where lieing is concerned. It will create more nervous energy within the child, which would likely cause more lieing (if not even WORSE issues). 


The childs ORIGINAL offense was that she read instead of going to sleep. It was not that she lied or that she was supposed to clean her room (in the original post you NEVER stated that she was supposed to clean her room). Cleaning was just a lie she used to explain WHY she wasnt in bed as you expected her to be. 

Your main goal was to make sure she went to bed. You wanted to make the point that sleep is important and you also expect that when you say "go to bed", that she do it. THAT IS A FAIR REQUEST.

The lie likely needed handled separately and likely not that night. Maybe not at all except to get a counselor involved since this is an ONGOING issue that OBVIOUSLY has NOT been RESOLVED.

The reading at bedtime could have simply been handled by taking the book, allowing time every night to read, a comment that you were disappointed that she did not do what what you asked.

It was bedtime, everyone is tired and at a weaker state (mentally and emotionally).

I feel like the lesson was lost by making her stay up even later to write 200 sentences.



It isn't even just that this post along with others by you seem to reflect an overly strict parenting style that is causing your child to act out by lieing - and possibly going to cause further issues within her.

It was also the fact that you homeschool and punished her by writing 200 sentences before she was allowed to go to bed for an offense that ORIGINALLY was that she was reading 15mins past bedtime.

There has to be a psychology to homeschooling to consider. These kids are made to stay at home to learn. They see other kids go to school to learn. Even if you explain your reasons... they are still processing that in their own way. It concerns me when anything "educational" is used as a form of punishment. Everything is so merged together: home, school, parent, teacher... and when you start mixing punishments and school work... I think you end up sending very confusing messages to your child.

Sitting on the bed verbally antagonizing a child about how they arent as good as their friends and then asking what 7X6 is and then telling they missed picking up a sock... THAT IS A FORM OF BULLYING A CHILD, IT IS WRONG!!! I DONT CARE HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU GET TO TELL YOU IT IS OKAY. IT IS NOT OKAY!!! It is NOT AN ACCEPTABLE form of parenting. ANY family counselor would tell you as much! 

Kids WANT to please. They also have their own desires and can wander with them. So we have set voundaries but we also have to leave room to allow them to wander. If you understand and respect this within them, they will understand and respect what it is that your role is as well. And with each year (even long past childhood), we all grow richer in the understanding and respect for what it was that our parents were TRYING to do. 

I understand that you are viewing this on the terms of not wanting to be too relaxed in parenting. However, I would say that I have seen your philosophy MANY times and I urge you to explore other philosophys to parenting. A family counselor can help with this.



I grew up in foster care. I was severely mistreated and had no good example of good parenting. I ended up pregnant by 19 and was not on any level where a person should be to be an effective parent. Luckily, in some ways I was very strong and wise (in other ways I was VERY fragile and foolish). It was only recently that I decided to get family counseling because of the divorce and other things I was personally still needed to just talk to someone about from my own past. Some of the moms on here can even tell you - I was VERY relunctant to seek counseling. Being strong is what got me through my life and I saw seeking help as a sign of weakness that I could not tolerate within myself. Not that you are experiencing that persay. Just sharing a little of where I have been. 



I am not trying to be a jerk to ANYONE in this group. Certain thing said in this group though, some of the parenting styles, they really are hard for me to hear. Maybe it just seems weird but I cried when I read the post where the son was stood in a corner ALL DAY for not doing what was "deemed" as acceptable work... and when he cried and begged to go back to public school. Some posts here are CHILD ABUSE. No child would be ALLOWED to be treated like that in public school. Teachers are NOT allowed to stand over a child and watch everything they do and make the child recite facts while being told they are not as good as the kid next to them and made to clean. THAT WOULD GET A TEACHER IN TROUBLE. Some of you, your parenting is worse than if you sent your child back to public school!!! Some of you are the reason that I even wonder if homeschooling should be legal. 

mem82
by Platinum Member on Nov. 4, 2013 at 11:05 AM
I stand by my suggested punishment, I agree that counseling may help and I don't just reject the idea that my suggestion is in anyway abusive, I am rolling around on the floor laughing my head off that someone would consider it abusive. I don't think that I am a perfect parent, but I am in no way abusive. 8) Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. My style may not work with your kids, and that's okay. I don't make the mistake of assuming that my way is the only way. I hope everyone can remember that no one is perfect and that there is no one way to deal with problems.
celticdragon77
by on Nov. 4, 2013 at 11:13 AM
1 mom liked this

I dont mean to interrupt in your discussion here Kayla.

But Krissy, the point of parenting is to help the child become a healthy, happy, functional person that can go into the world. LIEING and NOT KNOWING WHY SHE DOES UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIORS is just not going to help her be person she needs to become to go out into the world.

A judge will not give a damn what her reasons were for lieing or making unacceptable choices in life. He will just throw her ass in jail (which is sad really because it further ruins their chances to be a productive stable person in society. The state would be better off using that money to get those people counseling).

But anyways, she is NOT an adult yet and NOT in that sad state of the system yet... YOU still have a lot of say in who she becomes as a person.

Maybe you lack the skills yourself to know how to handle the situation with her. BUT YOU DO HAVE THE POWER to seek the help you all need!!!

A family counselor NEEDS involved.

All of your parenting NEEDS to have VERY CLEAR and EASY messages for her to understand. You also need to work on more than JUST punishments with her. You need to focus on growing her into a confident person. You need to create a loving relationship where it is just you and her. 

Talk about unconvential parenting. Everyone thought I was going about parenting ALL WRONG when I decided to take my then teen daughter (I think 15 or 16) who was getting into trouble and I was having to come down on her a lot and I started to feel this energy of WAR between us. A battle of wills. I couldn't given in on some of the rules. They were to make sure she was safe and that was my job!!! BUT, I started waking her up at 4am (she was in public school - high school at the time) and I would take her to the dinner for breakfast. I was newly divorced and struggling to get by, but I scrounged up that money to do it. We sat and would eat and talk and laugh... AND TO THIS DAY my daughter have a habit of finding diners all over the area - and outside of it. We don't do it every day, but we do it and always will when it strikes us to. SHE LIGHTS UP AND HUGS ME sometimes and tells me HOW MUCH IT HELPED HER. And I was setting a tone and forged a bond before she went off to school with her friends... something she cherished enough to consder before making decisions that she knew could ruin it. 

I REALLY think if you work on something positive and focus on it, a lot of the negatives in time will disappear. Now NOTICE, my RULES and CONSQUENCES still stayed in place for her. They were CLEAR and SIMPLE.

When mentioning not being able to sit while folding laundry. That message is NOT CLEAR AND SIMPLE. Its needless bullying to the child. To you it isnt. To her it is. Kids are REAL quick to just think "this person" HATES ME. I would seriously be feeling that if I was being treated the way you described. I would have no respect for you because I would be confused by you. I would feel bullied and disrespected by you. I would have mixed feelings of love and hate (not just towards you but coming from you). 

You dont seem like a person with negative energy that is causing you to just be mean spirited or anything. I think you are sincerely trying to raise good kids. However, I think your methods could use some guidance / better direction. I know MANY moms who have had to do that in this group. It is NOTHING shameful in that. Everyone has their own parenting challenges to face and we can't do it by ourselves... which is even the point of these groups.

If you want someone to tell you that you are doing is right, or even give you more extreme ideas, then that is your choice. Just do not be surprised when you are still dealing with the same issues - or worse ones. No one that is criticizing your methods (and yep, I know that I am) is saying DO WHAT I DO, we are saying, FIND A FAMILY COUNSELOR to help you. There ARE more effective ways to parent. Dont just trust my word for it, TRUST A TRAINED FAMILY SPECIALIST. 

Quoting kmath:

I get that.  And if she can't give you an actual reason or explain it, then talking it to death isn't going to help.  It definitely isn't always the answer, just wasn't sure if you had gotten anywhere with it at all. 


Quoting KrissyKC:

She can never come up with a reason.  It's always, "I don't know."...   no matter how gently I approach it, no matter how long I sit and wait, no matter how I try to approach it from a different angle.     She will open up and talk about what her friends have told her, she will discuss what OTHER people are doing, she will talk with me about a lot of things... but she hates discussing her own misbehavior (who does, though?) so it's hard to get behind it.


Quoting kmath:

What would you do if every time your child walked away from you, they just plain refused to obey anything asked of them?  You might start with a discussion... try to get into why they want to not obey.   Ok, been there, done that, bought the tee shirt


So, what has she told you about why she does what she does?  You say you have had the discussion, but have you actually listened to what she had to say and come up with ways to help both of you before she gets into trouble?  I am glad you didn't go as far as some of the moms suggested.  I don't believe degrading a child and making them feel worthless is ever the answer.  I hope you continue to find the balance that works with your child.






celticdragon77
by on Nov. 4, 2013 at 11:40 AM
1 mom liked this

Krissy seems very sweet natured - or at least I sense no mean spirit nature from her (and I know at least few others feel the same way). 

She comes in here for help repeatedly. Her methods are clearly NOT working.

You stand behind giving her more extreme suggestions than she is already using. 

You now you are "rolling on the floor laughing" that someone mentions that your advice to this family is not only ILLOGICAL but MEAN SPIRITED for the child.

How am NOT surprised that you find this funny?! Oh wait, because logic and experience of dealing with you has taught me better. 

...and NO your way (the example given) is NEVER the APPROPRIATE way. 

No one thinks anyone is perfect mem. People are simply trying to help someone. Many of us have mentioned that we dont have all the answers for her and that she needs family counseling ... and that many of us had to use this kind of assistance with parenting. 

However, I DO say that anything that shames or in any way demeans a child IS THE WRONG WAY! I will never be apologetic for that and I will ALWAYS stand behind it.  

Quoting mem82:

I stand by my suggested punishment, I agree that counseling may help and I don't just reject the idea that my suggestion is in anyway abusive, I am rolling around on the floor laughing my head off that someone would consider it abusive. I don't think that I am a perfect parent, but I am in no way abusive. 8) Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. My style may not work with your kids, and that's okay. I don't make the mistake of assuming that my way is the only way. I hope everyone can remember that no one is perfect and that there is no one way to deal with problems.


mem82
by Platinum Member on Nov. 4, 2013 at 11:50 AM

I refuse to get into an argument with you. I do laugh at anyone including you, who thinks that the punishment I suggest is extreme. It's not. Nothing more to say on the subject.

 Now, I realize that you have plenty of negative energy towards me and obviously enough time to indulge in it with your passive aggressive *not pointing any fingers* replies. I won't be playing along with you, today, because, quite plainly, I have better things to do than watch you go off half cocked the way you have a few other times. It really isn't all that interesting to be perfectly honest. Let's just agree to disagree and go back to avoiding each other because we both know we don't rub together well.  I have big girl undies on. Do you?

Quoting celticdragon77:

Krissy seems very sweet natured - or at least I sense no mean spirit nature from her (and I know at least few others feel the same way). 

She comes in here for help repeatedly. Her methods are clearly NOT working.

You stand behind giving her more extreme suggestions than she is already using. 

You now you are "rolling on the floor laughing" that someone mentions that your advice to this family is not only ILLOGICAL but MEAN SPIRITED for the child.

How am NOT surprised that you find this funny?! Oh wait, because logic and experience of dealing with you has taught me better. 

...and NO your way (the example given) is NEVER the APPROPRIATE way. 

No one thinks anyone is perfect mem. People are simply trying to help someone. Many of us have mentioned that we dont have all the answers for her and that she needs family counseling ... and that many of us had to use this kind of assistance with parenting. 

However, I DO say that anything that shames or in any way demeans a child IS THE WRONG WAY! I will never be apologetic for that and I will ALWAYS stand behind it.  

Quoting mem82:

I stand by my suggested punishment, I agree that counseling may help and I don't just reject the idea that my suggestion is in anyway abusive, I am rolling around on the floor laughing my head off that someone would consider it abusive. I don't think that I am a perfect parent, but I am in no way abusive. 8) Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. My style may not work with your kids, and that's okay. I don't make the mistake of assuming that my way is the only way. I hope everyone can remember that no one is perfect and that there is no one way to deal with problems.




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