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I do not have a problem with everyone discussing unschooling in general. However, I did want to point out (because I wasn't specific enough in the original post) that I was trying to discuss what is within these quotes. 


Do you think that it is important and necessary to know about "the great works" and significant information about your country (people, events, documents, and laws that had a significant impact on the country and way of life)?

Do you value this knowledge? Do you feel like you value it any less than?  -- I ask this because I feel like she is giving the impression that her family or other unschoolers sometimes value 'typical academics' (I am using that term loosely) less than others. 

In DM's statement, she mentions forgetting this information that she was exposed to. I am assuming that the arguement there was that if we forget the information anyways, how important was it to begin with - what was the worth in covering it. So would you agree with that? 




The quotes that I am interested in are at two times in the video:

1:12

Interviewer: "Doesn't the child need to know who George Washington, FDR, and JFK are?"

D.M: "Well, I don't know. Do you think that they do? Do you think that is necessary?"

7:23

Interviewer: "What about when the learning gets more sophisticated? How do you expose them to Shakesphere or Twain or Henry James. How do you teach them the great works and the great historians if you can't get them to sit down and learn?"

D.M: "Well, I think some people might value that more than others. I honestly don't remember - yes although I know their names - I don't remember the details that I learned in school - about the historians for example."

  

Important Note: Dayna Martin is a radical unschooler. I do not know if Dayna Martin is the best example. I just know that her face is very front and center. She has a ton of youtube videos, been on wife swap as well as Dr Phil, she has done number interviews, she has written a few books, spoke at a number of conferences, etc. She ALSO has come under fire (maybe that was just bound to happen with all of the exposure). 

However, this does NOT deter me from wanting to know how unschoolers feel about her specific statements/questions in the above quotes.


Quote Source: Dayna Martin interview w/ ABC news: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuhfhRLwTB0 

The actual video was removed because I felt that it confused and distracted from the questions that I am trying to ask. I just wanted to have a source for where my quotes came from. 

by on Jan. 22, 2014 at 9:08 AM
Replies (11-20):
KickButtMama
by Shannon on Jan. 22, 2014 at 12:31 PM
1 mom liked this

The difference is exactly what you stated. Radical unschoolers truly don't care about traditional subjects if their kids don't ask for them. Whereas a traditional unschooler WILL teach those subjects, just through unconventional methods.

Quoting celtic77dragon:

I meant to address this in my LONG reply there (btw, sorry that you got slammed with that while you are already busy with moving). 

I know there is a difference with unschoolers and radical unschoolers. I can't for the life of me figure out what it is though. I believe it is this video that says that unschooling is just regards to education and radical unschooling carries over into the parenting style. HOWEVER, when I googled this to make sure, I found that Sandra Dodd has a webpage full of quotes explaining the differences and the destinction between the two became blurry again.  

So I decided to direct this post towards ALL unschoolers

Quoting KickButtMama:

First it's important to point out that she is a Radical Unschoolers, which is a fairly small population. 



celtic77dragon
by Member on Jan. 22, 2014 at 12:47 PM

Do you think the people in those countries know significant information about their own countries (people, events, documents, and laws that had a significant impact on their country and way of life). I was going to add especially if they have the right to vote and make changes within their country -- however, not being given the right doesn't mean you can't still effect change. 

The interviewer was asking an American about American historical figures.


Quoting Chasing3:

well, I think the point can be made that there are tons of successful people in the world who don't know those names - because they grew up in Asia, EUrope, South America, Africa or wherever... I mean, they might know some of them vaguely. But we probably don't know ANY of their historical and political figures or authors or cultural icons - especially since we are so western and eurocentric in our culture in the US.

But I think there is value in having some basic recognition of those names and simialr ones in history, science, literature, politics, etc that are important in your own culture, ya know? 


jen2150
by Silver Member on Jan. 22, 2014 at 1:03 PM
It is all important. We retain what is important to us. History is important. Understanding history is critical to understanding how our government works and where we stand on important issues and why. Math is important. Michael Faraday did not have adequate math training. He was essentially self taught. For years he tried to prove his theories but couldn't because he lacked mathematical knowledge. If you want to have good health you need a basic understanding of how the human body functions. Logic and reasoning is important. Reading is important to function and be self sufficient. Higher math is not for everyone but basic understanding is useful for everyone. We are not all going to be historians but a basic understanding of history will help to understand what is going on. Knowing the constitution and our presidents is important for every American. I think that having a basic understanding of all the subjects is important. My sons hate writing but it is important for them to write well when they are older. I am not concerned though. The older they get the more they enjoy it. My son in 5th grade decided he wanted to write a book out of the blue. Writing is something that comes later for many children. Just because they are not interested does not mean they won't be at a later time. My son's are taking computer science. I have no idea if they are going to be going into a computer field but they will have a basic understanding of it. If they do not want to study computers then I would just wait till they are interested. Just because my kids are not ready for something doesn't mean it is not important later on. I can't think of any information or subject that is not important to learn. Unschooling at its core is about opening up the joy of learning to a child. I don't see how telling people that learning about the presidents is not important is the right way to go. It is doing them a disservice. I do not force my children to learn anything but all knowledge is important.

Quoting paganbaby:
Quoting jen2150: I also wanted to add as unschoolers how important for us to be models for our children. We need to reawaken our thirst for knowledge. We also need to learn why history is important. If you don't understand why knowing about the presidents is important then you first need to discover why it is important. I find myself cringing every time an unschooler says something is not important for kids to know. I recognize there is a right time for everything. All information is important. It just might not be the right time. There is not a subject we have learned about that does not have a very good reason for learning the material. It is not what schools are teaching that I have a problem with but how they are teaching it.(as l0ng as it is accurate)

There's a lot of information out there. What do you feel is absolutely necessary for kids to know?

celtic77dragon
by Member on Jan. 22, 2014 at 1:08 PM

Yeah, I made sure to put that in the post when I wrote it. The two things you mentioned are the reasons I asked this to ALL unschoolers. I didn't know if it was just something one woman thought, only a select few thought, or if it was a widely held thought amongst unschoolers. 

Quoting usmom3:

 Dana Martin is a very poor example of unschoolers!

 1 Because she is a radical unschooler!

 2 Because it has come to light in the past few years that she is a charlatan!

Knowing who the past presidents are & the other people in the questions will be learned when the information is important to the child to know.

My younger children (age 10 & 8) know who George Washington, William Shakespeare & Mark Twain are. They know who they are because they have been introduced to them through things like the Magic Tree House books & it made them curious to know more about them. They know more historically famous people then they do pop culture famous people!


usmom3
by BJ on Jan. 22, 2014 at 1:34 PM

That is the opinion of her & her followers! Let me tell you that is a small group, especially now that the whole unschooling community has seen her & her husband for what they are! 

Quoting celtic77dragon:

Yeah, I made sure to put that in the post when I wrote it. The two things you mentioned are the reasons I asked this to ALL unschoolers. I didn't know if it was just something one woman thought, only a select few thought, or if it was a widely held thought amongst unschoolers. 

Quoting usmom3:

 Dana Martin is a very poor example of unschoolers!

 1 Because she is a radical unschooler!

 2 Because it has come to light in the past few years that she is a charlatan!

Knowing who the past presidents are & the other people in the questions will be learned when the information is important to the child to know.

My younger children (age 10 & 8) know who George Washington, William Shakespeare & Mark Twain are. They know who they are because they have been introduced to them through things like the Magic Tree House books & it made them curious to know more about them. They know more historically famous people then they do pop culture famous people!


 

Chasing3
by Bronze Member on Jan. 22, 2014 at 1:38 PM
1 mom liked this

I thought I answered that:

But I think there is value in having some basic recognition of those names and simialr ones in history, science, literature, politics, etc that are important in your own culture, ya know? 



Quoting celtic77dragon:

Do you think the people in those countries know significant information about their own countries (people, events, documents, and laws that had a significant impact on their country and way of life). I was going to add especially if they have the right to vote and make changes within their country -- however, not being given the right doesn't mean you can't still effect change. 

The interviewer was asking an American about American historical figures.


Quoting Chasing3:

well, I think the point can be made that there are tons of successful people in the world who don't know those names - because they grew up in Asia, EUrope, South America, Africa or wherever... I mean, they might know some of them vaguely. But we probably don't know ANY of their historical and political figures or authors or cultural icons - especially since we are so western and eurocentric in our culture in the US.

But I think there is value in having some basic recognition of those names and simialr ones in history, science, literature, politics, etc that are important in your own culture, ya know? 



katyq
by Member on Jan. 22, 2014 at 1:52 PM
1 mom liked this

I'm confused! What did this woman and her husband do? I have never heard of them.

Quoting usmom3:

That is the opinion of her & her followers! Let me tell you that is a small group, especially now that the whole unschooling community has seen her & her husband for what they are! 

Quoting celtic77dragon:

Yeah, I made sure to put that in the post when I wrote it. The two things you mentioned are the reasons I asked this to ALL unschoolers. I didn't know if it was just something one woman thought, only a select few thought, or if it was a widely held thought amongst unschoolers. 

Quoting usmom3:

 Dana Martin is a very poor example of unschoolers!

 1 Because she is a radical unschooler!

 2 Because it has come to light in the past few years that she is a charlatan!

Knowing who the past presidents are & the other people in the questions will be learned when the information is important to the child to know.

My younger children (age 10 & 8) know who George Washington, William Shakespeare & Mark Twain are. They know who they are because they have been introduced to them through things like the Magic Tree House books & it made them curious to know more about them. They know more historically famous people then they do pop culture famous people!


 


paganbaby
by Silver Member on Jan. 22, 2014 at 3:01 PM

At minimum, I think having a basic understanding of American history, math skills, reading, writing, technology, home ec, biology and earth science is important. Beyond that, it's really up to the individual.

Not being able to name every single president, imo, isn't a crime. Neither is not knowing how to change brakes on a car (mechanics) or how to help a cow give birth (animal husbandry) or how to soothe a fussy baby or calm a tantruming toddler (early childhood development)

Saying you cringe because an unschooler doesn't put the same emphasis on the same subjects you do, makes me cringe. Yes, all subjects are important 'to someone' but they're not nessecary to everyone.

Quoting jen2150: It is all important. We retain what is important to us. History is important. Understanding history is critical to understanding how our government works and where we stand on important issues and why. Math is important. Michael Faraday did not have adequate math training. He was essentially self taught. For years he tried to prove his theories but couldn't because he lacked mathematical knowledge. If you want to have good health you need a basic understanding of how the human body functions. Logic and reasoning is important. Reading is important to function and be self sufficient. Higher math is not for everyone but basic understanding is useful for everyone. We are not all going to be historians but a basic understanding of history will help to understand what is going on. Knowing the constitution and our presidents is important for every American. I think that having a basic understanding of all the subjects is important. My sons hate writing but it is important for them to write well when they are older. I am not concerned though. The older they get the more they enjoy it. My son in 5th grade decided he wanted to write a book out of the blue. Writing is something that comes later for many children. Just because they are not interested does not mean they won't be at a later time. My son's are taking computer science. I have no idea if they are going to be going into a computer field but they will have a basic understanding of it. If they do not want to study computers then I would just wait till they are interested. Just because my kids are not ready for something doesn't mean it is not important later on. I can't think of any information or subject that is not important to learn. Unschooling at its core is about opening up the joy of learning to a child. I don't see how telling people that learning about the presidents is not important is the right way to go. It is doing them a disservice. I do not force my children to learn anything but all knowledge is important.

Quoting paganbaby:
Quoting jen2150: I also wanted to add as unschoolers how important for us to be models for our children. We need to reawaken our thirst for knowledge. We also need to learn why history is important. If you don't understand why knowing about the presidents is important then you first need to discover why it is important. I find myself cringing every time an unschooler says something is not important for kids to know. I recognize there is a right time for everything. All information is important. It just might not be the right time. There is not a subject we have learned about that does not have a very good reason for learning the material. It is not what schools are teaching that I have a problem with but how they are teaching it.(as l0ng as it is accurate)

There's a lot of information out there. What do you feel is absolutely necessary for kids to know?




I will not have a temper tantrum nor stomp across the floor.


I will not pout, scream or shout or kick against the door.

I will not throw my food around nor pick upon another.

I’ll always try to be real good because I am the mother.

I am the mother.

I am the mother.














paganbaby
by Silver Member on Jan. 22, 2014 at 3:10 PM

What's wrong with being a radical unschooler? And how is she a charlatan?

Quoting usmom3:

 Dana Martin is a very poor example of unschoolers!

 1 Because she is a radical unschooler!

 2 Because it has come to light in the past few years that she is a charlatan!

Knowing who the past presidents are & the other people in the questions will be learned when the information is important to the child to know.

My younger children (age 10 & 8) know who George Washington, William Shakespeare & Mark Twain are. They know who they are because they have been introduced to them through things like the Magic Tree House books & it made them curious to know more about them. They know more historically famous people then they do pop culture famous people!




I will not have a temper tantrum nor stomp across the floor.


I will not pout, scream or shout or kick against the door.

I will not throw my food around nor pick upon another.

I’ll always try to be real good because I am the mother.

I am the mother.

I am the mother.














usmom3
by BJ on Jan. 22, 2014 at 3:19 PM

  Read this & fallow the links CLICK ME

Quoting katyq:

I'm confused! What did this woman and her husband do? I have never heard of them.

Quoting usmom3:

That is the opinion of her & her followers! Let me tell you that is a small group, especially now that the whole unschooling community has seen her & her husband for what they are! 

Quoting celtic77dragon:

Yeah, I made sure to put that in the post when I wrote it. The two things you mentioned are the reasons I asked this to ALL unschoolers. I didn't know if it was just something one woman thought, only a select few thought, or if it was a widely held thought amongst unschoolers. 

Quoting usmom3:

 Dana Martin is a very poor example of unschoolers!

 1 Because she is a radical unschooler!

 2 Because it has come to light in the past few years that she is a charlatan!

Knowing who the past presidents are & the other people in the questions will be learned when the information is important to the child to know.

My younger children (age 10 & 8) know who George Washington, William Shakespeare & Mark Twain are. They know who they are because they have been introduced to them through things like the Magic Tree House books & it made them curious to know more about them. They know more historically famous people then they do pop culture famous people!


 


 

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