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Homeschooling Moms Homeschooling Moms

I do not have a problem with everyone discussing unschooling in general. However, I did want to point out (because I wasn't specific enough in the original post) that I was trying to discuss what is within these quotes. 


Do you think that it is important and necessary to know about "the great works" and significant information about your country (people, events, documents, and laws that had a significant impact on the country and way of life)?

Do you value this knowledge? Do you feel like you value it any less than?  -- I ask this because I feel like she is giving the impression that her family or other unschoolers sometimes value 'typical academics' (I am using that term loosely) less than others. 

In DM's statement, she mentions forgetting this information that she was exposed to. I am assuming that the arguement there was that if we forget the information anyways, how important was it to begin with - what was the worth in covering it. So would you agree with that? 




The quotes that I am interested in are at two times in the video:

1:12

Interviewer: "Doesn't the child need to know who George Washington, FDR, and JFK are?"

D.M: "Well, I don't know. Do you think that they do? Do you think that is necessary?"

7:23

Interviewer: "What about when the learning gets more sophisticated? How do you expose them to Shakesphere or Twain or Henry James. How do you teach them the great works and the great historians if you can't get them to sit down and learn?"

D.M: "Well, I think some people might value that more than others. I honestly don't remember - yes although I know their names - I don't remember the details that I learned in school - about the historians for example."

  

Important Note: Dayna Martin is a radical unschooler. I do not know if Dayna Martin is the best example. I just know that her face is very front and center. She has a ton of youtube videos, been on wife swap as well as Dr Phil, she has done number interviews, she has written a few books, spoke at a number of conferences, etc. She ALSO has come under fire (maybe that was just bound to happen with all of the exposure). 

However, this does NOT deter me from wanting to know how unschoolers feel about her specific statements/questions in the above quotes.


Quote Source: Dayna Martin interview w/ ABC news: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuhfhRLwTB0 

The actual video was removed because I felt that it confused and distracted from the questions that I am trying to ask. I just wanted to have a source for where my quotes came from. 

by on Jan. 22, 2014 at 9:08 AM
Replies (21-30):
usmom3
by BJ on Jan. 22, 2014 at 3:21 PM
1 mom liked this

 READ THIS

I am not saying there is anything wrong with it I am saying she is a fake!

Quoting paganbaby:

What's wrong with being a radical unschooler? And how is she a charlatan?

Quoting usmom3:

 Dana Martin is a very poor example of unschoolers!

 1 Because she is a radical unschooler!

 2 Because it has come to light in the past few years that she is a charlatan!

Knowing who the past presidents are & the other people in the questions will be learned when the information is important to the child to know.

My younger children (age 10 & 8) know who George Washington, William Shakespeare & Mark Twain are. They know who they are because they have been introduced to them through things like the Magic Tree House books & it made them curious to know more about them. They know more historically famous people then they do pop culture famous people!


 

xomrs.chase
by Member on Jan. 22, 2014 at 3:23 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't see how those kids are learning from that video. I watched with an open mind, but the only one I saw having a possible success was the oldest- a baker maybe.

History is important. If we don't learn from it, we're doomed to repeat it.

Math is important. Budgeting, balancing a checkbook, taxes, sales- the list goes on.

Idk. It's not for us.
jen2150
by Silver Member on Jan. 22, 2014 at 3:46 PM
I think you missed the point of what I was saying. Having a basic understanding is important. History is important. I cringe when unschoolers say knowing history, art, literature, the Presidents, or math are not important. It is not what John Holt was trying to do. Learning is important but it should never be forced. I condider myself a guide. Children will obviously have areas they know more but they should have a basic understanding by adulthood. I am not a mechanic but having a basic understanding will help me maintain my vehicle. There are many ways to learn about those things and many of them are exciting and fun. I hated math in school but now I realize how much fun it is. I am teaching a creative math class. Math is everywhere and extremely important. If my children walk away and say any subject is not important then I failed them. They are not going to love everything but they will understand its importance. My sons are 10 and 11 and I have yet come across anything they don't enjoy learning. They don't enjoy writing but that is an age thing. My oldest is now getting into writing now that is older. It is mostly about timing.

Quoting paganbaby:

At minimum, I think having a basic understanding of American history, math skills, reading, writing, technology, home ec, biology and earth science is important. Beyond that, it's really up to the individual.

Not being able to name every single president, imo, isn't a crime. Neither is not knowing how to change brakes on a car (mechanics) or how to help a cow give birth (animal husbandry) or how to soothe a fussy baby or calm a tantruming toddler (early childhood development)

Saying you cringe because an unschooler doesn't put the same emphasis on the same subjects you do, makes me cringe. Yes, all subjects are important 'to someone' but they're not nessecary to everyone.

Quoting jen2150: It is all important. We retain what is important to us. History is important. Understanding history is critical to understanding how our government works and where we stand on important issues and why. Math is important. Michael Faraday did not have adequate math training. He was essentially self taught. For years he tried to prove his theories but couldn't because he lacked mathematical knowledge. If you want to have good health you need a basic understanding of how the human body functions. Logic and reasoning is important. Reading is important to function and be self sufficient. Higher math is not for everyone but basic understanding is useful for everyone. We are not all going to be historians but a basic understanding of history will help to understand what is going on. Knowing the constitution and our presidents is important for every American. I think that having a basic understanding of all the subjects is important. My sons hate writing but it is important for them to write well when they are older. I am not concerned though. The older they get the more they enjoy it. My son in 5th grade decided he wanted to write a book out of the blue. Writing is something that comes later for many children. Just because they are not interested does not mean they won't be at a later time. My son's are taking computer science. I have no idea if they are going to be going into a computer field but they will have a basic understanding of it. If they do not want to study computers then I would just wait till they are interested. Just because my kids are not ready for something doesn't mean it is not important later on. I can't think of any information or subject that is not important to learn. Unschooling at its core is about opening up the joy of learning to a child. I don't see how telling people that learning about the presidents is not important is the right way to go. It is doing them a disservice. I do not force my children to learn anything but all knowledge is important.



Quoting paganbaby:
Quoting jen2150: I also wanted to add as unschoolers how important for us to be models for our children. We need to reawaken our thirst for knowledge. We also need to learn why history is important. If you don't understand why knowing about the presidents is important then you first need to discover why it is important. I find myself cringing every time an unschooler says something is not important for kids to know. I recognize there is a right time for everything. All information is important. It just might not be the right time. There is not a subject we have learned about that does not have a very good reason for learning the material. It is not what schools are teaching that I have a problem with but how they are teaching it.(as l0ng as it is accurate)

There's a lot of information out there. What do you feel is absolutely necessary for kids to know?


jjchick75
by Member on Jan. 22, 2014 at 3:58 PM
I have mixed feelings about it. I love to let my 5 year old explore his own interest. He loves dinosaurs. I have found using dinosaurs makes it easier to teach him everything lol. If I want him to read I pull out a book about dinosaurs and he'll read it 4 or 5 times. But I think there has to be some structure. One day your child is going to have to enter the real world and they need to at least be able to read, write, and do basic math. I'm not willing to hope and pray that through their play and exploration they pick up those skills. I think a good balance is key.
xomrs.chase
by Member on Jan. 22, 2014 at 3:58 PM
Excuse my French, but holy shit. D:

Quoting usmom3:

 READ THIS


I am not saying there is anything wrong with it I am saying she is a fake!


Quoting paganbaby:

What's wrong with being a radical unschooler? And how is she a charlatan?


Quoting usmom3:

 Dana Martin is a very poor example of unschoolers!


 1 Because she is a radical unschooler!


 2 Because it has come to light in the past few years that she is a charlatan!


Knowing who the past presidents are & the other people in the questions will be learned when the information is important to the child to know.


My younger children (age 10 & 8) know who George Washington, William Shakespeare & Mark Twain are. They know who they are because they have been introduced to them through things like the Magic Tree House books & it made them curious to know more about them. They know more historically famous people then they do pop culture famous people!




 

jjchick75
by Member on Jan. 22, 2014 at 4:31 PM
That is insane!

Quoting usmom3:

 READ THIS


I am not saying there is anything wrong with it I am saying she is a fake!


Quoting paganbaby:

What's wrong with being a radical unschooler? And how is she a charlatan?


Quoting usmom3:

 Dana Martin is a very poor example of unschoolers!


 1 Because she is a radical unschooler!


 2 Because it has come to light in the past few years that she is a charlatan!


Knowing who the past presidents are & the other people in the questions will be learned when the information is important to the child to know.


My younger children (age 10 & 8) know who George Washington, William Shakespeare & Mark Twain are. They know who they are because they have been introduced to them through things like the Magic Tree House books & it made them curious to know more about them. They know more historically famous people then they do pop culture famous people!




 

paganbaby
by Silver Member on Jan. 22, 2014 at 4:50 PM

I get that. But my point is, you can still be a success in life without knowing history, the arts or great literature. You may be a boring conversationalist in some circles, but those subjects are not key to having a successful life. Being able to read, write, grasp real word math, figure out the weather and plan accordingly, and understand our bodily functions, on the other hand, is important and nessecary no matter where you are in life.

I think that's where we differ. Important to me, translates into nessecary. In my mind, it's simply not. Yes, it would be nice if all children were exposed to these subjects at some point in their homeschool education, but I don't see it as a crime if they don't.

Btw, that's awesome that your ds decided to write a book :-)

Quoting jen2150: I think you missed the point of what I was saying. Having a basic understanding is important. History is important. I cringe when unschoolers say knowing history, art, literature, the Presidents, or math are not important. It is not what John Holt was trying to do. Learning is important but it should never be forced. I condider myself a guide. Children will obviously have areas they know more but they should have a basic understanding by adulthood. I am not a mechanic but having a basic understanding will help me maintain my vehicle. There are many ways to learn about those things and many of them are exciting and fun. I hated math in school but now I realize how much fun it is. I am teaching a creative math class. Math is everywhere and extremely important. If my children walk away and say any subject is not important then I failed them. They are not going to love everything but they will understand its importance. My sons are 10 and 11 and I have yet come across anything they don't enjoy learning. They don't enjoy writing but that is an age thing. My oldest is now getting into writing now that is older. It is mostly about timing.

Quoting paganbaby:

At minimum, I think having a basic understanding of American history, math skills, reading, writing, technology, home ec, biology and earth science is important. Beyond that, it's really up to the individual.

Not being able to name every single president, imo, isn't a crime. Neither is not knowing how to change brakes on a car (mechanics) or how to help a cow give birth (animal husbandry) or how to soothe a fussy baby or calm a tantruming toddler (early childhood development)

Saying you cringe because an unschooler doesn't put the same emphasis on the same subjects you do, makes me cringe. Yes, all subjects are important 'to someone' but they're not nessecary to everyone.

Quoting jen2150: It is all important. We retain what is important to us. History is important. Understanding history is critical to understanding how our government works and where we stand on important issues and why. Math is important. Michael Faraday did not have adequate math training. He was essentially self taught. For years he tried to prove his theories but couldn't because he lacked mathematical knowledge. If you want to have good health you need a basic understanding of how the human body functions. Logic and reasoning is important. Reading is important to function and be self sufficient. Higher math is not for everyone but basic understanding is useful for everyone. We are not all going to be historians but a basic understanding of history will help to understand what is going on. Knowing the constitution and our presidents is important for every American. I think that having a basic understanding of all the subjects is important. My sons hate writing but it is important for them to write well when they are older. I am not concerned though. The older they get the more they enjoy it. My son in 5th grade decided he wanted to write a book out of the blue. Writing is something that comes later for many children. Just because they are not interested does not mean they won't be at a later time. My son's are taking computer science. I have no idea if they are going to be going into a computer field but they will have a basic understanding of it. If they do not want to study computers then I would just wait till they are interested. Just because my kids are not ready for something doesn't mean it is not important later on. I can't think of any information or subject that is not important to learn. Unschooling at its core is about opening up the joy of learning to a child. I don't see how telling people that learning about the presidents is not important is the right way to go. It is doing them a disservice. I do not force my children to learn anything but all knowledge is important.



Quoting paganbaby:
Quoting jen2150: I also wanted to add as unschoolers how important for us to be models for our children. We need to reawaken our thirst for knowledge. We also need to learn why history is important. If you don't understand why knowing about the presidents is important then you first need to discover why it is important. I find myself cringing every time an unschooler says something is not important for kids to know. I recognize there is a right time for everything. All information is important. It just might not be the right time. There is not a subject we have learned about that does not have a very good reason for learning the material. It is not what schools are teaching that I have a problem with but how they are teaching it.(as l0ng as it is accurate)

There's a lot of information out there. What do you feel is absolutely necessary for kids to know?





I will not have a temper tantrum nor stomp across the floor.


I will not pout, scream or shout or kick against the door.

I will not throw my food around nor pick upon another.

I’ll always try to be real good because I am the mother.

I am the mother.

I am the mother.














ambcortez
by Member on Jan. 22, 2014 at 4:58 PM

I personally disagree with her method, but I'm not going to criticise her for her choices. I'm very much for routine and set bedtimes. I think if I were a full-time SAHM, maybe the bedtimes could be more lax, but to just treat every day like a Saturday is something I can't do.

celtic77dragon
by Member on Jan. 22, 2014 at 5:06 PM

My bad - sorry about that. 

I work 3rd shift and responded prior to laying down. My brain must not have been comprehending what I was reading in that last paragraph.  

Quoting Chasing3:

I thought I answered that:

But I think there is value in having some basic recognition of those names and simialr ones in history, science, literature, politics, etc that are important in your own culture, ya know? 



Quoting celtic77dragon:

Do you think the people in those countries know significant information about their own countries (people, events, documents, and laws that had a significant impact on their country and way of life). I was going to add especially if they have the right to vote and make changes within their country -- however, not being given the right doesn't mean you can't still effect change. 

The interviewer was asking an American about American historical figures.


Quoting Chasing3:

well, I think the point can be made that there are tons of successful people in the world who don't know those names - because they grew up in Asia, EUrope, South America, Africa or wherever... I mean, they might know some of them vaguely. But we probably don't know ANY of their historical and political figures or authors or cultural icons - especially since we are so western and eurocentric in our culture in the US.

But I think there is value in having some basic recognition of those names and simialr ones in history, science, literature, politics, etc that are important in your own culture, ya know? 




Ecoseem
by Member on Jan. 22, 2014 at 5:09 PM

As a public schooled person, I could not answer any of those, even in school.  That would be my response to that.

"Parent" is a verb.

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