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separation of church and state

I have never really explored CM much beyond the education and book club groups. I wanted to find a group to join that discussed a wide range of topics. Anyone have any suggestions?  

I am specifically trying to find somewhere to ask about separation of church and state; what the actual laws are regarding religion in the schools. There was a case in Tx that got me thinking about this recently.

by on Jan. 25, 2014 at 6:15 PM
Replies (41-50):
romacox
by Silver Member on Jan. 28, 2014 at 7:13 AM
2 moms liked this

I remember when we had the best education in the world.  People came from all over the world to be educated here... We have now fallen to middle range.     The more control the government has exercised over public education , the worse it has become.  As it worsens, the government imposes more regulation, and the cycle continues. 


kirbymom
by Sonja on Jan. 28, 2014 at 9:35 AM
I'm not anti-government either! I'm just anti STUPID government. And quite frankly, that is exactly what we have right now.



Quoting romacox:

I remember when we had the best education in the world.  People came from all over the world to be educated here... We have now fallen to middle range.     The more control the government has exercised over public education , the worse it has become.  As it worsens, the government imposes more regulation, and the cycle continues. 

romacox
by Silver Member on Jan. 28, 2014 at 10:39 AM
1 mom liked this

Is it stupid, deliberate, or both? In the following video Hillary Clinton says that Americans should not worry, because the people causing the problems are the very same people who will solve them. That sounds pretty deliberate.


On the CFR website, they clearly spell out what their goals are. There are many well educated people who sincerely  believe that an elite group of people  to rule over us would create  world peace, solve  world hunger. , control out of control population growth, and create "sustainable development and energy".  They see the Constitution and sovereignty of nations as an obstruction to their goals. I have friends who believe this way, and openly say so. They do not believe men should rule over themselves as the Founders, Plato and Gandhi believed. Obviously  It is not a conspiracy, it is a difference in ideology. They also believe that the new technology will help them advance their cause,if theycan get control of it.

Senator Barry Goldwater wrote in his book."With No Apologies", Does it not seem strange to you that these men  just happen to be CFR (Council On Foreign Relations), and just happen to be on the board of governors of the Federal Reserve that absolutely controls the money and interest of this Country.. A privately owned organization ...which has noting to do with the United States Of America!"

CFR Membership List (from their website)

Quoting kirbymom: I'm not anti-government either! I'm just anti STUPID government. And quite frankly, that is exactly what we have right now.



Quoting romacox:

I remember when we had the best education in the world.  People came from all over the world to be educated here... We have now fallen to middle range.     The more control the government has exercised over public education , the worse it has become.  As it worsens, the government imposes more regulation, and the cycle continues. 


kirbymom
by Sonja on Jan. 28, 2014 at 9:11 PM
I do think it is stupid but I also believe that it is deliberate.
There is more going on than the visible eyes can see or the ears can hear and detect. This is an interesting video. Thanks for putting it up.
Oh and that list is also quite interesting. Did you notice all the last names? :)


Quoting romacox:

Is it stupid, deliberate, or both? In the following video Hillary Clinton says that Americans should not worry, because the people causing the problems are the very same people who will solve them. That sounds pretty deliberate.

On the CFR website, they clearly spell out what their goals are. There are many well educated people who sincerely  believe that an elite group of people  to rule over us would create  world peace, solve  world hunger. , control out of control population growth, and create "sustainable development and energy".  They see the Constitution and sovereignty of nations as an obstruction to their goals. I have friends who believe this way, and openly say so. They do not believe men should rule over themselves as the Founders, Plato and Gandhi believed. Obviously  It is not a conspiracy, it is a difference in ideology. They also believe that the new technology will help them advance their cause,if theycan get control of it.

Senator Barry Goldwater wrote in his book."With No Apologies", Does it not seem strange to you that these men  just happen to be CFR (Council On Foreign Relations), and just happen to be on the board of governors of the Federal Reserve that absolutely controls the money and interest of this Country.. A privately owned organization ...which has noting to do with the United States Of America!"

CFR Membership List (from their website)

Quoting kirbymom: I'm not anti-government either! I'm just anti STUPID government. And quite frankly, that is exactly what we have right now.



Quoting romacox:

I remember when we had the best education in the world.  People came from all over the world to be educated here... We have now fallen to middle range.     The more control the government has exercised over public education , the worse it has become.  As it worsens, the government imposes more regulation, and the cycle continues. 

Knightquester
by Bronze Member on Jan. 28, 2014 at 9:27 PM
2 moms liked this

There's a search bar at the top right part of cafemom, when I searched for you I found a few groups on here that might fit your criteria, however I have never joined any as it's not an interest of mine.

There's a:

Current Events and Hot Topics Group: http://www.cafemom.com/group/99198/?ct=search_group

Religious Debate Group: http://www.cafemom.com/group/218/?ct=search_group

News & Social Commentary Group: http://www.cafemom.com/group/115862/?ct=search_group

News and Politics Group: http://www.cafemom.com/group/115890/?ct=search_group

romacox
by Silver Member on Jan. 29, 2014 at 7:03 AM
1 mom liked this

Yes Kirbymom, I have noticed some of he last names, and when you search the sight you find several other names not listed who head up some of their committees.  After searching their website, I was amazed to find out just how many things they are involved in.   The International Monetary Fund, and The World Trade Organization also talk about a  "One World Governing Power." The IMF   talks about a "one world curriency" too,  and say they "receive their direction from the World Bank".  But the CFR website is the most interesting one to look through.  Google  CFR Jeb Bush,  and see what you find...that is interesting too. 

Quoting kirbymom: I do think it is stupid but I also believe that it is deliberate.
There is more going on than the visible eyes can see or the ears can hear and detect. This is an interesting video. Thanks for putting it up.
Oh and that list is also quite interesting. Did you notice all the last names? :)


Quoting romacox:

Is it stupid, deliberate, or both? In the following video Hillary Clinton says that Americans should not worry, because the people causing the problems are the very same people who will solve them. That sounds pretty deliberate.

On the CFR website, they clearly spell out what their goals are. There are many well educated people who sincerely  believe that an elite group of people  to rule over us would create  world peace, solve  world hunger. , control out of control population growth, and create "sustainable development and energy".  They see the Constitution and sovereignty of nations as an obstruction to their goals. I have friends who believe this way, and openly say so. They do not believe men should rule over themselves as the Founders, Plato and Gandhi believed. Obviously  It is not a conspiracy, it is a difference in ideology. They also believe that the new technology will help them advance their cause,if theycan get control of it.

Senator Barry Goldwater wrote in his book."With No Apologies", Does it not seem strange to you that these men  just happen to be CFR (Council On Foreign Relations), and just happen to be on the board of governors of the Federal Reserve that absolutely controls the money and interest of this Country.. A privately owned organization ...which has noting to do with the United States Of America!"

CFR Membership List (from their website)

Quoting kirbymom: I'm not anti-government either! I'm just anti STUPID government. And quite frankly, that is exactly what we have right now.



Quoting romacox:

I remember when we had the best education in the world.  People came from all over the world to be educated here... We have now fallen to middle range.     The more control the government has exercised over public education , the worse it has become.  As it worsens, the government imposes more regulation, and the cycle continues. 



romacox
by Silver Member on Jan. 29, 2014 at 7:30 AM
1 mom liked this

A timeless quote From Thomas Jefferson:  "The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history, whether man will be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite."

celtic77dragon
by Member on Jan. 29, 2014 at 8:44 AM

There were a few back then that also questioned whether so much trust should be in the hands of the people - especially to a future society.

The founding fathers never meant for the government to be lacking in oversight - for mankind to solely self govern themselves. Yet, sometimes it feels like some people want the government out of everything; for the people to self govern themselves in most aspects. I just can not disagree enough with it though. A balance is always needed. 

There was a middle ground that they were trying to acheive. We have failed to see it as country for a VERY long time (hell, our founding fathers failed to even see some of it). I can still see many of the same divides. The same crack that splits this country into two now, is the same one that ever was. I refuse to fall onto either side of it.

In Lincolns address he even mentions how we had taken on such an enmorous challenge and only time would tell if it was possible or not. 

While it is indeed a beautiful concept - and I even think a few truly believed in it - the cynic in me feels that it is naive to believe that this country was ever meant to be governed by all the people.

A look into American history tells me that. The Indians were ran off the land, blacks were slaves, women had zero rights, child labor was at one time common, many were uneducated and poor, immigrants have a history of being treated as third rate citizens... That only has EVER left a small elite group! Tell how much any of this has changed. I mean REALLY changed. The changes are small and I can show you how society has combatted every minor victory that any of these group have made. 

I will leave the Americana debates for others though. I have read a fair amount - but not enough. It just doesn't all add up in my book. 


Quoting romacox:

A timeless quote From Thomas Jefferson:  "The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history, whether man will be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite."


mem82
by Platinum Member on Jan. 29, 2014 at 10:07 AM
2 moms liked this
I see nothing wrong with a personal Bible on a desk, nor kids wearing shirts that state their personal beliefs. I believe that posters cross the line in the class room but I don't believe that long standing pictures or quotes that have been there since the school opening should be removed. They are part of the history of the building and people should be tolerant. I don't care if someone gets their panties in a twist. I don't freak out when someone covers their hair, or doesn't bow their heads during prayer. I don't demand that religion be hid from m eyes, even if it isn't my own. Honestly, militant atheists are pathetic in the same way West Borough(sp?) are pathetic.
romacox
by Silver Member on Jan. 29, 2014 at 10:41 AM
2 moms liked this

"The founders never meant for the government to be lacking in oversight."  That is true.  The Constitution leaves men free unless they commit a crime (harm another).  Then the judicial system of the government can step in. 

"Some people want government out of everything".  Those who support the Constitution obviously  do support a government...the Constitution creates one.   However:  the government does not have unlimited powers...only those 18  enumerated in the Constitution.  States were given more power...the reason for that is explained here. The History Behind The Bill Of Rights. 

"a balance is always needed"   & "governed by all the people". Government by all the people  is a democracy & the Founders did not create a democracy...they created a republic...(the balance you speak of)  Unfortunately too many people today  do not know that, because public education has deceived them. The following video will explain that far better than I.

i

The Indians and blacks:  had we been following the Constitution, what happened to the Indians and blacks would never have happened.  But even people who profess to support the Constitution, will trash it when it so suits them especially when they have never read or understood it.

If I thought the Constitution created what you thought it created, I would not like it either.  There is a clause in the original Constitution though that I would change, but only because it may have left government too much power to control commerce.  I would also void the 16Th and 17Th amendments (both added in 1913), because they have allowed too much corruption, and shenanigans in government. 

Can man be allowed to govern his own affairs when he is not harming others, or does he need an elite group to control  him?  That is an age old, and ongoing debate, and we won't all agree on that.  . 


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