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Homeschooling Moms Homeschooling Moms

Indoctrinization OR Overzealousness

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Ran into this article and found it to be quite interesting. I didn't post the whole article as it was extremely long. So I just posted the first paragraph.



Some friends came to us this week, troubled, to ask our advice. It seems their youngest son came home from school on Monday and asked – begged – to be homeschooled.
His request has been a recurrent theme during the past few months, but it took on a particular urgency on Monday when his biology teacher required all the students to sing a song praising Common Core.


Read more at http://mobile.wnd.com/2014/02/hands-off-our-children-big-brother/#UQVXdLLIhiMQaxFH.99


What do You think?

  

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by on Feb. 9, 2014 at 4:35 PM
Replies (11-20):
letstalk747
by on Feb. 9, 2014 at 10:51 PM

 this

Quoting Jenn8604: Whether or not it's overzealousness or indoctrination I sure don't like common core period. I've read up on it. It does not belong in schools.


katyq
by Member on Feb. 10, 2014 at 12:51 AM


Why don't you like it, if I may ask?

Quoting Jenn8604: Whether or not it's overzealousness or indoctrination I sure don't like common core period. I've read up on it. It does not belong in schools.


Jenn8604
by Member on Feb. 10, 2014 at 1:58 AM
Why dont you actually read up on it and I'm sure you can figure it out.

Quoting katyq:


Why don't you like it, if I may ask?

Quoting Jenn8604: Whether or not it's overzealousness or indoctrination I sure don't like common core period. I've read up on it. It does not belong in schools.


Posted on CafeMom Mobile
katyq
by Member on Feb. 10, 2014 at 2:27 AM

I actually know quite a bit about it. That is why I don't understand your view. I think it is exactly what America needs. 

Quoting Jenn8604: Why dont you actually read up on it and I'm sure you can figure it out.

Quoting katyq:


Why don't you like it, if I may ask?

Quoting Jenn8604: Whether or not it's overzealousness or indoctrination I sure don't like common core period. I've read up on it. It does not belong in schools.



romacox
by Silver Member on Feb. 10, 2014 at 6:45 AM
1 mom liked this

 You are correct AutymsMommy,

According to research done by Smithsonian, Finish schools are now number one (a position U.S. schools once held), their teachers are paid less than our teachers, and the government does not control the curriculum (Teachers do). Teachers often write their own curriculum.  Following are some more their research revealed:

  • Teachers are empowered to “do what ever it takes to help the individual  child learn.”   (now we have to home school to accomplish that. In America the home educated children outperform their public schooled counterparts, and that is true even if the educator has no degree. )
  • Compulsory schooling does not begin until age 7. “We have no hurry,” said Louhivuori. “Children learn better when they are ready. Why stress them out?”
  • Testing is not the major measure of learning. Timo Heikkinen, a Helsinki principal with 24 years of teaching experience. “If you only measure the statistics, you miss the human aspect.” “We prepare children to learn how to learn, not how to take a test,” said Pasi Sahlberg,
  • Play is a big part of teaching (Whole Brain Teaching).  “Play is important at this age,” Rintola would later say. “We value play.” Children spend far more time playing outside, even in the depths of winter. Homework is minimal.
  • “Finland spends about 30 percent less per student than the United States”, and provides more individualized attention.
  • Source:  http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/why-are-finlands-schools-successful-49859555/ 

Conclusion:  The reason Government run schools ("No child left behind", and "Common Core")  fail is because one size does not fit all.  The educator needs to be empowered to do whatever it takes to reach each individual child....even if that requires writing their own curriculum as many home educators do. 

Quoting AutymsMommy:

The big difference between our attempt at a national curriculum, and that in other countries, is that (generally speaking; correct me if I'm wrong) in other countries a teacher's value is known and THEY have a heavy hand in making that curriculum. Here, it is made by those in a position of power with NO classroom experience.


Chasing3
by Bronze Member on Feb. 10, 2014 at 7:38 AM
1 mom liked this

FInland has, since the 1970's, put a huge emphasis on equality in their schools. This means not allowing the inequitable funding we see in the US - where we have deplorable urban schools that are falling apart and have no resources, while the weathly suburbs have beautiful buildings, the latest technology, and a multitutde of course offerings and extra curricular activities.

I"m fairly convinced the biggest problem with public education in america is that we have gross disparity of income and allow impoverished children to suffer without basic needs that would emable them to learn and perform at the same level as their wealth peers. And we expect public school teachers to be the ones who solve these social problems by having super-powers that will teach these kids to read, write and love learning and therefore overcome their economic disadvantages.

http://www.ncee.org/programs-affiliates/center-on-international-education-benchmarking/top-performing-countries/finland-overview/finland-education-for-all/ 

http://www.nea.org/home/40991.htm

I would really recommend anyone who wants to learn as much as they can about common core to read books by and the blog by Diane Ravitch. Her blog cites multiple news articles daily on the insanity of the implementation of common core and the dangers of the privatization movement of public schools. Unfortunately, rarely does the potential impact of CC on homeschooling ever get touched upon, since it's a public school issue. But I do greatly fear that if "education reform" continues on this current track, homeschooling will become heavily regulated.

bluerooffarm
by Gold Member on Feb. 10, 2014 at 9:21 AM
1 mom liked this

Common Core is not a conspiracy because it is national.  Common Core is a conspiracy because it was developed by publishers, by testing and curriculum developers, and by corporate interests and NOT developed by teachers.

Some of the comments on this thread really bothered me.  With one breath they are saying that teachers in other countries are valued and in the next they seem to be saying that the teachers in America should not be valued because anyone can do it.  That is simply not true.  Teachers in America are given just as rigorous of an education as other nations.  They are expected to reach their Master's Degree before they are allowed to be completely on their own in a classroom.  They are placed under a Mentor Teacher and a Department Chair.  They are watched very closely over the first 8-10 years of their teaching carreer.  Plus if they do not earn an A in their student teaching course (typically 16 credits of teaching under a certified teacher in a real classroom where one must create and implement the unit plans for a semester of learning) then they are only going to get a job teaching in the inner city schools.

To me, that speaks much more of the gross inequity we have in wealth distribution and much less of the education of our teachers.  

As for the article itself...I do think it is a bit of indoctrination.  Here's why.... Utilizing the singing technique in teaching is typically to teach things that are unchangeable, solid, foundation materials.  We typically used songs to teach thing such as the elements, the states and capitals, the math facts.  This technique typically ends in elementary school, but every once in a while resurfaces when the kids just cannot seem to learn to memorize something (the countries in Africa, although that one got all murky since they DO keep changing).

Using a song to sing the praises of common core, does seem to cross that line.  It is teaching these kids that this is the way, the only way, that will be acceptable in America.  It is distasteful to me.

Although IMO the article was definately overzealous in its Nazi comparisons.  These types of comparisons always take the minds to the most horrific parts of the Nazi party's solutions to its "problems."  It is wrong to make such comparisons to anyone that is not killing millions of people with its practices.

TidewaterClan
by on Feb. 10, 2014 at 9:42 AM

These are good points Blue.  I, myself, didn't know teachers had that much training the first decade of their careers.

This is JMO, but one HUGE thing the Finish, Singapore, etc., teachers have going for them is RESPECT.  Teachers are held in as high regard as doctors because they are forming minds.  If our teachers had such respect it would make such a difference.

Three years of volunteering really opened my eyes as to what our teachers are up against.  Last year's 2nd grade class with 10/22 children acting up EVERY single day, even arguing with the teacher that a picture of a dark blue sky with moon and stars was the day, was just horrible.  How in the world was she supposed to work with that?  The principal even sat in multiple times and the same children still acted up.  

The fifth grade class had two who would hit others right in front of their teacher, or stand in her chair if she had her back turned.

I'm not for capitol punishment, but when I was young there was a boy who got sent to the principal's office ONCE and that's all it took for everyone to behave!  We heard stories of the paddle with holes for aerodynamic purposes.  :|  No one wanted a taste of that!

Quoting bluerooffarm:

Common Core is not a conspiracy because it is national.  Common Core is a conspiracy because it was developed by publishers, by testing and curriculum developers, and by corporate interests and NOT developed by teachers.

Some of the comments on this thread really bothered me.  With one breath they are saying that teachers in other countries are valued and in the next they seem to be saying that the teachers in America should not be valued because anyone can do it.  That is simply not true.  Teachers in America are given just as rigorous of an education as other nations.  They are expected to reach their Master's Degree before they are allowed to be completely on their own in a classroom.  They are placed under a Mentor Teacher and a Department Chair.  They are watched very closely over the first 8-10 years of their teaching carreer.  Plus if they do not earn an A in their student teaching course (typically 16 credits of teaching under a certified teacher in a real classroom where one must create and implement the unit plans for a semester of learning) then they are only going to get a job teaching in the inner city schools.

To me, that speaks much more of the gross inequity we have in wealth distribution and much less of the education of our teachers.  

As for the article itself...I do think it is a bit of indoctrination.  Here's why.... Utilizing the singing technique in teaching is typically to teach things that are unchangeable, solid, foundation materials.  We typically used songs to teach thing such as the elements, the states and capitals, the math facts.  This technique typically ends in elementary school, but every once in a while resurfaces when the kids just cannot seem to learn to memorize something (the countries in Africa, although that one got all murky since they DO keep changing).

Using a song to sing the praises of common core, does seem to cross that line.  It is teaching these kids that this is the way, the only way, that will be acceptable in America.  It is distasteful to me.

Although IMO the article was definately overzealous in its Nazi comparisons.  These types of comparisons always take the minds to the most horrific parts of the Nazi party's solutions to its "problems."  It is wrong to make such comparisons to anyone that is not killing millions of people with its practices.


bluerooffarm
by Gold Member on Feb. 10, 2014 at 10:10 AM
1 mom liked this

I have a feeling that in the inner city schools where they do higher the less qualified, they also probably do not have the oversight as the richer schools, but again it in my mind is more about disparity of economics than it is training.  

I was shocked in my teaching career with how disrespectful, not ony the kids, but also the parents were!  It would make such a difference just to have that respect!  You are so right!  The parents have this idea (based on those who can do, those who can't teach) that anyone can be a teacher.  While I still believe anyone who truly wants to CAN teach their own kids, standing in front of a group of 25-35 kids is a very different thing.  Plus IMHO the CCS should have set a class limit.  So many more problems occur when the class size gets out of control!  They feed off each other, the disrespect grows exponentially as the class size goes up.  When one child in the classroom has a parent who disparages the teacher at home, it is like a cancer spreading through the classroom.  Soon you are calling parents that you would never have had to call in the past.

Sorry, getting away from the topic, but that always bugged me!

When I was in PS, we had one of those paddles too!  There were 3 teachers that were the designated spankers.  Yikes!  I would never allow the school to spank my kids, but there does need to be some kind of punishment that actually has teeth!  

We also had after school detention.  I am all for that coming back.  And there should be no school sanctioned way home from that detention.  If your child was acting up in school and got a detention because of it, IMO, YOU should be the one that needs to find them a way home!  (general you of course).  But parents won't go for that anymore.  They really fight after school detentions because their kids are in so many activities and they all work and excuse and excuse and excuse!  In my school after school detention was worse than spanking!  By a long shot!  To miss band practice or dance class or soccer because you smarted off to Mr. Smith was sooooo embarassing.

Quoting TidewaterClan:

These are good points Blue.  I, myself, didn't know teachers had that much training the first decade of their careers.

This is JMO, but one HUGE thing the Finish, Singapore, etc., teachers have going for them is RESPECT.  Teachers are held in as high regard as doctors because they are forming minds.  If our teachers had such respect it would make such a difference.

Three years of volunteering really opened my eyes as to what our teachers are up against.  Last year's 2nd grade class with 10/22 children acting up EVERY single day, even arguing with the teacher that a picture of a dark blue sky with moon and stars was the day, was just horrible.  How in the world was she supposed to work with that?  The principal even sat in multiple times and the same children still acted up.  

The fifth grade class had two who would hit others right in front of their teacher, or stand in her chair if she had her back turned.

I'm not for capitol punishment, but when I was young there was a boy who got sent to the principal's office ONCE and that's all it took for everyone to behave!  We heard stories of the paddle with holes for aerodynamic purposes.  :|  No one wanted a taste of that!

Quoting bluerooffarm:

Common Core is not a conspiracy because it is national.  Common Core is a conspiracy because it was developed by publishers, by testing and curriculum developers, and by corporate interests and NOT developed by teachers.

Some of the comments on this thread really bothered me.  With one breath they are saying that teachers in other countries are valued and in the next they seem to be saying that the teachers in America should not be valued because anyone can do it.  That is simply not true.  Teachers in America are given just as rigorous of an education as other nations.  They are expected to reach their Master's Degree before they are allowed to be completely on their own in a classroom.  They are placed under a Mentor Teacher and a Department Chair.  They are watched very closely over the first 8-10 years of their teaching carreer.  Plus if they do not earn an A in their student teaching course (typically 16 credits of teaching under a certified teacher in a real classroom where one must create and implement the unit plans for a semester of learning) then they are only going to get a job teaching in the inner city schools.

To me, that speaks much more of the gross inequity we have in wealth distribution and much less of the education of our teachers.  

As for the article itself...I do think it is a bit of indoctrination.  Here's why.... Utilizing the singing technique in teaching is typically to teach things that are unchangeable, solid, foundation materials.  We typically used songs to teach thing such as the elements, the states and capitals, the math facts.  This technique typically ends in elementary school, but every once in a while resurfaces when the kids just cannot seem to learn to memorize something (the countries in Africa, although that one got all murky since they DO keep changing).

Using a song to sing the praises of common core, does seem to cross that line.  It is teaching these kids that this is the way, the only way, that will be acceptable in America.  It is distasteful to me.

Although IMO the article was definately overzealous in its Nazi comparisons.  These types of comparisons always take the minds to the most horrific parts of the Nazi party's solutions to its "problems."  It is wrong to make such comparisons to anyone that is not killing millions of people with its practices.



TidewaterClan
by on Feb. 10, 2014 at 10:34 AM

No kidding on the parents!  There was a presentation in the 2nd grade last year where the students had formed groups and researched countries.  The boy who was always causing issues was sassing the teacher in the most hateful way.  His mother narrowed her eyes like she dared the teacher to say anything.  I looked at him and told him that wasn't an appropriate way to talk to her.  Ha ha lady!  Same thing with the 6th grade class.  It's all good until little Tommy or Sally get in REAL trouble and mom & dad can't bail them out or get their jobs back!

Detention IS a great way to handle kids.  I got it once in high school for carrying a drink out of the cafeteria.  That learned me!

Not trying to take over your post Sonja, I promise!  I just feel for the teachers based on what I've witnessed!

Quoting bluerooffarm:

I have a feeling that in the inner city schools where they do higher the less qualified, they also probably do not have the oversight as the richer schools, but again it in my mind is more about disparity of economics than it is training.  

I was shocked in my teaching career with how disrespectful, not ony the kids, but also the parents were!  It would make such a difference just to have that respect!  You are so right!  The parents have this idea (based on those who can do, those who can't teach) that anyone can be a teacher.  While I still believe anyone who truly wants to CAN teach their own kids, standing in front of a group of 25-35 kids is a very different thing.  Plus IMHO the CCS should have set a class limit.  So many more problems occur when the class size gets out of control!  They feed off each other, the disrespect grows exponentially as the class size goes up.  When one child in the classroom has a parent who disparages the teacher at home, it is like a cancer spreading through the classroom.  Soon you are calling parents that you would never have had to call in the past.

Sorry, getting away from the topic, but that always bugged me!

When I was in PS, we had one of those paddles too!  There were 3 teachers that were the designated spankers.  Yikes!  I would never allow the school to spank my kids, but there does need to be some kind of punishment that actually has teeth!  

We also had after school detention.  I am all for that coming back.  And there should be no school sanctioned way home from that detention.  If your child was acting up in school and got a detention because of it, IMO, YOU should be the one that needs to find them a way home!  (general you of course).  But parents won't go for that anymore.  They really fight after school detentions because their kids are in so many activities and they all work and excuse and excuse and excuse!  In my school after school detention was worse than spanking!  By a long shot!  To miss band practice or dance class or soccer because you smarted off to Mr. Smith was sooooo embarassing.

Quoting TidewaterClan:

These are good points Blue.  I, myself, didn't know teachers had that much training the first decade of their careers.

This is JMO, but one HUGE thing the Finish, Singapore, etc., teachers have going for them is RESPECT.  Teachers are held in as high regard as doctors because they are forming minds.  If our teachers had such respect it would make such a difference.

Three years of volunteering really opened my eyes as to what our teachers are up against.  Last year's 2nd grade class with 10/22 children acting up EVERY single day, even arguing with the teacher that a picture of a dark blue sky with moon and stars was the day, was just horrible.  How in the world was she supposed to work with that?  The principal even sat in multiple times and the same children still acted up.  

The fifth grade class had two who would hit others right in front of their teacher, or stand in her chair if she had her back turned.

I'm not for capitol punishment, but when I was young there was a boy who got sent to the principal's office ONCE and that's all it took for everyone to behave!  We heard stories of the paddle with holes for aerodynamic purposes.  :|  No one wanted a taste of that!

Quoting bluerooffarm:

Common Core is not a conspiracy because it is national.  Common Core is a conspiracy because it was developed by publishers, by testing and curriculum developers, and by corporate interests and NOT developed by teachers.

Some of the comments on this thread really bothered me.  With one breath they are saying that teachers in other countries are valued and in the next they seem to be saying that the teachers in America should not be valued because anyone can do it.  That is simply not true.  Teachers in America are given just as rigorous of an education as other nations.  They are expected to reach their Master's Degree before they are allowed to be completely on their own in a classroom.  They are placed under a Mentor Teacher and a Department Chair.  They are watched very closely over the first 8-10 years of their teaching carreer.  Plus if they do not earn an A in their student teaching course (typically 16 credits of teaching under a certified teacher in a real classroom where one must create and implement the unit plans for a semester of learning) then they are only going to get a job teaching in the inner city schools.

To me, that speaks much more of the gross inequity we have in wealth distribution and much less of the education of our teachers.  

As for the article itself...I do think it is a bit of indoctrination.  Here's why.... Utilizing the singing technique in teaching is typically to teach things that are unchangeable, solid, foundation materials.  We typically used songs to teach thing such as the elements, the states and capitals, the math facts.  This technique typically ends in elementary school, but every once in a while resurfaces when the kids just cannot seem to learn to memorize something (the countries in Africa, although that one got all murky since they DO keep changing).

Using a song to sing the praises of common core, does seem to cross that line.  It is teaching these kids that this is the way, the only way, that will be acceptable in America.  It is distasteful to me.

Although IMO the article was definately overzealous in its Nazi comparisons.  These types of comparisons always take the minds to the most horrific parts of the Nazi party's solutions to its "problems."  It is wrong to make such comparisons to anyone that is not killing millions of people with its practices.




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