Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

Homeschooling Moms Homeschooling Moms

Indoctrinization OR Overzealousness

Posted by   + Show Post
Ran into this article and found it to be quite interesting. I didn't post the whole article as it was extremely long. So I just posted the first paragraph.



Some friends came to us this week, troubled, to ask our advice. It seems their youngest son came home from school on Monday and asked – begged – to be homeschooled.
His request has been a recurrent theme during the past few months, but it took on a particular urgency on Monday when his biology teacher required all the students to sing a song praising Common Core.


Read more at http://mobile.wnd.com/2014/02/hands-off-our-children-big-brother/#UQVXdLLIhiMQaxFH.99


What do You think?

  

undefined

by on Feb. 9, 2014 at 4:35 PM
Replies (31-37):
TidewaterClan
by on Feb. 10, 2014 at 7:02 PM
I worked full time (and overtime) up until four years ago. The teachers always told me I was one of the few people who read, practiced math, worked on writing skills etc. I was amazed at how many parents text during assemblies, class parties (I'd use my lunch to go), etc. The nurse at the doctor's office said there are tons of parents who are on Facebook or texting the whole time they should be talking to the doctor. The children from school & seven years of Girl Scouts who have issues are the ones with parents who don't pay attention to them.

I'm not for government in the schools, btw. I agree about class size too. There's just a huge increase in the lack of respect for others & manners going on. My SIL is a middle school teacher & last year she reported two girls blatantly cheating on a test. She gave them both Fs & reported them to the principal. Both sets of parents were livid about the grades & demanded she give the girls the test again. To me that's just sad.

Not grouching at you Roma! I just think it's a combination of these things.


Quoting romacox:

I have worked in the classroom as a teachers aid, and as a tutor.  I have dealt with and witnessed the behavior problems.  But when both parents are forced to work two and three jobs, with little time to interact with the children, that is the consequences. It is also the consequences of an overloaded class size.   We now have a very unhealthy environment for children....for  families. The dog and cat are the only ones enjoying the home.

  Raising children in institutions (daycare centers & overloaded classrooms)  rather than in families was tried in history, and it was a disaster.  Hitler tried it.  It created serious emotional and mental problems.  So again it is a problem that is created by government who extracts more and more money from families to support the bureaucracy forcing families to take on two and three jobs just to get by.  As a result, parents often do not understand their own children, and that they are not little adults.So parents   have little empathy for the teacher,. 

In conclusion:  problems with an over regulated classroom, and poor family environments are not separate issues.  Even though they appear to be separate issues, they have the same cause.


Quoting TidewaterClan: Hey Roma! Honestly, I've never witnessed how awful students can be until the past few years. That 2nd grade class was the worst. One fellow was always drawing mustaches on himself (in between throwing things at the other children of course), the little boy with the protective mother would punch other boys, so much talking, etc. The teacher didn't have a chance. They easily wasted 65% of her day. The quiet children like mine got lost in the shuffle. The other volunteers and I tried to help them along as best we could. This is in a "great" school district too.




It won't matter how much or little government we have in schools until we change society's attitude.




Quoting romacox:

The biggest disrespect to U.S. teachers is tying their hands with government bureaucracy, and then blaming them for the problems.  When I gave my recent workshop at the Florida Reading Association Conference, there were several teachers in the audience. They were saying that , because of all the paperwork and testing, they did not have the time to give individual attention. 

However, chasing3 brought up a very good point about being concerned that if things continue in the directions they are, Home Educators may become heavily regulated.  That would tie their hands producing the same results teachers now experience.



romacox
by Silver Member on Feb. 10, 2014 at 7:50 PM
1 mom liked this

Yes it is a combination of things.  But people keep pointing their  fingers  at each other, instead of working together to undo the damage of an unhealthy environment.. ...an unhealthy environment for children, families and teachers.

Home educated children are better behaved than what you see in the classroom, but those parents raise their kids in a home environment instead of institutions. Home educated children are better educated too, and that is true even when the parent has no degrees.  That should tell us something.   

Quoting TidewaterClan: I worked full time (and overtime) up until four years ago. The teachers always told me I was one of the few people who read, practiced math, worked on writing skills etc. I was amazed at how many parents text during assemblies, class parties (I'd use my lunch to go), etc. The nurse at the doctor's office said there are tons of parents who are on Facebook or texting the whole time they should be talking to the doctor. The children from school & seven years of Girl Scouts who have issues are the ones with parents who don't pay attention to them.

I'm not for government in the schools, btw. I agree about class size too. There's just a huge increase in the lack of respect for others & manners going on. My SIL is a middle school teacher & last year she reported two girls blatantly cheating on a test. She gave them both Fs & reported them to the principal. Both sets of parents were livid about the grades & demanded she give the girls the test again. To me that's just sad.

Not grouching at you Roma! I just think it's a combination of these things.


Quoting romacox:

I have worked in the classroom as a teachers aid, and as a tutor.  I have dealt with and witnessed the behavior problems.  But when both parents are forced to work two and three jobs, with little time to interact with the children, that is the consequences. It is also the consequences of an overloaded class size.   We now have a very unhealthy environment for children....for  families. The dog and cat are the only ones enjoying the home.

  Raising children in institutions (daycare centers & overloaded classrooms)  rather than in families was tried in history, and it was a disaster.  Hitler tried it.  It created serious emotional and mental problems.  So again it is a problem that is created by government who extracts more and more money from families to support the bureaucracy forcing families to take on two and three jobs just to get by.  As a result, parents often do not understand their own children, and that they are not little adults.So parents   have little empathy for the teacher,. 

In conclusion:  problems with an over regulated classroom, and poor family environments are not separate issues.  Even though they appear to be separate issues, they have the same cause.


Quoting TidewaterClan: Hey Roma! Honestly, I've never witnessed how awful students can be until the past few years. That 2nd grade class was the worst. One fellow was always drawing mustaches on himself (in between throwing things at the other children of course), the little boy with the protective mother would punch other boys, so much talking, etc. The teacher didn't have a chance. They easily wasted 65% of her day. The quiet children like mine got lost in the shuffle. The other volunteers and I tried to help them along as best we could. This is in a "great" school district too.




It won't matter how much or little government we have in schools until we change society's attitude.




Quoting romacox:

The biggest disrespect to U.S. teachers is tying their hands with government bureaucracy, and then blaming them for the problems.  When I gave my recent workshop at the Florida Reading Association Conference, there were several teachers in the audience. They were saying that , because of all the paperwork and testing, they did not have the time to give individual attention. 

However, chasing3 brought up a very good point about being concerned that if things continue in the directions they are, Home Educators may become heavily regulated.  That would tie their hands producing the same results teachers now experience.




TidewaterClan
by on Feb. 10, 2014 at 8:59 PM
This is so true! We went a few weeks ago to a class on the Civil War at the Cincinnati Museum. The instructor was amazing! She kept everyone's attention, including the parents like me in the back. I've never seen such well mannered students and I've been on field trips as a chaperone many times when I was working. Several of the older students knew so many things. They were a real tribute to their parents.

I agree with you about pointing fingers. Maybe having more expected parental involvement would trigger those who need it to do so.


Quoting romacox:

Yes it is a combination of things.  But people keep pointing their  fingers  at each other, instead of working together to undo the damage of an unhealthy environment.. ...an unhealthy environment for children, families and teachers.

Home educated children are better behaved than what you see in the classroom, but those parents raise their kids in a home environment instead of institutions. Home educated children are better educated too, and that is true even when the parent has no degrees.  That should tell us something.   

Quoting TidewaterClan: I worked full time (and overtime) up until four years ago. The teachers always told me I was one of the few people who read, practiced math, worked on writing skills etc. I was amazed at how many parents text during assemblies, class parties (I'd use my lunch to go), etc. The nurse at the doctor's office said there are tons of parents who are on Facebook or texting the whole time they should be talking to the doctor. The children from school & seven years of Girl Scouts who have issues are the ones with parents who don't pay attention to them.



I'm not for government in the schools, btw. I agree about class size too. There's just a huge increase in the lack of respect for others & manners going on. My SIL is a middle school teacher & last year she reported two girls blatantly cheating on a test. She gave them both Fs & reported them to the principal. Both sets of parents were livid about the grades & demanded she give the girls the test again. To me that's just sad.



Not grouching at you Roma! I just think it's a combination of these things.




Quoting romacox:

I have worked in the classroom as a teachers aid, and as a tutor.  I have dealt with and witnessed the behavior problems.  But when both parents are forced to work two and three jobs, with little time to interact with the children, that is the consequences. It is also the consequences of an overloaded class size.   We now have a very unhealthy environment for children....for  families. The dog and cat are the only ones enjoying the home.

  Raising children in institutions (daycare centers & overloaded classrooms)  rather than in families was tried in history, and it was a disaster.  Hitler tried it.  It created serious emotional and mental problems.  So again it is a problem that is created by government who extracts more and more money from families to support the bureaucracy forcing families to take on two and three jobs just to get by.  As a result, parents often do not understand their own children, and that they are not little adults.So parents   have little empathy for the teacher,. 

In conclusion:  problems with an over regulated classroom, and poor family environments are not separate issues.  Even though they appear to be separate issues, they have the same cause.


Quoting TidewaterClan: Hey Roma! Honestly, I've never witnessed how awful students can be until the past few years. That 2nd grade class was the worst. One fellow was always drawing mustaches on himself (in between throwing things at the other children of course), the little boy with the protective mother would punch other boys, so much talking, etc. The teacher didn't have a chance. They easily wasted 65% of her day. The quiet children like mine got lost in the shuffle. The other volunteers and I tried to help them along as best we could. This is in a "great" school district too.






It won't matter how much or little government we have in schools until we change society's attitude.






Quoting romacox:

The biggest disrespect to U.S. teachers is tying their hands with government bureaucracy, and then blaming them for the problems.  When I gave my recent workshop at the Florida Reading Association Conference, there were several teachers in the audience. They were saying that , because of all the paperwork and testing, they did not have the time to give individual attention. 

However, chasing3 brought up a very good point about being concerned that if things continue in the directions they are, Home Educators may become heavily regulated.  That would tie their hands producing the same results teachers now experience.




romacox
by Silver Member on Feb. 11, 2014 at 4:23 AM
1 mom liked this

Some of the children I tutor at school are hungry most of the day, and are under so much stress that it effects their learning.  I can tutor that same child at home, and they are more relaxed...They learn better at home. 

Why? n many homes the parents are in a hurry to get to work, so they feed the child a highly processed carbohydrate food.  They get to school, and are again fed a highly processed lunch.  For some of the children it is not even enough food (one size does not fit all).  The sensitive teachers, recognizing that the kids are hungry,  feed them a snack which is again a carbohydrate processed food.

The children are allowed only a 30 minute recess per day.  For active children, that is torture in and of itself.  On top of that, hugs are no longer permitted. 

John Taylor Gatto even talks about how children behave better away from school than at school. Just the opposite use to be true.  The schools, and many of the daycare centers are run like institutions, and the kids are the real victims.  But the environment today is unhealthy for teachers and parents too. 

P.S. Recent research in cognitive science, reveals that chronic stressful environments effect one's ability to learn, and can cause learning disabilities.  The research goes on to say that it also effects teachers..  The over emphasis on testing (and things mentioned above)  is causing way too much stress for teachers and students. 

________________________________________________

Quoting TidewaterClan: This is so true! We went a few weeks ago to a class on the Civil War at the Cincinnati Museum. The instructor was amazing! She kept everyone's attention, including the parents like me in the back. I've never seen such well mannered students and I've been on field trips as a chaperone many times when I was working. Several of the older students knew so many things. They were a real tribute to their parents.


I agree with you about pointing fingers. Maybe having more expected parental involvement would trigger those who need it to do so.


Quoting romacox:

Yes it is a combination of things.  But people keep pointing their  fingers  at each other, instead of working together to undo the damage of an unhealthy environment.. ...an unhealthy environment for children, families and teachers.

Home educated children are better behaved than what you see in the classroom, but those parents raise their kids in a home environment instead of institutions. Home educated children are better educated too, and that is true even when the parent has no degrees.  That should tell us something.   

Quoting TidewaterClan: I worked full time (and overtime) up until four years ago. The teachers always told me I was one of the few people who read, practiced math, worked on writing skills etc. I was amazed at how many parents text during assemblies, class parties (I'd use my lunch to go), etc. The nurse at the doctor's office said there are tons of parents who are on Facebook or texting the whole time they should be talking to the doctor. The children from school & seven years of Girl Scouts who have issues are the ones with parents who don't pay attention to them.



I'm not for government in the schools, btw. I agree about class size too. There's just a huge increase in the lack of respect for others & manners going on. My SIL is a middle school teacher & last year she reported two girls blatantly cheating on a test. She gave them both Fs & reported them to the principal. Both sets of parents were livid about the grades & demanded she give the girls the test again. To me that's just sad.



Not grouching at you Roma! I just think it's a combination of these things.




Quoting romacox:

I have worked in the classroom as a teachers aid, and as a tutor.  I have dealt with and witnessed the behavior problems.  But when both parents are forced to work two and three jobs, with little time to interact with the children, that is the consequences. It is also the consequences of an overloaded class size.   We now have a very unhealthy environment for children....for  families. The dog and cat are the only ones enjoying the home.

  Raising children in institutions (daycare centers & overloaded classrooms)  rather than in families was tried in history, and it was a disaster.  Hitler tried it.  It created serious emotional and mental problems.  So again it is a problem that is created by government who extracts more and more money from families to support the bureaucracy forcing families to take on two and three jobs just to get by.  As a result, parents often do not understand their own children, and that they are not little adults.So parents   have little empathy for the teacher,. 

In conclusion:  problems with an over regulated classroom, and poor family environments are not separate issues.  Even though they appear to be separate issues, they have the same cause.


Quoting TidewaterClan: Hey Roma! Honestly, I've never witnessed how awful students can be until the past few years. That 2nd grade class was the worst. One fellow was always drawing mustaches on himself (in between throwing things at the other children of course), the little boy with the protective mother would punch other boys, so much talking, etc. The teacher didn't have a chance. They easily wasted 65% of her day. The quiet children like mine got lost in the shuffle. The other volunteers and I tried to help them along as best we could. This is in a "great" school district too.






It won't matter how much or little government we have in schools until we change society's attitude.






Quoting romacox:

The biggest disrespect to U.S. teachers is tying their hands with government bureaucracy, and then blaming them for the problems.  When I gave my recent workshop at the Florida Reading Association Conference, there were several teachers in the audience. They were saying that , because of all the paperwork and testing, they did not have the time to give individual attention. 

However, chasing3 brought up a very good point about being concerned that if things continue in the directions they are, Home Educators may become heavily regulated.  That would tie their hands producing the same results teachers now experience.





TidewaterClan
by on Feb. 11, 2014 at 9:11 AM

I now see what you're saying about the emphasis on these tests being the crux of the matter.

Another nutritional issue is the children at the end of the lunch line get less time to eat than the class that arrived first.  Last year's little 2nd graders took a few months to get the hang of typing in their numerical code to pay; talk about assimilation!  Some of the children in the back only had five minutes to eat if they were lucky.  I volunteered at the salad bar, and saw it firsthand.  I talked to the staff in charge of lunch about it, as well as the principal.  That bumped their minutes up (when I was there at least), but I started packing little dd's lunch so she could just walk in and eat. 

The boy who was suspended the most often in older dd's class last year was always full of energy.  What did the principal do when this student was unruly?  Took away his recess of course.  Same thing with my girls and others who didn't finish their in-class work.  Just send it home!  Let them play, run, yell, scream, laugh, and get all of that pent up energy out of their systems!

Little dd's 2nd grade teacher would often take advantage of the beautiful small woods that ran alongside school.  It's maintained by the park district and has hills, a little creek, a wooden bridge, and is perfect for a little hike.  The children would write poems, observations, fiction and non-fiction stories, and just have a good time.  She and the other teachers were told this year that they are not allowed to take hikes anymore, because the school board wants their focus to be on the standardized testing.  If they only took a second to see what she was doing they would have realized she was covering language arts in a fun and creative way AND the children were retaining it!

Sorry for talking your leg off, but you've helped me realize how many of my reasons for homeschooling are because of the standardized testing.  We've already covered more social studies and science than the girls did last year.  BOTH subjects use all of the tools the school board wants drilled in for the tests, so it's just a shame because youth are missing so much by not learning more about them.  What better way to answer the "why am I learning . . . ?" questions than science lab? 


Quoting romacox:

Some of the children I tutor at school are hungry most of the day, and are under so much stress that it effects their learning.  I can tutor that same child at home, and they are more relaxed...They learn better at home. 

Why? n many homes the parents are in a hurry to get to work, so they feed the child a highly processed carbohydrate food.  They get to school, and are again fed a highly processed lunch.  For some of the children it is not even enough food (one size does not fit all).  The sensitive teachers, recognizing that the kids are hungry,  feed them a snack which is again a carbohydrate processed food.

The children are allowed only a 30 minute recess per day.  For active children, that is torture in and of itself.  On top of that, hugs are no longer permitted. 

John Taylor Gatto even talks about how children behave better away from school than at school. Just the opposite use to be true.  The schools, and many of the daycare centers are run like institutions, and the kids are the real victims.  But the environment today is unhealthy for teachers and parents too. 

P.S. Recent research in cognitive science, reveals that chronic stressful environments effect one's ability to learn, and can cause learning disabilities.  The research goes on to say that it also effects teachers..  The over emphasis on testing (and things mentioned above)  is causing way too much stress for teachers and students. 


romacox
by Silver Member on Feb. 11, 2014 at 5:12 PM
1 mom liked this

You did not talk my leg off at all.  I think people need to hear the  things you spoke of...  how teachers try to do what is best for the children, but their hands are tied. 

We could learn a lot from Finish schools.  One of the things they do is that no politician or business owner dictates curriculum or what goes on in the classroom.  The only people allowed to administer over teachers are those who have taught in the classroom.  Also the teachers are empowered to do what ever it takes to reach each individual child. Teachers often write their own lessons, and many of those lessons take place outside.   It is not this collectivism were individuals are sacrificed for the grater good of the whole. 

Quoting TidewaterClan:

I now see what you're saying about the emphasis on these tests being the crux of the matter.

Another nutritional issue is the children at the end of the lunch line get less time to eat than the class that arrived first.  Last year's little 2nd graders took a few months to get the hang of typing in their numerical code to pay; talk about assimilation!  Some of the children in the back only had five minutes to eat if they were lucky.  I volunteered at the salad bar, and saw it firsthand.  I talked to the staff in charge of lunch about it, as well as the principal.  That bumped their minutes up (when I was there at least), but I started packing little dd's lunch so she could just walk in and eat. 

The boy who was suspended the most often in older dd's class last year was always full of energy.  What did the principal do when this student was unruly?  Took away his recess of course.  Same thing with my girls and others who didn't finish their in-class work.  Just send it home!  Let them play, run, yell, scream, laugh, and get all of that pent up energy out of their systems!

Little dd's 2nd grade teacher would often take advantage of the beautiful small woods that ran alongside school.  It's maintained by the park district and has hills, a little creek, a wooden bridge, and is perfect for a little hike.  The children would write poems, observations, fiction and non-fiction stories, and just have a good time.  She and the other teachers were told this year that they are not allowed to take hikes anymore, because the school board wants their focus to be on the standardized testing.  If they only took a second to see what she was doing they would have realized she was covering language arts in a fun and creative way AND the children were retaining it!

Sorry for talking your leg off, but you've helped me realize how many of my reasons for homeschooling are because of the standardized testing.  We've already covered more social studies and science than the girls did last year.  BOTH subjects use all of the tools the school board wants drilled in for the tests, so it's just a shame because youth are missing so much by not learning more about them.  What better way to answer the "why am I learning . . . ?" questions than science lab? 


Quoting romacox:

Some of the children I tutor at school are hungry most of the day, and are under so much stress that it effects their learning.  I can tutor that same child at home, and they are more relaxed...They learn better at home. 

Why? n many homes the parents are in a hurry to get to work, so they feed the child a highly processed carbohydrate food.  They get to school, and are again fed a highly processed lunch.  For some of the children it is not even enough food (one size does not fit all).  The sensitive teachers, recognizing that the kids are hungry,  feed them a snack which is again a carbohydrate processed food.

The children are allowed only a 30 minute recess per day.  For active children, that is torture in and of itself.  On top of that, hugs are no longer permitted. 

John Taylor Gatto even talks about how children behave better away from school than at school. Just the opposite use to be true.  The schools, and many of the daycare centers are run like institutions, and the kids are the real victims.  But the environment today is unhealthy for teachers and parents too. 

P.S. Recent research in cognitive science, reveals that chronic stressful environments effect one's ability to learn, and can cause learning disabilities.  The research goes on to say that it also effects teachers..  The over emphasis on testing (and things mentioned above)  is causing way too much stress for teachers and students. 



Jilectan
by Member on Feb. 12, 2014 at 12:25 PM

I didn't read the article, but having kids sing a song praising common core makes me really uneasy. Kind of like how they were having some kids sing a song praising Obama. It feels wrong. A president shouldn't have students singing songs praising them (seriously? that sounded an awful lot like what dictators do, kwim? I don't know that he had anything to do with it, but it seriously creeped me out.) and IMO, it's the same with something like common core.

It sounds like indoctrination, to me. And it's part of why my kids have never been to public school.

Add your quick reply below:
You must be a member to reply to this post.
Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)