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Homeschooling is not a basic right? ~sfag Update

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Here's an update

Today, a Supervisor with the Department of Homeland Security called a member of our legal team to inform us that the Romeike family has been granted "indefinite deferred status". This means that the Romeikes can stay in the United States permanently (unless they are convicted of a crime, etc.)

Supreme Court rejects asylum bid for German home-schooling family



By Sarah Pulliam Bailey | Religion News Service, Published: March 3

The Supreme Court on Monday (March 3) declined to hear an appeal from a family seeking asylum in the United States because home schooling is not allowed in their native Germany.

The case involves Uwe and Hannelore Romeike, Christians who believe German schools would have a bad influence on their six children. The family’s case became a rallying point for many American Christians.



As is their custom, the justices on the high court declined to give a reason for not hearing the case.

Michael Farris, chairman of the Home School Legal Defense Association that represents the family, said the group would pursue legislation in Congress to allow the family to stay. But the Romeikes will likely face deportation.

“The court’s decision is not a decision on the merits of the case — however, it was the last judicial hope for the family,” Farris said in a statement. “Even now, we have been working with supportive members of Congress to introduce legislation that could help the Romeikes and others who flee persecution.”

HSLDA helped the Romeikes leave Germany in 2008 after they were threatened with jail time and losing custody of their children. The Romeikes are evangelical Christians, and say they should be allowed to keep their children home to teach them Christian values.

An immigration judge in Tennessee granted the Romeikes’ bid in 2010, but the Board of Immigration Appeals overturned the ruling in 2012, arguing that religious home-schoolers don’t face any special threats.

The family lost their appeal in federal court in May 2013. The U.S. grants safe haven to people who have a well-founded fear of persecution, but not necessarily to those under governments with laws that differ from those in the U.S., Judge Jeffrey Sutton wrote in the court’s decision.

“The German authorities have not singled out the Romeikes in particular or homeschoolers in general for persecution,” Sutton wrote.

In August 2013, the White House declined to comment on the case in response to an online petition.




http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/supreme-court-rejects-asylum-bid-for-german-home-schooling-family/2014/03/03/06a987e8-a31b-11e3-b865-38b254d92063_story.html




My question is...why this family? Why are people fighting so hard to let illegal immigrants stay in the country but this family, who appears to have done things the right way, are being forced out? I have read a few articles on this family and I have yet to understand why the government is working so hard to make them leave.

by on Mar. 4, 2014 at 11:16 AM
Replies (31-40):
bluerooffarm
by Gold Member on Mar. 5, 2014 at 11:35 AM
1 mom liked this

I cannot find the link now, but they also had distant family in another EU country that was willing to help them financially to move.  They instead sold an expensive piano for much of the money and now have financial help here.  I still think moving from one EU country to another would have been smarter and more cost effective than moving across an ocean.

Quoting paganbaby:

I heard they had people out here that helped them financially. I'm sure it must be very expensive to move to another country.

Quoting bluerooffarm:

Here's my question.... why here?  Why America?  According to the Schengen Agreement a family can move around Europe without really needing Visas or anything (correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe 26 countries signed that agreement in the 90's).  There are countries in the EU that are very homeschooling friendly (Belgium, Austria and Poland are all bordering countries with lots of German co-ops etc to choose from).  They just seemed to want international coverage for this.

Quoting JKronrod:

 Yes, but to apply for residency you normally have to apply outside the U.S. -- usually in your home country. They were already under scrutiny by the German government.  Again, if they had waited, they were potentially taking a risk. 

Quoting mem82:

;) I was the one who talked about precedent. LOL I had a lot to say on the subject. The way I understood it, they came here and then applied so the children were already out of German hands.

Quoting JKronrod:

I think the situation was a bit more complicated.  For one thing, they might not have been allowed to leave with the children if they had been forced by the German government to "give in" on the homeschooling issue.  IOW, they were taking a risk that the government would claim additional control over the children if they waited to apply.   

Now, I happen to agree with the poster who pointed out that having a precedent that all home schoolers could get asylum is probably not a good thing (and I speak as a home schooling parent), which is undoubtedly why the SC declined to take the case.  Their decision allows an exception to be made for this family (having "deferred" status) while not providing a broad 'sure thing' for any home schoolers. 

Quoting mem82:

That's what so sad about this case. They had plenty of sponsors, the dad has work, they are good people. A green card or visa would not have been hard to get.

Quoting TidewaterClan:

Good thoughts Mem.  That would have been the smarter route for them all along.  It's too bad they didn't do that in the first place.

Quoting mem82:

Well, as of yesterday, all else did fail and I do feel that they will go for a visa or green card especially with the new baby.

Quoting Precious333: Good point. I wonder though if they wentbthat route after all else had failed?
Quoting mem82:

If this family had chosen to go the normal route to get citizenship or a green card they would have been able to do this. They CHOOSE to go for asylum. Asylum is supposed to be for people that are in actual mortal danger or at least risk of great bodily harm. Because the lawyers they got, and they people they hang out with wanted to have an agenda not based on the specific needs of this family, they are now facing deportation.




paganbaby
by Silver Member on Mar. 5, 2014 at 11:40 AM
1 mom liked this

Well, in light of that I can't help but feel they wanted to make a statement.

Quoting bluerooffarm:

I cannot find the link now, but they also had distant family in another EU country that was willing to help them financially to move.  They instead sold an expensive piano for much of the money and now have financial help here.  I still think moving from one EU country to another would have been smarter and more cost effective than moving across an ocean.

Quoting paganbaby:

I heard they had people out here that helped them financially. I'm sure it must be very expensive to move to another country.

Quoting bluerooffarm:

Here's my question.... why here?  Why America?  According to the Schengen Agreement a family can move around Europe without really needing Visas or anything (correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe 26 countries signed that agreement in the 90's).  There are countries in the EU that are very homeschooling friendly (Belgium, Austria and Poland are all bordering countries with lots of German co-ops etc to choose from).  They just seemed to want international coverage for this.

Quoting JKronrod:

 Yes, but to apply for residency you normally have to apply outside the U.S. -- usually in your home country. They were already under scrutiny by the German government.  Again, if they had waited, they were potentially taking a risk. 

Quoting mem82:

;) I was the one who talked about precedent. LOL I had a lot to say on the subject. The way I understood it, they came here and then applied so the children were already out of German hands.

Quoting JKronrod:

I think the situation was a bit more complicated.  For one thing, they might not have been allowed to leave with the children if they had been forced by the German government to "give in" on the homeschooling issue.  IOW, they were taking a risk that the government would claim additional control over the children if they waited to apply.   

Now, I happen to agree with the poster who pointed out that having a precedent that all home schoolers could get asylum is probably not a good thing (and I speak as a home schooling parent), which is undoubtedly why the SC declined to take the case.  Their decision allows an exception to be made for this family (having "deferred" status) while not providing a broad 'sure thing' for any home schoolers. 

Quoting mem82:

That's what so sad about this case. They had plenty of sponsors, the dad has work, they are good people. A green card or visa would not have been hard to get.

Quoting TidewaterClan:

Good thoughts Mem.  That would have been the smarter route for them all along.  It's too bad they didn't do that in the first place.

Quoting mem82:

Well, as of yesterday, all else did fail and I do feel that they will go for a visa or green card especially with the new baby.

Quoting Precious333: Good point. I wonder though if they wentbthat route after all else had failed?
Quoting mem82:

If this family had chosen to go the normal route to get citizenship or a green card they would have been able to do this. They CHOOSE to go for asylum. Asylum is supposed to be for people that are in actual mortal danger or at least risk of great bodily harm. Because the lawyers they got, and they people they hang out with wanted to have an agenda not based on the specific needs of this family, they are now facing deportation.






I will not have a temper tantrum nor stomp across the floor.


I will not pout, scream or shout or kick against the door.

I will not throw my food around nor pick upon another.

I’ll always try to be real good because I am the mother.

I am the mother.

I am the mother.














bluerooffarm
by Gold Member on Mar. 5, 2014 at 11:43 AM
2 moms liked this

The more I read about them in the beginning, the more that I felt that way.  And I am so VEY pro-homeschooling and anti-regulation.  I just feel there's a bit too much "statement" in this case.

Quoting paganbaby:

Well, in light of that I can't help but feel they wanted to make a statement.

Quoting bluerooffarm:

I cannot find the link now, but they also had distant family in another EU country that was willing to help them financially to move.  They instead sold an expensive piano for much of the money and now have financial help here.  I still think moving from one EU country to another would have been smarter and more cost effective than moving across an ocean.

Quoting paganbaby:

I heard they had people out here that helped them financially. I'm sure it must be very expensive to move to another country.

Quoting bluerooffarm:

Here's my question.... why here?  Why America?  According to the Schengen Agreement a family can move around Europe without really needing Visas or anything (correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe 26 countries signed that agreement in the 90's).  There are countries in the EU that are very homeschooling friendly (Belgium, Austria and Poland are all bordering countries with lots of German co-ops etc to choose from).  They just seemed to want international coverage for this.

Quoting JKronrod:

 Yes, but to apply for residency you normally have to apply outside the U.S. -- usually in your home country. They were already under scrutiny by the German government.  Again, if they had waited, they were potentially taking a risk. 

Quoting mem82:

;) I was the one who talked about precedent. LOL I had a lot to say on the subject. The way I understood it, they came here and then applied so the children were already out of German hands.

Quoting JKronrod:

I think the situation was a bit more complicated.  For one thing, they might not have been allowed to leave with the children if they had been forced by the German government to "give in" on the homeschooling issue.  IOW, they were taking a risk that the government would claim additional control over the children if they waited to apply.   

Now, I happen to agree with the poster who pointed out that having a precedent that all home schoolers could get asylum is probably not a good thing (and I speak as a home schooling parent), which is undoubtedly why the SC declined to take the case.  Their decision allows an exception to be made for this family (having "deferred" status) while not providing a broad 'sure thing' for any home schoolers. 

Quoting mem82:

That's what so sad about this case. They had plenty of sponsors, the dad has work, they are good people. A green card or visa would not have been hard to get.

Quoting TidewaterClan:

Good thoughts Mem.  That would have been the smarter route for them all along.  It's too bad they didn't do that in the first place.

Quoting mem82:

Well, as of yesterday, all else did fail and I do feel that they will go for a visa or green card especially with the new baby.

Quoting Precious333: Good point. I wonder though if they wentbthat route after all else had failed?
Quoting mem82:

If this family had chosen to go the normal route to get citizenship or a green card they would have been able to do this. They CHOOSE to go for asylum. Asylum is supposed to be for people that are in actual mortal danger or at least risk of great bodily harm. Because the lawyers they got, and they people they hang out with wanted to have an agenda not based on the specific needs of this family, they are now facing deportation.




mem82
by Platinum Member on Mar. 5, 2014 at 11:52 AM
1 mom liked this

Why America? Why because we are the most awesome of the awesome of course. Maybe they were all like, "Go big or go home!" <--Get it, go big or go HOME haha I'm so funny. I just crack myself up.

Quoting bluerooffarm:

Here's my question.... why here?  Why America?  According to the Schengen Agreement a family can move around Europe without really needing Visas or anything (correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe 26 countries signed that agreement in the 90's).  There are countries in the EU that are very homeschooling friendly (Belgium, Austria and Poland are all bordering countries with lots of German co-ops etc to choose from).  They just seemed to want international coverage for this.

Quoting JKronrod:

 Yes, but to apply for residency you normally have to apply outside the U.S. -- usually in your home country. They were already under scrutiny by the German government.  Again, if they had waited, they were potentially taking a risk. 

Quoting mem82:

;) I was the one who talked about precedent. LOL I had a lot to say on the subject. The way I understood it, they came here and then applied so the children were already out of German hands.

Quoting JKronrod:

I think the situation was a bit more complicated.  For one thing, they might not have been allowed to leave with the children if they had been forced by the German government to "give in" on the homeschooling issue.  IOW, they were taking a risk that the government would claim additional control over the children if they waited to apply.   

Now, I happen to agree with the poster who pointed out that having a precedent that all home schoolers could get asylum is probably not a good thing (and I speak as a home schooling parent), which is undoubtedly why the SC declined to take the case.  Their decision allows an exception to be made for this family (having "deferred" status) while not providing a broad 'sure thing' for any home schoolers. 

Quoting mem82:

That's what so sad about this case. They had plenty of sponsors, the dad has work, they are good people. A green card or visa would not have been hard to get.

Quoting TidewaterClan:

Good thoughts Mem.  That would have been the smarter route for them all along.  It's too bad they didn't do that in the first place.

Quoting mem82:

Well, as of yesterday, all else did fail and I do feel that they will go for a visa or green card especially with the new baby.

Quoting Precious333: Good point. I wonder though if they wentbthat route after all else had failed?
Quoting mem82:

If this family had chosen to go the normal route to get citizenship or a green card they would have been able to do this. They CHOOSE to go for asylum. Asylum is supposed to be for people that are in actual mortal danger or at least risk of great bodily harm. Because the lawyers they got, and they people they hang out with wanted to have an agenda not based on the specific needs of this family, they are now facing deportation.




bluerooffarm
by Gold Member on Mar. 5, 2014 at 12:36 PM

That made me LMAO!  

Quoting mem82:

Why America? Why because we are the most awesome of the awesome of course. Maybe they were all like, "Go big or go home!" <--Get it, go big or go HOME haha I'm so funny. I just crack myself up.

Quoting bluerooffarm:

Here's my question.... why here?  Why America?  According to the Schengen Agreement a family can move around Europe without really needing Visas or anything (correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe 26 countries signed that agreement in the 90's).  There are countries in the EU that are very homeschooling friendly (Belgium, Austria and Poland are all bordering countries with lots of German co-ops etc to choose from).  They just seemed to want international coverage for this.

Quoting JKronrod:

 Yes, but to apply for residency you normally have to apply outside the U.S. -- usually in your home country. They were already under scrutiny by the German government.  Again, if they had waited, they were potentially taking a risk. 

Quoting mem82:

;) I was the one who talked about precedent. LOL I had a lot to say on the subject. The way I understood it, they came here and then applied so the children were already out of German hands.

Quoting JKronrod:

I think the situation was a bit more complicated.  For one thing, they might not have been allowed to leave with the children if they had been forced by the German government to "give in" on the homeschooling issue.  IOW, they were taking a risk that the government would claim additional control over the children if they waited to apply.   

Now, I happen to agree with the poster who pointed out that having a precedent that all home schoolers could get asylum is probably not a good thing (and I speak as a home schooling parent), which is undoubtedly why the SC declined to take the case.  Their decision allows an exception to be made for this family (having "deferred" status) while not providing a broad 'sure thing' for any home schoolers. 

Quoting mem82:

That's what so sad about this case. They had plenty of sponsors, the dad has work, they are good people. A green card or visa would not have been hard to get.

Quoting TidewaterClan:

Good thoughts Mem.  That would have been the smarter route for them all along.  It's too bad they didn't do that in the first place.

Quoting mem82:

Well, as of yesterday, all else did fail and I do feel that they will go for a visa or green card especially with the new baby.

Quoting Precious333: Good point. I wonder though if they wentbthat route after all else had failed?
Quoting mem82:

If this family had chosen to go the normal route to get citizenship or a green card they would have been able to do this. They CHOOSE to go for asylum. Asylum is supposed to be for people that are in actual mortal danger or at least risk of great bodily harm. Because the lawyers they got, and they people they hang out with wanted to have an agenda not based on the specific needs of this family, they are now facing deportation.




KickButtMama
by Shannon on Mar. 5, 2014 at 1:52 PM

I agree w/ mem. There are LEGAL  routes this family could have taken. Plus Germany has great schools - I've been in them. So I guess I agree that homeschooling is not a basic right. In a perfect world I like the idea of group education, I just think American schools (the majority) stink.

JKronrod
by Bronze Member on Mar. 5, 2014 at 6:19 PM

 If they remain citizens of Germany, I suspect (guessing here) that they would be more likely to face return to Germany.  Europe seems a lot less friendly to home schooling than the U.S.  And I think that there is also a certain amount of suspicion about their particular brand of Christianity. 

Quoting bluerooffarm:

Here's my question.... why here?  Why America?  According to the Schengen Agreement a family can move around Europe without really needing Visas or anything (correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe 26 countries signed that agreement in the 90's).  There are countries in the EU that are very homeschooling friendly (Belgium, Austria and Poland are all bordering countries with lots of German co-ops etc to choose from).  They just seemed to want international coverage for this.

Quoting JKronrod:

 Yes, but to apply for residency you normally have to apply outside the U.S. -- usually in your home country. They were already under scrutiny by the German government.  Again, if they had waited, they were potentially taking a risk. 

Quoting mem82:

;) I was the one who talked about precedent. LOL I had a lot to say on the subject. The way I understood it, they came here and then applied so the children were already out of German hands.

Quoting JKronrod:

I think the situation was a bit more complicated.  For one thing, they might not have been allowed to leave with the children if they had been forced by the German government to "give in" on the homeschooling issue.  IOW, they were taking a risk that the government would claim additional control over the children if they waited to apply.   

Now, I happen to agree with the poster who pointed out that having a precedent that all home schoolers could get asylum is probably not a good thing (and I speak as a home schooling parent), which is undoubtedly why the SC declined to take the case.  Their decision allows an exception to be made for this family (having "deferred" status) while not providing a broad 'sure thing' for any home schoolers. 

Quoting mem82:

That's what so sad about this case. They had plenty of sponsors, the dad has work, they are good people. A green card or visa would not have been hard to get.

Quoting TidewaterClan:

Good thoughts Mem.  That would have been the smarter route for them all along.  It's too bad they didn't do that in the first place.

Quoting mem82:

Well, as of yesterday, all else did fail and I do feel that they will go for a visa or green card especially with the new baby.

Quoting Precious333: Good point. I wonder though if they wentbthat route after all else had failed?
Quoting mem82:

If this family had chosen to go the normal route to get citizenship or a green card they would have been able to do this. They CHOOSE to go for asylum. Asylum is supposed to be for people that are in actual mortal danger or at least risk of great bodily harm. Because the lawyers they got, and they people they hang out with wanted to have an agenda not based on the specific needs of this family, they are now facing deportation.

 

 

 

bluerooffarm
by Gold Member on Mar. 5, 2014 at 6:30 PM

Now that does make some sense.  Thanks.

Quoting JKronrod:

 If they remain citizens of Germany, I suspect (guessing here) that they would be more likely to face return to Germany.  Europe seems a lot less friendly to home schooling than the U.S.  And I think that there is also a certain amount of suspicion about their particular brand of Christianity. 

Quoting bluerooffarm:

Here's my question.... why here?  Why America?  According to the Schengen Agreement a family can move around Europe without really needing Visas or anything (correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe 26 countries signed that agreement in the 90's).  There are countries in the EU that are very homeschooling friendly (Belgium, Austria and Poland are all bordering countries with lots of German co-ops etc to choose from).  They just seemed to want international coverage for this.




JKronrod
by Bronze Member on Mar. 5, 2014 at 8:10 PM
3 moms liked this

 I know that I don't know all of what they went through before they took the step -- which I cannot believe they took lightly -- of coming to the U.S.   I doubt any of us on this list, even those who have been following this case to some degree, really do, so I"m a bit leery of saying "they should have done ...."

Also, the problem here is that if you say that "home schooling is not a basic right" -- or more precisely "the choice of education of your own children is not your right as a parent" -- you are saying that the government has the right to control your children's education. (If you aren't then the choice stays with the parent, and home schooling, presumably, can be part  of that choice and thus follows from the "basic right".)   Phrasing it as "home schooling is a basic right" is misleading.  There is a bigger question of "who decides."  Although there are always (ALWAYS) issues, it is my belief that the choice of education fundamentally must reside with the parent barring extreme situations (abuse, neglect, etc.)   Otherwise, if the government has the unrestricted ability to dictate that your children go to a particular place at a particular time and learn a particular view point for six or eight or whatever number of hours each day, what exactly distinguishes that from saying that your children need to be at an "education camp" nine months of the year?  I'm not saying that I truly fear that the U.S. government will take my children, but we need to think very carefully about who should have final say.  Certain things, if not "basic rights," follow from basic rights, and if we concede those points, the consequences, eventually, could be disastrous. 

Quoting KickButtMama:

I agree w/ mem. There are LEGAL  routes this family could have taken. Plus Germany has great schools - I've been in them. So I guess I agree that homeschooling is not a basic right. In a perfect world I like the idea of group education, I just think American schools (the majority) stink.

 

kirbymom
by Sonja on Mar. 7, 2014 at 10:33 PM
1 mom liked this
Why would we not believe that educating our children at home is not a right? It s. It is because it is a fundamental right of choice. To either choose to or to choose not to educate your child(ren) at home. It is like anything else in being human. Whether it is this country or any other country.

If any one "right to choice" is taken away, then it isn't long before All "rights to choice" are taken away and we are no longer a human being but an animal with limited freedom and very few "choices". No One wants to live that way.
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