OT- Charged as adults?

 Some of you might know I'm a huge crime buff. I'm often fascinated, and mildly horrified, at the vast differences from state to state (and country to country) when it comes to crime and punishment.

It is not uncommon for children who commit felonies to be tried and convicted as adults here in the US - there was a story several years back of a 10 year old who killed his 6 year old neighbor and he got life in prison. Whereas it's more common in other industrialized nations for child offenders to face reabilitation (since statistically child-offenders are unlikely to re-offend). For instance, in Canada several years ago, a 12 year old girl arranged with her 26 year old boyfriend to have her parents and brother killed. She will be released from youth rehabilitation when she turns 21.

So, I started to wonder....we have a large variety of backgrounds here....what are your thoughts on youth offenders. ...

I ask because of the popularity recently of charging bullies with harassment/assualt. These are often children harassing other children. Are we considering locking these kids up and throwing away the key?

I'm a mom of a child on the autism spectrum. So the following story breaks my heart imagining this happening to my son. The older teen is being charged as an adult while the younger has initially been charged as a juvenile (but they are considering upping the charges)..

2 MD Teen Girls Accused Of Turturing an Autistic Boy

Maryland – Police say two Maryland teenagers recorded themselves physically assaulting an autistic classmate and forcing him to perform sex acts, some with animals.

St. Mary County Sheriff’s Department said 17-year-old Lauren Bush and an unidentified 15-year-old girl admitted they assaulted the 16-year-old autistic boy with a knife on multiple occasions between December and February.

Sheriff Tim Cameron said all three teens attend Chopticon High School and that the girls preyed on the boy. They allegedly assaulted him with a knife, kicked him in the groin, dragged him by the hair, coerced him to engage in a sex act with an animal, and forced him to walk on a partially frozen pond where he fell through the ice.

The latter act being a possibly deadly one according to Sgt. Cara Grumbels. ”You’re dealing with somebody who doesn’t have the mental capacity of you and I,” she said. “Somebody like that could go into a kiddie pool and may not be able to get themselves out. That’s what’s really kind of disturbing to us, among the other allegations in this case. The whole thing’s just very disturbing.”

Police got involved after the younger girl’s mother found video of the bullying on her daughter’s cell phone and showed the video to a sheriff’s deputy who works in the school. Both girls admitted to the assaults. Police say there is no evidence that the videos were posted online or any that other students were involved.

Lauren Bush has been charged as an adult, while the 15-year-old was charged as a juvenile. They’ve each been charged with two counts of first-degree assault, two counts of second-degree assault, child pornography and false imprisonment.

Read more: http://www.dreamindemon.com/2014/03/13/lauren-bush-teen-girls-accused-forcing-autistic-boy-perform-sex-acts-knifepoint/#ixzz2wGG3Ortc
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[Chasing3]

given that the mom went to such lengths to report the crime, I have to wonder if her daughter succumbed to negative peer pressure and the other girl was the ringleader?

Not that I believe my kids are old enough to hear the details on crimes like this, but it is something where I'd talk to them about how if you ever saw someone being treated really badly and didn't do anything about it, you could be charged with a crime too.

[TidewaterClan]

We have more prisoners, but other countries like China have way more death sentences carried out - 2,000 versus our 47 in 2010.

This article is pretty interesting: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/top-five-of-the-world’s-executing-countries.html

Not trying to argue with you Tansy, but I figured we couldn't be the worst country as far as overall prison systems go. China and Iran are just fast on the draw so to speak so their prisoners don't show up necessarily.

Quoting tansyflower:

i personally hate our penal system.  we have more people incarcerated than any other industrialized country...why?  because we think human beings are disposable.  instead of trying to help a flawed human being become a better person, they treat them like animals then wonder why they behave like one.  if it were up to me our prison system as a whole would be totally different.

and yes, i feel that way about children as well as adults.  treating people with dignity and respect regardless of what they did is the first step in helping offenders connect to the internal struggles that led them to commit a crime in the first place.

[KickButtMama]

Quoting kirbymom: I was raised that parents are still responsible for the actions of their child(ren) . So, if I did something illegal, my parents were still responsible for what I did and had to make some sort of restitution (somehow) as well as myself make restitution for my actions.

Quoting AutymsMommy:

Just for the sake of discussion...

I was a horrid teen - from a wonderful family; SAH step mom, nice clothing, upper middle class existence, business owner daddy, involved parents who tucked me into bed at night (sure, there was a bit of dysfunction, but every family has that). There is nothing my parents did to make me act out the way I did (including teenage arrests, suspensions, expulsion, and ultimately teenage pregnancy). They weren't responsible at that point. They couldn't make me stop - I lied and they knew nothing about half of it until it was too late.

Quoting kirbymom: I saw this! It's horrible and tragic! Why aren't the parents stepping up and taking some responsibility for these girls' actions abd behaviour?

I highly recommend this book - http://www.amazon.com/Azims-Bardo-Fathers-Journey-Forgiveness/dp/0933670028 

the father of a 17 y/o pizza delivery boy who was murdered by a 14 y/o joins forces with the murderers grandfather (who was raising him). They travel the country together speaking our against teen violence and for the power of forgiveness. It's a beautiful story to come from such tragedy.

[KickButtMama]

I saw a show last night on the crazy atmosphere of pranks, and how random people doing outrageous pranks can become famous. Since the girls filmed everything I wonder if it wasn't seen as 'harmless' pranks? Some of the pranks out there are seriously messed up. In fact the more messed up the more popular they become.

[TidewaterClan]

This is a tough question Shannon. I can't imagine girls this age not knowing what they were doing was incredibly wrong. I understand what you and the other ladies are saying about life in prison versus rehabilitation, but I hate it when I see repeat offenders on the news too.

No matter how good their rehabilitation would go I personally would want them to be listed on the sheriff's offenders list so neighbors have knowledge that they shouldn't leave their own children with these females.

[bluerooffarm]

China and Iran are not company I would like the US to be keeping.  Yikes. :-)

Quoting TidewaterClan: We have more prisoners, but other countries like China have way more death sentences carried out - 2,000 versus our 47 in 2010. This article is pretty interesting: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/top-five-of-the-world’s-executing-countries.html Not trying to argue with you Tansy, but I figured we couldn't be the worst country as far as overall prison systems go. China and Iran are just fast on the draw so to speak so their prisoners don't show up necessarily.

Quoting tansyflower:

i personally hate our penal system.  we have more people incarcerated than any other industrialized country...why?  because we think human beings are disposable.  instead of trying to help a flawed human being become a better person, they treat them like animals then wonder why they behave like one.  if it were up to me our prison system as a whole would be totally different.

and yes, i feel that way about children as well as adults.  treating people with dignity and respect regardless of what they did is the first step in helping offenders connect to the internal struggles that led them to commit a crime in the first place.

[KickButtMama]

I agree, it's a difficult issue with no clear cut answers. 

Quoting TidewaterClan: This is a tough question Shannon. I can't imagine girls this age not knowing what they were doing was incredibly wrong. I understand what you and the other ladies are saying about life in prison versus rehabilitation, but I hate it when I see repeat offenders on the news too. No matter how good their rehabilitation would go I personally would want them to be listed on the sheriff's offenders list so neighbors have knowledge that they shouldn't leave their own children with these females.

[TidewaterClan]

No kidding. They've had those three friends who went hiking from Northern Iraq into Iran on the news. The solitary confinement sounds horrible.

Quoting bluerooffarm:

China and Iran are not company I would like the US to be keeping.  Yikes. :-)

Quoting TidewaterClan: We have more prisoners, but other countries like China have way more death sentences carried out - 2,000 versus our 47 in 2010.

This article is pretty interesting: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/top-five-of-the-world’s-executing-countries.html

Not trying to argue with you Tansy, but I figured we couldn't be the worst country as far as overall prison systems go. China and Iran are just fast on the draw so to speak so their prisoners don't show up necessarily.

Quoting tansyflower:

i personally hate our penal system.  we have more people incarcerated than any other industrialized country...why?  because we think human beings are disposable.  instead of trying to help a flawed human being become a better person, they treat them like animals then wonder why they behave like one.  if it were up to me our prison system as a whole would be totally different.

and yes, i feel that way about children as well as adults.  treating people with dignity and respect regardless of what they did is the first step in helping offenders connect to the internal struggles that led them to commit a crime in the first place.

[bluerooffarm]

Yeah, the human rights or even inhumane treatment in those countries is appalling.  

Quoting TidewaterClan: No kidding. They've had those three friends who went hiking from Northern Iraq into Iran on the news. The solitary confinement sounds horrible.

Quoting bluerooffarm:

China and Iran are not company I would like the US to be keeping.  Yikes. :-)

Quoting TidewaterClan: We have more prisoners, but other countries like China have way more death sentences carried out - 2,000 versus our 47 in 2010. This article is pretty interesting: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/top-five-of-the-world’s-executing-countries.html Not trying to argue with you Tansy, but I figured we couldn't be the worst country as far as overall prison systems go. China and Iran are just fast on the draw so to speak so their prisoners don't show up necessarily.

Quoting tansyflower:

i personally hate our penal system.  we have more people incarcerated than any other industrialized country...why?  because we think human beings are disposable.  instead of trying to help a flawed human being become a better person, they treat them like animals then wonder why they behave like one.  if it were up to me our prison system as a whole would be totally different.

and yes, i feel that way about children as well as adults.  treating people with dignity and respect regardless of what they did is the first step in helping offenders connect to the internal struggles that led them to commit a crime in the first place.

[yssasa]

hwblyf:

Today's kids are committing horrible crimes that many people only associate with adults. It's the parent responsible to seek help for their child if they know something is "wrong" with them. To make society pay the price by allowing these kids to be rehabilitated and then go out again a commit more crimes, is very selfish if you ask me. I say JAIL them!