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I guess this is a spin off of Pagans post about her dog. I'm fairly shocked at how many respondents said they do not trust the police nor do they teach their children to trust the police... I'm not one for blind trust, ever. I teach my kids to be cognizant of the laws and where to find them...but for youngsters, I taught my boys that police and fireman as safe zones in the event of an emergency - they get lost, I have a heart attack/stroke (always a possibility with my condition), fire, etc. In fact I took my very young toddlers on tours of the police station & fire house so they could not be frightened by all the equipment if there was a fire or other emergency.....

if you teach to trust no one, how do you teach safety in an emergency? 

by on Apr. 7, 2014 at 7:34 AM
Replies (41-47):
kirbymom
by Sonja on Apr. 10, 2014 at 2:27 AM
Sometimes, you have NO CHOICE but to trust someone you do not know. This is what I mean ...

I was pregnant with my 5th child and woke up one mornibg as usual. Hubby and I both got up at 6 am to get him off to work (2 hours away). Well, as my morning was progressing it started to feel like I was going into labor. Problem was, I was always having those first hours of labor then would settle down. This day it was different. I would settle down only long enough to get a breath. I called hubby and informed him of what was going on and he decided to start back home. Well, low and vehold I went into full fledged labor with 4 other kids looking on! I kept in phone contact until hubby passed through a canyon where there were NO towers, telephone poles, nothing from which to bounce a signal from. I tried everythibg I could think of to hopefully slow down what was happening. No chance of that happening! And since we lived 30 minutes from the nearest hospital, I had to just hope hubby made it back in time. Well, with this pregnancy I had thought about home birth but changed my mind on the "just in case " idea. I even researched how home births were done, including how to deal with the umbilical cord. Well, it came to the point that hubby just wasn't going to make it back in time. And labor was starting to go pretty fast. Well all of a sudden, I knew it was time. I couldn't go in an ambulance and leave my 4 other kids by themselves as we had no friends there and not one trusted neighbor either. So I was stuck. Then it was time. I had to get on the bed and I gave birth right there with my 4 kids peeking from around the corner of the door asking if I was alright and did I need anything. No sweeties, not yet but would you go watch tv for a little bit? Then I gave birth. Problem was, I couldn't remember how to tie off the umbilical cord! So I called 911 and apoligized for bothering them but could they please refresh my memory on how to tie off my umbilical cord and the woman was like..you just gave birth and you want to know WHAT? !! Her response was, oh honey where do you live we are going to send the EMT's. I said oh okay. It just happened that the people who came were volunteer EMT's and the sent the whole shift to my house. Now here is where implicit trust has to happen. These people just walked in right to my bedroom and started to take care of me. And, because if the uniqueness of the situation there were about 20 people there. Half taking care of me and the other half taking care of my children. I was absolutely NO POSITION to NOT to trust that my kids would be taken care of. The best part is that 5 munutes after I gave birth, the emt's were there and 5 minutes after that hubby walks in to help rake care of me and the kids. Then I got to go on my 2nd ever ambulance ride.
That was a day that I shall never forget. No matter how Alzheimer's I may get. I HAD TO TRUST that 5 of the most important things in my life would be well taken care of!
THAT is putting implicit trust in someone when you've never had any good reason to before.
JasonsMom2007
by Member on Apr. 10, 2014 at 2:32 AM
Since we know the fire chief and a policeman my kids are pretty trusting of them. I try to get through to them that knowing one doesn't mean they know them all.
celtic77dragon
by Member on Apr. 10, 2014 at 2:59 AM
I would have wanted to clear up the issue then and there rather than trying to clear it up in front of a judge later. The cop wouldn't have even had to ask, I would've been showing him.

I always only turned in what was required as well. I did though keep standards in mind, worked hard to provide a good education, and would have offered proof if I was being challenged. I would have wanted to!


Quoting TJandKarasMom:

We taught our kids the same thing.  I wouldn't say I don't trust the police in an emergency where my kids need someone's help...I would tell them if they were lost or needed help, a police officer is the person to go to.

The way that I am careful with them is knowing my constitutional rights and being prepared to stand up for myself, and I try to teach my kids the same.  I haven't had to do this yet (hopefully there wouldn't be a need to)...but for an example, my boss was telling me how she got pulled over recently and was made to feel like a criminal and the officer even said "were you texting and driving? let me look at your phone"  she handed it over...and my reaction to her story was "you have every right NOT to hand over your phone.  You were not in an accident, you were not texting and driving, he had no right to go through your personal property without a good reason."  Too many people give up their rights, which makes it harder to get them back.  And it makes it harder on everyone else. 

It's similar to homeschooling...we follow the law to the letter, but we don't give an inch more...because there is no reason to and it can make even more restrictions if everyone is just willing to follow unlawful restrictions.  My mom even said yesterday, we were talking about when I told her about our decision to hs, she said "I was just curious how you would prove to the state that you were teaching them" my response...."they are not the state's kids, they are my kids-well our kids-I don't have to prove anything to anyone."

People are too quick to figure 'I'm not doing anything wrong, so I will prove it'  it's not up to us to prove our innocence, it is up to the justice system to prove our guilt...and it needs to stay that way.  If everyone keeps just giving up their freedoms for "security", soon we will have no freedoms left.  And that scares me.

KickButtMama
by Shannon on Apr. 10, 2014 at 7:42 AM
1 mom liked this

What an awesome story to pass on! I'm so glad it all worked out well!

But this is exactly what I mean. Maybe I have to look at things differently than most people because I have a severe medical condition where I could have a heart attack or stroke at any time. If I were in even a fender bender I'd have to go straight to the ER because my blood is so thin.....I know I have to trust emergency responders. I don't have the luxury of reading into their motives. I've dealt with jerky 911 operators, cops..heck even EMTs -though they are usually only jerky when they realize I went and got an EMT certification just because of my condition, I trust them to help, but if I'm conscious then I KNOW what they should/shouldn't be doing..lol

Quoting kirbymom: Sometimes, you have NO CHOICE but to trust someone you do not know. This is what I mean ... I was pregnant with my 5th child and woke up one mornibg as usual. Hubby and I both got up at 6 am to get him off to work (2 hours away). Well, as my morning was progressing it started to feel like I was going into labor. Problem was, I was always having those first hours of labor then would settle down. This day it was different. I would settle down only long enough to get a breath. I called hubby and informed him of what was going on and he decided to start back home. Well, low and vehold I went into full fledged labor with 4 other kids looking on! I kept in phone contact until hubby passed through a canyon where there were NO towers, telephone poles, nothing from which to bounce a signal from. I tried everythibg I could think of to hopefully slow down what was happening. No chance of that happening! And since we lived 30 minutes from the nearest hospital, I had to just hope hubby made it back in time. Well, with this pregnancy I had thought about home birth but changed my mind on the "just in case " idea. I even researched how home births were done, including how to deal with the umbilical cord. Well, it came to the point that hubby just wasn't going to make it back in time. And labor was starting to go pretty fast. Well all of a sudden, I knew it was time. I couldn't go in an ambulance and leave my 4 other kids by themselves as we had no friends there and not one trusted neighbor either. So I was stuck. Then it was time. I had to get on the bed and I gave birth right there with my 4 kids peeking from around the corner of the door asking if I was alright and did I need anything. No sweeties, not yet but would you go watch tv for a little bit? Then I gave birth. Problem was, I couldn't remember how to tie off the umbilical cord! So I called 911 and apoligized for bothering them but could they please refresh my memory on how to tie off my umbilical cord and the woman was like..you just gave birth and you want to know WHAT? !! Her response was, oh honey where do you live we are going to send the EMT's. I said oh okay. It just happened that the people who came were volunteer EMT's and the sent the whole shift to my house. Now here is where implicit trust has to happen. These people just walked in right to my bedroom and started to take care of me. And, because if the uniqueness of the situation there were about 20 people there. Half taking care of me and the other half taking care of my children. I was absolutely NO POSITION to NOT to trust that my kids would be taken care of. The best part is that 5 munutes after I gave birth, the emt's were there and 5 minutes after that hubby walks in to help rake care of me and the kids. Then I got to go on my 2nd ever ambulance ride. That was a day that I shall never forget. No matter how Alzheimer's I may get. I HAD TO TRUST that 5 of the most important things in my life would be well taken care of! THAT is putting implicit trust in someone when you've never had any good reason to before.


TJandKarasMom
by Debbie on Apr. 10, 2014 at 9:12 AM
See I think this is the problem. We do not have to PROVE our innocence, they have to prove our guilt...innocent until proven guilty. I think too many people are quick to try to prove they're doing nothing wrong because they just want to prove they're doing nothing wrong, which I understand, but this sets up an expectation that we all have to prove our innocence and that is not how our justice system is set up.

I used to be very much like this, 'I'm not doing anything wrong so I don't have a problem showing that.' But now I understand that it's actually my right to not have to prove it, and since I have many constitutional rights I am not willing to give up, why should I give up this one? It's part of my right to privacy, that police officer has no need to read through my text messages or see whom I have been calling, if he is pulling me over for speeding or a taillight being out.

I have this same feeling about "checkpoints." I've heard that there are some between states, I haven't run into in the east but I have seen YouTube videos of them in the west. At these checkpoints they ask "are you an American citizen?" Most people just answer, because of course I am and I'm proud of it! However, this really opens the door for "prove it, show me your id" which can quickly lead to "papers please." And I am not willing to live in anything near a Nazi society.

I just feel that we have a constitution, I believe strongly in it, and so I will not give up my rights, no matter how small a request may be, it's my right to not obey that request (if it infringes on my constitutional rights).

Quoting celtic77dragon: I would have wanted to clear up the issue then and there rather than trying to clear it up in front of a judge later. The cop wouldn't have even had to ask, I would've been showing him.

I always only turned in what was required as well. I did though keep standards in mind, worked hard to provide a good education, and would have offered proof if I was being challenged. I would have wanted to!


Quoting TJandKarasMom:

We taught our kids the same thing.  I wouldn't say I don't trust the police in an emergency where my kids need someone's help...I would tell them if they were lost or needed help, a police officer is the person to go to.

The way that I am careful with them is knowing my constitutional rights and being prepared to stand up for myself, and I try to teach my kids the same.  I haven't had to do this yet (hopefully there wouldn't be a need to)...but for an example, my boss was telling me how she got pulled over recently and was made to feel like a criminal and the officer even said "were you texting and driving? let me look at your phone"  she handed it over...and my reaction to her story was "you have every right NOT to hand over your phone.  You were not in an accident, you were not texting and driving, he had no right to go through your personal property without a good reason."  Too many people give up their rights, which makes it harder to get them back.  And it makes it harder on everyone else. 

It's similar to homeschooling...we follow the law to the letter, but we don't give an inch more...because there is no reason to and it can make even more restrictions if everyone is just willing to follow unlawful restrictions.  My mom even said yesterday, we were talking about when I told her about our decision to hs, she said "I was just curious how you would prove to the state that you were teaching them" my response...."they are not the state's kids, they are my kids-well our kids-I don't have to prove anything to anyone."

People are too quick to figure 'I'm not doing anything wrong, so I will prove it'  it's not up to us to prove our innocence, it is up to the justice system to prove our guilt...and it needs to stay that way.  If everyone keeps just giving up their freedoms for "security", soon we will have no freedoms left.  And that scares me.

kirbymom
by Sonja on Apr. 10, 2014 at 12:23 PM
Well thank you. :)
Yeah, it is definitely quite a story considering that it all happened by accident! lol




Quoting KickButtMama:

What an awesome story to pass on! I'm so glad it all worked out well!

But this is exactly what I mean. Maybe I have to look at things differently than most people because I have a severe medical condition where I could have a heart attack or stroke at any time. If I were in even a fender bender I'd have to go straight to the ER because my blood is so thin.....I know I have to trust emergency responders. I don't have the luxury of reading into their motives. I've dealt with jerky 911 operators, cops..heck even EMTs -though they are usually only jerky when they realize I went and got an EMT certification just because of my condition, I trust them to help, but if I'm conscious then I KNOW what they should/shouldn't be doing..lol

Quoting kirbymom: Sometimes, you have NO CHOICE but to trust someone you do not know. This is what I mean ...

I was pregnant with my 5th child and woke up one mornibg as usual. Hubby and I both got up at 6 am to get him off to work (2 hours away). Well, as my morning was progressing it started to feel like I was going into labor. Problem was, I was always having those first hours of labor then would settle down. This day it was different. I would settle down only long enough to get a breath. I called hubby and informed him of what was going on and he decided to start back home. Well, low and vehold I went into full fledged labor with 4 other kids looking on! I kept in phone contact until hubby passed through a canyon where there were NO towers, telephone poles, nothing from which to bounce a signal from. I tried everythibg I could think of to hopefully slow down what was happening. No chance of that happening! And since we lived 30 minutes from the nearest hospital, I had to just hope hubby made it back in time. Well, with this pregnancy I had thought about home birth but changed my mind on the "just in case " idea. I even researched how home births were done, including how to deal with the umbilical cord. Well, it came to the point that hubby just wasn't going to make it back in time. And labor was starting to go pretty fast. Well all of a sudden, I knew it was time. I couldn't go in an ambulance and leave my 4 other kids by themselves as we had no friends there and not one trusted neighbor either. So I was stuck. Then it was time. I had to get on the bed and I gave birth right there with my 4 kids peeking from around the corner of the door asking if I was alright and did I need anything. No sweeties, not yet but would you go watch tv for a little bit? Then I gave birth. Problem was, I couldn't remember how to tie off the umbilical cord! So I called 911 and apoligized for bothering them but could they please refresh my memory on how to tie off my umbilical cord and the woman was like..you just gave birth and you want to know WHAT? !! Her response was, oh honey where do you live we are going to send the EMT's. I said oh okay. It just happened that the people who came were volunteer EMT's and the sent the whole shift to my house. Now here is where implicit trust has to happen. These people just walked in right to my bedroom and started to take care of me. And, because if the uniqueness of the situation there were about 20 people there. Half taking care of me and the other half taking care of my children. I was absolutely NO POSITION to NOT to trust that my kids would be taken care of. The best part is that 5 munutes after I gave birth, the emt's were there and 5 minutes after that hubby walks in to help rake care of me and the kids. Then I got to go on my 2nd ever ambulance ride.
That was a day that I shall never forget. No matter how Alzheimer's I may get. I HAD TO TRUST that 5 of the most important things in my life would be well taken care of!
THAT is putting implicit trust in someone when you've never had any good reason to before.

celtic77dragon
by Member on Apr. 10, 2014 at 4:16 PM
I get the point of view you have. It is a common one. I pick my battles and frankly those examples you gave simply just aren't one of them for me.

I am a busy single mom of 3 kids. I can't afford to miss work over a court date to fight an officers mistake of thinking I was on a cell phone. BUT, I keep my phone in the glove box when I drive so I doubt the officer would proceed too far anyways after seeing me reach way over there to show where I keep it.

I think a judge would question why I didn't show a reasonable proof at the time of the incident. I don't want to rely on a he said - she said in a court room. And there is some burden of proof of innocence that needs proven. It is naive to think otherwise (in any situation).

With homeschooling regulations the truth is that I am proud of what I have done and would gladly (and with great pride) show off what we had done. I also would not want my families name and reputation marked by such allegations.

In Texas I went through one of those checkpoints. It was in a random area where I wouldn't have suspected one at. I am from Pa and had never experienced that before. At a stop sign, at night, they jumped out of nowhere wearing all black and came to my window with the most intimidating presence. I wouldnt even roll down my window. I yelled at him to show me his badge so that I knew that he was legit. He did so and i then proceeded to give him my drivers license and such. They wanted to know why I was in Texas and for how long. I didn't HAVE to provide all the info. I CHOSE to because I SUPPORT the job they are out there doing.

I hate the constant comparison to nazi's that I hear people make. The comparisons are extreme and kind of insulting.

I understand that people have jobs to do, that mistakes are sometimes made and that people deserve a bit of slack and respect. I also know that there are stereotypes that wrongly motivate people but that a bit patience and understanding can clear those misconceptions up.

That is just my honest point of view anyways.

Quoting TJandKarasMom: See I think this is the problem. We do not have to PROVE our innocence, they have to prove our guilt...innocent until proven guilty. I think too many people are quick to try to prove they're doing nothing wrong because they just want to prove they're doing nothing wrong, which I understand, but this sets up an expectation that we all have to prove our innocence and that is not how our justice system is set up.

I used to be very much like this, 'I'm not doing anything wrong so I don't have a problem showing that.' But now I understand that it's actually my right to not have to prove it, and since I have many constitutional rights I am not willing to give up, why should I give up this one? It's part of my right to privacy, that police officer has no need to read through my text messages or see whom I have been calling, if he is pulling me over for speeding or a taillight being out.

I have this same feeling about "checkpoints." I've heard that there are some between states, I haven't run into in the east but I have seen YouTube videos of them in the west. At these checkpoints they ask "are you an American citizen?" Most people just answer, because of course I am and I'm proud of it! However, this really opens the door for "prove it, show me your id" which can quickly lead to "papers please." And I am not willing to live in anything near a Nazi society.

I just feel that we have a constitution, I believe strongly in it, and so I will not give up my rights, no matter how small a request may be, it's my right to not obey that request (if it infringes on my constitutional rights).

Quoting celtic77dragon: I would have wanted to clear up the issue then and there rather than trying to clear it up in front of a judge later. The cop wouldn't have even had to ask, I would've been showing him.

I always only turned in what was required as well. I did though keep standards in mind, worked hard to provide a good education, and would have offered proof if I was being challenged. I would have wanted to!


Quoting TJandKarasMom:

We taught our kids the same thing.  I wouldn't say I don't trust the police in an emergency where my kids need someone's help...I would tell them if they were lost or needed help, a police officer is the person to go to.

The way that I am careful with them is knowing my constitutional rights and being prepared to stand up for myself, and I try to teach my kids the same.  I haven't had to do this yet (hopefully there wouldn't be a need to)...but for an example, my boss was telling me how she got pulled over recently and was made to feel like a criminal and the officer even said "were you texting and driving? let me look at your phone"  she handed it over...and my reaction to her story was "you have every right NOT to hand over your phone.  You were not in an accident, you were not texting and driving, he had no right to go through your personal property without a good reason."  Too many people give up their rights, which makes it harder to get them back.  And it makes it harder on everyone else. 

It's similar to homeschooling...we follow the law to the letter, but we don't give an inch more...because there is no reason to and it can make even more restrictions if everyone is just willing to follow unlawful restrictions.  My mom even said yesterday, we were talking about when I told her about our decision to hs, she said "I was just curious how you would prove to the state that you were teaching them" my response...."they are not the state's kids, they are my kids-well our kids-I don't have to prove anything to anyone."

People are too quick to figure 'I'm not doing anything wrong, so I will prove it'  it's not up to us to prove our innocence, it is up to the justice system to prove our guilt...and it needs to stay that way.  If everyone keeps just giving up their freedoms for "security", soon we will have no freedoms left.  And that scares me.

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