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Math Battles every.single.day..help me please

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Seriously every day math is a battle.  I have tried everything I can think of.  We started MUS recently, DD is 10.5 5th grade, this is our first year hsing.  I have tried many different methods and MUS is finally one that seems to work, but I am wondering if I let her start too far ahead.  I let her start with Delta (division).  She does not have all of her multiplication facts memorized, but I had kind of come to terms with the fact that she probably never will. 

We started the year with a text book, adjusted it almost immediately, then ditched it completely.  We have tried math games, Khan academy, we did a math journal for geometry which she enjoyed but still complained about.  She cannot deal with criticism, every time I try to show her something is wrong she starts throwing a fit.  She won't admit she's wrong, and refuses to listen at first.  I end up engaging most of the time even though I try very hard not to engage with her being argumentative and just rude. 

MUS was working, now she is at lesson 17 and it's getting hard, before this it was mostly review and it went well.  It now takes her an hour or more to complete one worksheet.  She does everything possible to stay distracted and not focus. 

I have her doing review on Mondays, so she does a 'test' from MUS and then something to review multiplication.  Yesterday she chose not to do the math game I left for her, so she started with that this morning.  She was so mad that I was making her review, she thinks she doesn't need it, but the reasonw e are doing it is because she really does need it.  I have explained repeatedly that it is not a punishment, it's supposed to be a fun way to practice.  I have explained that knowing multiplication facts makes division soooo much easier.   

It basically comes down to she hates math and just wants to refuse it no matter what I do.  I have tried everything to make it fun and enjoyable for her, and she still has a fit.  So I hate putting in extra effort when she refuses to even try :(

I am just tired.  I don't know what else to do.  Should I get MUS Gamma (multiplication) and make her do that instead of the division?  Should I just have her practice/review more instead of moving forward in Delta? 

*I am not ok with her just not doing math.  We feel math is too important to not have to learn it.  I also don't want to switch curriculum again, I am ok with switching things up a couple days a week, but I can't keep buying her new curriculum when one gets too hard.

by on Apr. 8, 2014 at 7:22 PM
Replies (21-30):
TJandKarasMom
by Debbie on Apr. 9, 2014 at 10:29 AM

Since she is only in 5th grade, I feel like I have time to give her a strong foundation for future work experience.  My expectations were very high because of my advanced older kiddo, so I have just adjusted them to be more grade level for her, not below.  Her reading and comprehension are just above grade level, her writing is on grade level or a little above...in fact I just showed her second draft of a research paper to my client's mom and she was shocked my 5th grader did work that well. And that wasn't even her final draft.

She doesn't know my expectations have been lowered, she is required to complete assignments given to her.  I just readjust for future assignments if necessary.  I am certainly not dumbing things down for her, as we require her to be at least on grade level. 

I think a big part of the issues is her pushing her boundaries.  She doesn't want to have to do school work and if it is the slightest bit challenging she pushes back.  She doesn't get out of doing it, but it may take her all day to do two hours worth of work because she fights the whole time.

Quoting mem82:

I strongly urge you to get professional help for the dyslexia. Her future employers aren't going to adjust anything for her and lowering your expectations may make her feel like you are dumbing things down to her. This could be a large part of the issues you've been having with her.

Quoting TJandKarasMom:

She doesn't get anything for dyslexia, just me adjusting her lessons based on it.  I have lowered my expectations and taught her everything else in different ways.

I think she may also have ADD, so I am looking into some natural ways to try to help with that.

Quoting mem82:

Is she getting therapy for the dyslexia? Frustration from that could bleed over into every thing she does.

Quoting TJandKarasMom:

I think she is dyslexic, I've tested her, but haven't had her professionally tested.

I will look for those cards, I hadn't heard of them before.  I may just go ahead and back up.  I'm wondering if I should invest in MUS at the multiplication level or stick with worksheets. 

Thanks for the help, as usual :)

Quoting AutymsMommy: Is she dyslexic? I think you've been concerned about that before. My dyslexic dd had a terribly hard time with multiplication facts, despite being mathy. As a result, division was torture. I would recommend backing up. Have you seen Diane Craft's right brain multiplication cards?




KrissyKC
by Silver Member on Apr. 9, 2014 at 1:47 PM
2 moms liked this
I agree on getting the eval and help for dyslexia.

After that, you can start equipping yourself with how to teach her to learn with dyslexia as opposed to "dumbing stuff down"

I know that it helps to isolate the problems or the lines she is working on. They suggest using paper or something to cover the lines above and below the ones being read when working with dyslexia. Maybe isolating the problem (rewrite them one at a time on the board or covering part of the paper) might help.

KickButtMama
by Shannon on Apr. 9, 2014 at 5:37 PM

Have you tried ixl.com? My youngest was dragging his feet with workbooks and such, but he does really well with ixl, and It's kinda cheap. It's just like an online workbook, but the fact that he can do it on the kindle makes him think it's not 'schoolwork'

TJandKarasMom
by Debbie on Apr. 9, 2014 at 7:48 PM
Good idea. We did look through ixl and did some sample problems. Maybe a good idea to have her do it on the iPad, then it dosnt feel like work.

Quoting KickButtMama:

Have you tried ixl.com? My youngest was dragging his feet with workbooks and such, but he does really well with ixl, and It's kinda cheap. It's just like an online workbook, but the fact that he can do it on the kindle makes him think it's not 'schoolwork'

AutymsMommy
by Silver Member on Apr. 9, 2014 at 9:39 PM
2 moms liked this

I have to very gently agree with Mem. Don't hate me :(

My daughter reads well above grade level. Not all dyslexia presents "classically". My daughter DOES have very serious working memory issues and problems spelling (as well as writing, but is making amazing progress there).

If your dd is dyslexic, no amount of adjusting curriculum and expectations is going to actually *help* the dyslexia. It will help her, maybe, get through the work at hand, but will do nothing for her ability to learn and work long term. She needs (sincerely needs) orton gillingham tutoring on some level. If you can't afford a dx (and I do know they are very, very pricey out of pocket), there is nothing to be lost (even if she isn't dyslexic) using curriculum specifically designed for children with "dyslexia-like" presentations... the right brain multiplication cards I mentioned, a writing program like IEW, a spiral math program (not like the public school one she was using - something like cle; ime, children with working memory issues, such as your dd is presenting with considering her problems memorizing facts very rarely do well with a mastery program, even if they hate sprial itself), an OG based spelling program, etc. Using curriculum and methods meant for neurotypical children, without an OG background yourself to "re-invent the wheel", will help her learn how to compensate and band-aid the problems, not make them better or easier.

Again, I absolutely do NOT say this to chastise you... I say it because I wish someone had said it to me, several years ago.


I am a Home Schooling, Vaccinating, Non spanking, Nightmare Cuddling, Dessert Giving, Bedtime Kissing, Book Reading, Stay at Home Mom. I believe in the benefit of organized after school activities and nosy, involved parents. I believe in spoiling my children. I believe that I have seen the village and I do not want it anywhere near my children. Now for the controversial stuff:  we're Catholic, we're conservative, and we own guns (now there's no need to ask, lol).             Aimee















kirbymom
by Sonja on Apr. 10, 2014 at 1:36 AM
2 moms liked this
I change over to hubby when a lesson/subject gets really frustrating and absolutely NOTHING is clicking.



Quoting TidewaterClan: This is me thinking not criticizing at all, so never think that please.

Do you like math? Are you excited/happy or already frustrated when you begin? Is it easier for her to give you a hard time than your hubs? Any chance he could be her math teacher & it would be any different?
kirbymom
by Sonja on Apr. 10, 2014 at 1:40 AM
I Love your contract idea! How easy or difficult was it to implement your plan?


Quoting No_Difference:

my daughter is 9 and we're doing that book this year too. The only difference is, Jamie loves math,  BUT she still likes to drag her feet horribly at times. We made a "contract" which applies to all school work, but it has helped tremendously. She gets an hour of "tech time" - but it could be anything at all that she likes doing - at the start of every day. Each subject gets a certain amount of time. I allotted 1/2 hr for math, even though she gets it done in 15 minutes typically. If she goes over the 1/2 hr, she loses time from her hour - how ever much longer it took her. If she finishes faster, then she gets the remainder time added to her hour. That way, it is entirely on her. Also, I started letting Jamie check her answer with a different color pen, so I was no longer the bad guy. Then we'd go over on the board the ones she did wrong. She'd show me how she did the problem, and we'd discuss where she went astray. It has helped with the attitude immensely!

kirbymom
by Sonja on Apr. 10, 2014 at 2:40 AM
1 mom liked this
Have you tried doing less quantity but more quality to help with the frustrations? Somestimes if you step back a touch and put that emphasis on something else for a few days, it helps to reset and refocus the mind.
No_Difference
by Silver Member on Apr. 10, 2014 at 7:08 AM
1 mom liked this

It was relatively easy. We typed it up, made her read it outloud. If there was something in it she wanted to change a little, she was given the opportunity to adjust the contract and a new version would be typed up. She'd read it aloud again, and then we both signed it. It is taped up on the wall where she does her work along with a maker board and dry erase marker to write down her start and end times when she starts an assignment. When she's finished, I help her figure out how long she took, and then tell her how much time she gets. 

That first week was still pretty rough since she really didn't believe me that it was taking her too long to do some of her assignments. Then she got a feel for what my expected times were, and we haven't had many problems since. There have been times where she went painfully slow again and owed me extra chores, but otherwise this process has been working really really well.  

Quoting kirbymom: I Love your contract idea! How easy or difficult was it to implement your plan?
Quoting No_Difference:

my daughter is 9 and we're doing that book this year too. The only difference is, Jamie loves math,  BUT she still likes to drag her feet horribly at times. We made a "contract" which applies to all school work, but it has helped tremendously. She gets an hour of "tech time" - but it could be anything at all that she likes doing - at the start of every day. Each subject gets a certain amount of time. I allotted 1/2 hr for math, even though she gets it done in 15 minutes typically. If she goes over the 1/2 hr, she loses time from her hour - how ever much longer it took her. If she finishes faster, then she gets the remainder time added to her hour. That way, it is entirely on her. Also, I started letting Jamie check her answer with a different color pen, so I was no longer the bad guy. Then we'd go over on the board the ones she did wrong. She'd show me how she did the problem, and we'd discuss where she went astray. It has helped with the attitude immensely!


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kirbymom
by Sonja on Apr. 10, 2014 at 2:45 PM
Did you have specific wording or was it just in general?



Quoting No_Difference:

It was relatively easy. We typed it up, made her read it outloud. If there was something in it she wanted to change a little, she was given the opportunity to adjust the contract and a new version would be typed up. She'd read it aloud again, and then we both signed it. It is taped up on the wall where she does her work along with a maker board and dry erase marker to write down her start and end times when she starts an assignment. When she's finished, I help her figure out how long she took, and then tell her how much time she gets. That first week was still pretty rough since she really didn't believe me that it was taking her too long to do some of her assignments. Then she got a feel for what my expected times were, and we haven't had many problems since. There have been times where she went painfully slow again and owed me extra chores, but otherwise this process has been working really really well.  

Quoting kirbymom: I Love your contract idea! How easy or difficult was it to implement your plan?


Quoting No_Difference:

my daughter is 9 and we're doing that book this year too. The only difference is, Jamie loves math,  BUT she still likes to drag her feet horribly at times. We made a "contract" which applies to all school work, but it has helped tremendously. She gets an hour of "tech time" - but it could be anything at all that she likes doing - at the start of every day. Each subject gets a certain amount of time. I allotted 1/2 hr for math, even though she gets it done in 15 minutes typically. If she goes over the 1/2 hr, she loses time from her hour - how ever much longer it took her. If she finishes faster, then she gets the remainder time added to her hour. That way, it is entirely on her. Also, I started letting Jamie check her answer with a different color pen, so I was no longer the bad guy. Then we'd go over on the board the ones she did wrong. She'd show me how she did the problem, and we'd discuss where she went astray. It has helped with the attitude immensely!

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