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Mom obviously only cares about herself if she says no to SM doing/being...

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Why is this the standard answer? 

This seems to be the go to answer for some SM's who seem to think that moms don't have a clue or are just selfish bints instead of looking at things like "if the parent is stressed it can stress out the kid more" or maybe the kid knows mom and SM dont' get along and don't realize that mom isnt' going to leave her kids side for SM to be there, which can cause stress (this is from the hospital post).

When it comes to school and mom doesn't want SM involved this same line is said (in different variations). 

But unless mom is explaining herself to SM (and I doubt many do), many Sms are assuming they know moms motives for saying to to the nonparents involvement.  Why is it seen as such a horrid thing for moms to decide that SMs can't be involved in certain areas of their kids lives, despite what a SM or child thinks is best in those certain situations?

by on Apr. 26, 2012 at 5:49 PM
Replies (101-109):
OregonMom80
by on Apr. 30, 2012 at 8:11 PM

*sigh* Again, you didn't answer my question regarding whether EOWE would be ok with you if there is a change in custody for some reason?  Are you ok with seeing your child that little and do you still feel it would be in their best interest?  Just curious.

I'm hardly frustrated by your refusal to agree nor am I going to argue about your perception of this conversation.  You agreed with a poster.  I disagreed with both of you.  If this was your opinion about your own child, I wouldn't have said anything at all as presumably you know your own child best.  When somebody posts an opinion they state is best for MOST people (or in general) that is uninformed or misinformed, I assume they are ignorant by circumstance and not by choice, so if I know differently then I share the information.  I myself had very little knowledge, other than personal, on this topic until recently.  I assume there may be others on here who are interested in what current research is showing regarding what leads to the best outcomes for most children and I did follow-up to clarify on points where it seemed I had not been clear originally.  Now that you've made it clear that you aren't interested in data, that you ARE somebody who chooses to be willfully ignorant by believing that personal opinion or experience (ie. a case study which is the most unreliable data source) is superior to unbiased data based on a large population (ie. one of the most reliable sources for drawing conclusions) and that personal opinion can be applied to the population in general, well, I'm hardly going to take that personally.  Your personal opinion fortunately cannot impact me directly and so it is irrelevant to me.

I'm just glad that the courts/legislatures in most states are basing their changes to presumed custody and parenting time on large scale empirical evidence and not people's personal opinions and feelings. 

Quoting thatislife:

Hmmm, below in red is my original post posted in response to someone else mentioning they are for the eowe schedule.  I'm not sure how those COUPLE SENTENCES translate into an all out war to get everyone to believe my way is best.  It clearly states this is my opinion in response to someone else having the same opinion.  It was followed by paragraph after paragraph ad nauseum of you trying to hone in on that simple little exchange and convince me my personal opinion is wrong which resulted only in you impressing yourself and becoming frustrated that I won't think your way.  Studies you have read mean NOTHING to me (though they do seem to support my pov coincidentally!).  I am sure if I cared to (I don't) I could find studies to support my pov or quite honestly you can find a study to support just about anything!  I guess you are going to have to learn how to deal now that two people had a simple little exchange (me and the other poster I responded to) about schedules and all your wordy posts couldn't accomplish what appears to be YOUR mission to convince everyone how smart and right you are! 

"I  hold the unpopular opinion as well that a child is better with one primary home and visiting the other.  While I'm sure there would be individual situations that would make me believe otherwise in general, I think that is better then them never really feeling like they have one main place to hang their hat."

thatislife
by on Apr. 30, 2012 at 8:20 PM

I agree with you. You have made me see the error of my ways.  You are so smart and wise with your 'studies I read once that are the latest and greatest research' that you can't even site that I have done an about face on my opinion. The summaries you have posted so far of the 'latest research' strengthened my previous views.  I'm sure there have been floods of people who have read your extended monologues and they will be posting in droves later about how awesome you are, they just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Why do I have a sneaking suspicion most of your irl discussions probably end this way to.  They just say 'um, yep, guess that's right' and go talk to someone more interesting.  And for the record, yes I would be fine with the better parent getting the primary custody if that was what the 'some reason' was and the other one visitation.  Yet, now that you have won me over I think the kid should spend every other day with a different parent and guess where he is waking up when he first stirs in the morning.  That sounds like a lovely way to spend a childhood.

Quoting OregonMom80:

*sigh* Again, you didn't answer my question regarding whether EOWE would be ok with you if there is a change in custody for some reason?  Are you ok with seeing your child that little and do you still feel it would be in their best interest?  Just curious.

I'm hardly frustrated by your refusal to agree nor am I going to argue about your perception of this conversation.  You agreed with a poster.  I disagreed with both of you.  If this was your opinion about your own child, I wouldn't have said anything at all as presumably you know your own child best.  When somebody posts an opinion they state is best for MOST people (or in general) that is uninformed or misinformed, I assume they are ignorant by circumstance and not by choice, so if I know differently then I share the information.  I myself had very little knowledge, other than personal, on this topic until recently.  I assume there may be others on here who are interested in what current research is showing regarding what leads to the best outcomes for most children and I did follow-up to clarify on points where it seemed I had not been clear originally.  Now that you've made it clear that you aren't interested in data, that you ARE somebody who chooses to be willfully ignorant by believing that personal opinion or experience (ie. a case study which is the most unreliable data source) is superior to unbiased data based on a large population (ie. one of the most reliable sources for drawing conclusions) and that personal opinion can be applied to the population in general, well, I'm hardly going to take that personally.  Your personal opinion fortunately cannot impact me directly and so it is irrelevant to me.

I'm just glad that the courts/legislatures in most states are basing their changes to presumed custody and parenting time on large scale empirical evidence and not people's personal opinions and feelings. 

Quoting thatislife:

Hmmm, below in red is my original post posted in response to someone else mentioning they are for the eowe schedule.  I'm not sure how those COUPLE SENTENCES translate into an all out war to get everyone to believe my way is best.  It clearly states this is my opinion in response to someone else having the same opinion.  It was followed by paragraph after paragraph ad nauseum of you trying to hone in on that simple little exchange and convince me my personal opinion is wrong which resulted only in you impressing yourself and becoming frustrated that I won't think your way.  Studies you have read mean NOTHING to me (though they do seem to support my pov coincidentally!).  I am sure if I cared to (I don't) I could find studies to support my pov or quite honestly you can find a study to support just about anything!  I guess you are going to have to learn how to deal now that two people had a simple little exchange (me and the other poster I responded to) about schedules and all your wordy posts couldn't accomplish what appears to be YOUR mission to convince everyone how smart and right you are! 

"I  hold the unpopular opinion as well that a child is better with one primary home and visiting the other.  While I'm sure there would be individual situations that would make me believe otherwise in general, I think that is better then them never really feeling like they have one main place to hang their hat."

Quoting OregonMom80:

Again, no problem with how you raise your own kid or what you feel is right for them - more power to you.  If you're going to say that something is best for all children, I'd be curious to know the source of YOUR position.  At least I have support for what I've said outside of "that's my opinion/how I feel."  I'll see if I can find the studies again to post the link.  I've yet to see you provide any evidence whatsoever for your opinion though other than taking small parts of what I posted and using just parts of the overall findings to support your position.  As previously stated (probably in something you didn't read), the overall findings do not support your position & EOWE w/ one week day means the parent goes a week, 7 days, without seeing the child - how you interpreted that into the NCP seeing the child every 4 days, the best recommended schedule, I fail to understand.  Do you have an unbiased source for your position or are you saying your personal opinion, unsupported by any outside unbiased information source, should be applied to everyone's children?  If you do have such an information source, I'd be interested in seeing it.  Obviously we don't want to do anything that would be harmful for DSS.

Quoting thatislife:

Quoting OregonMom80:


I'm only going to read the first paragraph or two of your responses as I'm really not interested in reading a mini novel every time you write something. I will let other people gain the benefit from your great wisdom with a longer passages if they so choose. Regarding your studies I gave you the opportunity to provide a link to them. However your summary of the studies as I said previously further reinforced my point of view-namely that in many cases kids do benefit from having a home-base residence and spending time with the other parent. As I said previously in cases where the parents are very much in sync with their rules their communication and how they get along there may be exceptions. However in many cases these factors do not exist.

 

 

 

 

OregonMom80
by on May. 1, 2012 at 2:55 PM

*sigh* You're clearly set on taking everything I say negatively and to attack my character and what kind of person I am because I don't agree with you and I choose to believe that using data is a good way to support a position if I'm going to say my opinion should apply to others.  I have never once attacked your character or asked you to agree with me, I simply wanted to know on what you were basing your opinion and stated that I feel having an opinion based on feelings alone is choosing to stay willfully uninformed (which is what ignorant means).

FWIW, I am very well-regarded IRL, have many friends, and a very close relationship with my entire family and DH's entire family.  You're also the only person on CM who has taken such a negative view of something I posted.  I think it's high time this conversation ended because it clearly isn't a discussion of different viewpoints, but has turned into a personal attack.  As mentioned, I agree with a lot of what you post or, if I don't agree, still see the insight in it.  I'm not sure why my disagreement with you on this topic became a reason for such ridicule and scorn.  If anything further is posted, I won't bother replying.  I apologize that I seem to have so highly offended you because I don't agree with what you think is right.

Quoting thatislife:

I agree with you. You have made me see the error of my ways.  You are so smart and wise with your 'studies I read once that are the latest and greatest research' that you can't even site that I have done an about face on my opinion. The summaries you have posted so far of the 'latest research' strengthened my previous views.  I'm sure there have been floods of people who have read your extended monologues and they will be posting in droves later about how awesome you are, they just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Why do I have a sneaking suspicion most of your irl discussions probably end this way to.  They just say 'um, yep, guess that's right' and go talk to someone more interesting.  And for the record, yes I would be fine with the better parent getting the primary custody if that was what the 'some reason' was and the other one visitation.  Yet, now that you have won me over I think the kid should spend every other day with a different parent and guess where he is waking up when he first stirs in the morning.  That sounds like a lovely way to spend a childhood.

Quoting OregonMom80:

*sigh* Again, you didn't answer my question regarding whether EOWE would be ok with you if there is a change in custody for some reason?  Are you ok with seeing your child that little and do you still feel it would be in their best interest?  Just curious.

I'm hardly frustrated by your refusal to agree nor am I going to argue about your perception of this conversation.  You agreed with a poster.  I disagreed with both of you.  If this was your opinion about your own child, I wouldn't have said anything at all as presumably you know your own child best.  When somebody posts an opinion they state is best for MOST people (or in general) that is uninformed or misinformed, I assume they are ignorant by circumstance and not by choice, so if I know differently then I share the information.  I myself had very little knowledge, other than personal, on this topic until recently.  I assume there may be others on here who are interested in what current research is showing regarding what leads to the best outcomes for most children and I did follow-up to clarify on points where it seemed I had not been clear originally.  Now that you've made it clear that you aren't interested in data, that you ARE somebody who chooses to be willfully ignorant by believing that personal opinion or experience (ie. a case study which is the most unreliable data source) is superior to unbiased data based on a large population (ie. one of the most reliable sources for drawing conclusions) and that personal opinion can be applied to the population in general, well, I'm hardly going to take that personally.  Your personal opinion fortunately cannot impact me directly and so it is irrelevant to me.

I'm just glad that the courts/legislatures in most states are basing their changes to presumed custody and parenting time on large scale empirical evidence and not people's personal opinions and feelings. 

Quoting thatislife:

Hmmm, below in red is my original post posted in response to someone else mentioning they are for the eowe schedule.  I'm not sure how those COUPLE SENTENCES translate into an all out war to get everyone to believe my way is best.  It clearly states this is my opinion in response to someone else having the same opinion.  It was followed by paragraph after paragraph ad nauseum of you trying to hone in on that simple little exchange and convince me my personal opinion is wrong which resulted only in you impressing yourself and becoming frustrated that I won't think your way.  Studies you have read mean NOTHING to me (though they do seem to support my pov coincidentally!).  I am sure if I cared to (I don't) I could find studies to support my pov or quite honestly you can find a study to support just about anything!  I guess you are going to have to learn how to deal now that two people had a simple little exchange (me and the other poster I responded to) about schedules and all your wordy posts couldn't accomplish what appears to be YOUR mission to convince everyone how smart and right you are! 

"I  hold the unpopular opinion as well that a child is better with one primary home and visiting the other.  While I'm sure there would be individual situations that would make me believe otherwise in general, I think that is better then them never really feeling like they have one main place to hang their hat."

Quoting OregonMom80:

Again, no problem with how you raise your own kid or what you feel is right for them - more power to you.  If you're going to say that something is best for all children, I'd be curious to know the source of YOUR position.  At least I have support for what I've said outside of "that's my opinion/how I feel."  I'll see if I can find the studies again to post the link.  I've yet to see you provide any evidence whatsoever for your opinion though other than taking small parts of what I posted and using just parts of the overall findings to support your position.  As previously stated (probably in something you didn't read), the overall findings do not support your position & EOWE w/ one week day means the parent goes a week, 7 days, without seeing the child - how you interpreted that into the NCP seeing the child every 4 days, the best recommended schedule, I fail to understand.  Do you have an unbiased source for your position or are you saying your personal opinion, unsupported by any outside unbiased information source, should be applied to everyone's children?  If you do have such an information source, I'd be interested in seeing it.  Obviously we don't want to do anything that would be harmful for DSS.

Quoting thatislife:

Quoting OregonMom80:


I'm only going to read the first paragraph or two of your responses as I'm really not interested in reading a mini novel every time you write something. I will let other people gain the benefit from your great wisdom with a longer passages if they so choose. Regarding your studies I gave you the opportunity to provide a link to them. However your summary of the studies as I said previously further reinforced my point of view-namely that in many cases kids do benefit from having a home-base residence and spending time with the other parent. As I said previously in cases where the parents are very much in sync with their rules their communication and how they get along there may be exceptions. However in many cases these factors do not exist.

 

 

 

 


prugress
by on May. 2, 2012 at 2:48 PM

I am sorry you had a bad experience regarding these issues while growing up. The statistics reflecting kids fr divorce, are not because they were raised primarily by moms, but simply because they were kids fr divorce! Divorce is a horrible train wreck for children, with no painless solutions. The new direction of court ordered custody with abusers, molesters, felons, and yes, long periods of time alone with "step" moms so dads child support can be reduced or gone, or other selfish reasons is already showing fatal results in many cases, and very sad ones in other cases. Of course there are cases of loser birthmoms as well, but statisticly men are more capable of violence than woman. I am married to the kindest man I have ever known, and I can still see that his son needs and wants his birthmom, and no not just every other week or so. I believe dads and step moms who try to claim otherwise are lying to themselves or others.

yesmaam
by Silver Member on May. 2, 2012 at 3:02 PM

 I think many SM/BM relationships are tit for tat. BM does this to piss me off, so I'll do this to get her back. Deny it all you want, I've been there, I did it, I know the game. Small example. The first summer DH got to have his summer visit w/SS we got family pics done, and I purposly positioned SS so he was closest to me and I most definitely sent the family pic home back to BMs with him. My only inent was to piss BM off, I didn't care where anyone stood.

And guess what the result was? Not sure specifically, but she retaliated ten fold over the next years. Not to say that's what started all the drama, but sure as hell kept it going.

thatislife
by on May. 2, 2012 at 3:18 PM
1 mom liked this
Quoting prugress:

I am sorry you had a bad experience regarding these issues while growing up. The statistics reflecting kids fr divorce, are not because they were raised primarily by moms, but simply because they were kids fr divorce! Divorce is a horrible train wreck for children, with no painless solutions. The new direction of court ordered custody with abusers, molesters, felons, and yes, long periods of time alone with "step" moms so dads child support can be eliminated or gone, or other selfish reasons is already showing fatal results in many cases, and very sad ones in other cases. Of course there are cases of loser birthmoms as well, but statisticly men are more capable of violence than woman. I am married to the kindest man I have ever known, and I can still see that his son needs and wants his birthmom, and no not just every other week or so. I believe dads and step moms who try to claim otherwise are lying to themselves or others.



You r so right. It really floored me when I heard in court "we know there are some real problems but he hasn't hurt them yet so we have to give him something"

prugress
by on May. 2, 2012 at 3:25 PM
Ya, my judge advised him to stop being a drug addict, now that he will have joint custody of little girls. Thanks, judge moron.
prugress
by on May. 2, 2012 at 3:41 PM

I agree 100 % tit for tat, which is exactly why I say joint custody is totally disfunctional.

prugress
by on May. 2, 2012 at 4:08 PM

The sole purpose of the new legislature is to reduce government aid by forcing kids on dads who generelly earn more than moms. We will not be able to study the impact for several years. Just off hand, Josh Powell comes to mind. 

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