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Why Does Common Sense Need to Be Court Ordered?

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Pretend that both parents are involved and there is joint custody in some form (not necessarily 50/50, but joint legal and both have some custody of some sort).

Why do common sense things, as according to internet boards, need to be CO'd?  Kid is in the ER... don't ned to inform the OP unless it in the order.  Really?  You need a CO to tell you that both parents should be aware that their child is in the ER?

ROFR.. why does it need to be ordered that parents should get time with their kid over a nonparent when a parent is available and wants to spend time with their child?  

Phone Contact -a parent needs a CO to allow them to talk to their children when, if the parents were together, the parents would be talking to their kid everyday?

Physical discipline, not calling nonparents by parental titles, haircuts, showing up to parental things (conferences for one), medical appointments... there have been parents who have successfuly gotten things like this (and other similar things) because one parent (and maybe their spouse) think it doesn't matter what the only other parent things where their own kids are concerned... 

Why not just use common sense and stop acting like a court order is the answer to everything?

On the flip side, so what if the CO doesn't prohibit certain things from being done by the nonparent, the order doesn't say you can either so why act as if the CO not mentioning you means you can do what you like?  (This includes the parents who assume the absence of the SP in the CO means they are free to do certain things that they know can cause problems)

"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." - Theodore Roosevelt
by on Dec. 27, 2012 at 5:54 PM
Replies (21-30):
packermomof2
by on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:01 PM


Quoting jessiesluv:

Then I think you have answered your own question. Not to mention, don't you have something about sm too in one of them?

I have nothing about SM in any of them.  
I only have the order because he wanted me not to have the kids. Otherwise there would be no order.  I was fine without one minus the divorce decree that only stated where the kids live primarily (with me).  The first order mentioned very little about finances (the parents will agree on things and split the things they agree on 50/50, nothing really listed), visitation... the latest order (from 6 years ago) is more detailed but not completely.  I would have no problem with him acting like an adult and just working on things (at least in the beginning... which I proved by not even going after CS or a visitiation schedule and just worked it out with him that he got the kids on his days off, per his request)... had he not been dependent on his parents there would be no order.
packermomof2
by on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:04 PM


Quoting Steamedpuddle30:

Did you guys live in the same town? That ROFR would upset me if I wasn't told they would be at their grandparents and dad is gone. It depends,if grandparents were decent,I wouldn't care. But in your case I'd want ROFR.

Do the kids grandparents(dads)see them anymore now that dad doesn't?


I have no problem with his mother, honestly... she cares about the kids.  It was about the fact that I had no idea my kids weren't with him, he wasn't answering his phone, he never told me he was gone...I only found out when his youngest sister told me when we ran into each other in public and she wasn't with her parents so she could tell me... 
We live in the same town - five minutes apart (ex and I). 7 minutes if you count the stoplight.
His parents moved out of state soon after he lost his bid for custody.  
jessiesluv
by on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:05 PM
I thought you had something that prevented them being around sm?
I can't remember.. any who, things have to be done to protect all parties, specifically the children.


Quoting packermomof2:



Quoting jessiesluv:

Then I think you have answered your own question. Not to mention, don't you have something about sm too in one of them?



I have nothing about SM in any of them.  
I only have the order because he wanted me not to have the kids. Otherwise there would be no order.  I was fine without one minus the divorce decree that only stated where the kids live primarily (with me).  The first order mentioned very little about finances (the parents will agree on things and split the things they agree on 50/50, nothing really listed), visitation... the latest order (from 6 years ago) is more detailed but not completely.  I would have no problem with him acting like an adult and just working on things (at least in the beginning... which I proved by not even going after CS or a visitiation schedule and just worked it out with him that he got the kids on his days off, per his request)... had he not been dependent on his parents there would be no order.
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packermomof2
by on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:11 PM


Quoting Sunivondea:

Things like that need to be court ordered in high conflict cases. When one parent purposely leaves the other parent in the dark. Tries to keep the child from the other parent. Or is simply mean and bitter towards the other parents.
It isn't common courtesy to let the parents be the parents and not the new girl or boy be put in situations that one parent isn't okay with.  For example, the other post about the ER... dad decided not to take his kid in but also decided that mom didn't get the opporunity to take care of their kid and had his fiancee do it.
Or when a parent leaves their kid with a SP and that SP and parent feel it is the parents time so screw the OP spending time with their children -that isn't common courtesy, that is realizing your new love isn't a replacement in any form or fashion... 
After a few years you have to get over being jackasses to each other.
I'm also talking about things where women on this board ask if "it" (being whatever you want it to be) is CO'd and if it isn't it's fine... not everything gets CO'd because not everything is thought of at the time of working out custody issues.  So if it isn't ordered that the SP can't go to PT conferences when the kid is 2 doesn't mean that the SP should go when the come into the kids life at 8 years old...
"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." - Theodore Roosevelt
momof2ex1
by Ruby Member on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:12 PM
I honestly think that it gets put in a CO to protect one or both parents from the other doing what so many parents have done before them. I have every single item you listed in my CO. Why? Because I am on the receiving end of parental alienation attempts. My relationship with my child and my right to be informed regarding my child must be protected from people that cannot accept that I am the mother of said child. Why do they act this way? I do not know. I've been told by a couple of therapists that it stems from hurt and anger that was never settled during the divorce. I've been told that it gives the other parent a feeling of control over a situation they do not generally hold control over. Meaning, I am CP and since I take my child to the dr on normal occasions, dad is often not involved by his own choice, the off chance that he gets to take her to an emergency appointment, he feels he is now holding the cards. Enrollment in an EC that I have no knowledge of on Dad's time and I have no information so I can participate or watch from the sidelines; because on a normal basis I am involved in ECs at my home. He is more than welcome to Join but does not by his own choice. He enrolls her on his time and withholds the information because it is the one time he feels he gets to be on the sidelines alone watching her. I think that my ex often feels he has no control because he is NCP which is absolutely not true. I offer him joint reigns on multiple occasions and offer ROFR even when not legally required. So he does things and intentionally leaves me out or doesn't share info with me because it gives him a sense of control that he feels he doesn't have on other days when DD is with me.

I agree with you. I offer make up time, I offer to drive to him, I offer extra time, I share school pictures, I don't even have to have the hard copy of a report card. It's just a report card, I'll take a copy and gladly let him have the hard copy. But it's not in the CO so he refuses all attempts by me to 'share' our child with him equally. And I won't give up. He can keep saying no but I won't stop bc it's the right thing to do.
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momof2ex1
by Ruby Member on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:16 PM
I want to make a correction here and please do not take offense. You say blended family situation. This has nothing to do with blended families. This has to do with break up or divorce and co-parenting. The problem often lies when people mesh the two together and it really should not be. Blending has nothing to do with two people co-parenting their mutual child.


Quoting rebeccasmly:

In the situation you describe, I absolutely agree. In an ideal blended family situation, both BPs would handle things like mature adults and look for the child's best interest and not have a judge tell them what is best.  Unfortunately in many cases one or both of the parents do not place the child first.


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packermomof2
by on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:17 PM


Quoting jessiesluv:

I thought you had something that prevented them being around sm?
I can't remember.. any who, things have to be done to protect all parties, specifically the children.


My kids weren't protected because we had an order at all.  There were (and are) multiple contempt chargest that could be brought against him. When I did call a lawyer about a few of the areas of contempt I was told that unless I was recording the badmouthing that was going on I couldn't do anything about it (even though my, at the time very young children were coming home saying things that no child at their ages would just come up with), unless I had proof that he wasn't letting me talk to the kids on the phone during his time (as was ordered) nothing could be done... the only things I could legally enforce was me being primary home and anything monetary if I decided to push it.  
Same as most people.  The order protects very little except those things for most people.
My kids and their father worked it out that there would be no SM around them.  It was the only way they agreed to see him -said they wanted to spend time with him but she and her kids were too scary and it was hard to be around them because of the threats and insults and the badmouthing and the violence.. i would have gotten a restraining order had I needed one, but he respected their wishes on that.
"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." - Theodore Roosevelt
momof2ex1
by Ruby Member on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:19 PM
1 mom liked this
Very true. Our judge told us once that she has about 50 high conflict cases in her very long career and we were in the top 10. Lol so our decree has very detailed and had a lot of 'common sense' details in it that most people don't need. But sometimes people need to be protected from the other person.


Quoting pdxmum:

Cmmomsense is often in short supply during a divorce.  I have a two page addendum in my divorce decree setting out rules of common courtesy and decent behavior.  It was ludicrous and if it wasn't so desperately needed, it would be laughable.

we worked through it though. It took a few years, but I probably haven't had to go to the addendum for 4 years, at least.  I think these frameworks are necessary in high conflict divorces, but you hope they become irrelevant as the emotions die down.

commom courtesies such as a call when a child goes to ER, or recognizing that parental time is more important than SP time, or allowing phone calls should just be a given.  But c'mon packer, read these forums for an hour and you can see how critical it is that they are mandated...


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leegirl_jm
by Ruby Member on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:20 PM

I think most detailed COs come about because of reasons like yours, most COs I know are very basic. DH's CO is a small paragraph, I doubt there are 3 sentences.

Quoting momof2ex1:

...... I have every single item you listed in my CO. Why? Because I am on the receiving end of parental alienation attempts.

Wife, Mother and Career Woman living in Jamaica

theshanster17
by Bronze Member on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:23 PM

Because parents have a different opinion on what is "common sense". BM felt that DH should only be speaking to SS once a week, if lucky. A lot of times, it was maybe a week and a half, or two. In our household if we followed that rule, BM would raise hell.

Sometimes a guideline is needed, since some parents can't decide that together.

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