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Why Does Common Sense Need to Be Court Ordered?

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Pretend that both parents are involved and there is joint custody in some form (not necessarily 50/50, but joint legal and both have some custody of some sort).

Why do common sense things, as according to internet boards, need to be CO'd?  Kid is in the ER... don't ned to inform the OP unless it in the order.  Really?  You need a CO to tell you that both parents should be aware that their child is in the ER?

ROFR.. why does it need to be ordered that parents should get time with their kid over a nonparent when a parent is available and wants to spend time with their child?  

Phone Contact -a parent needs a CO to allow them to talk to their children when, if the parents were together, the parents would be talking to their kid everyday?

Physical discipline, not calling nonparents by parental titles, haircuts, showing up to parental things (conferences for one), medical appointments... there have been parents who have successfuly gotten things like this (and other similar things) because one parent (and maybe their spouse) think it doesn't matter what the only other parent things where their own kids are concerned... 

Why not just use common sense and stop acting like a court order is the answer to everything?

On the flip side, so what if the CO doesn't prohibit certain things from being done by the nonparent, the order doesn't say you can either so why act as if the CO not mentioning you means you can do what you like?  (This includes the parents who assume the absence of the SP in the CO means they are free to do certain things that they know can cause problems)

"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." - Theodore Roosevelt
by on Dec. 27, 2012 at 5:54 PM
Replies (31-40):
momof2ex1
by Ruby Member on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:24 PM
That's funny that you used that as an example about the school. That is the one area that is not listed in my CO. BUT common sense told me that I would need to notify my ex that we moved and that dd was in a new school (or that we were planning to move since I notified him before the move took place) because he would need to know where to pick her up since he picks up at school. I could see how some CPs would just not inform the NCP if it wasn't ordered to do so. They'd just say, eh they can find out later. The order is for protection. In my opinion. And common sense rules are because SOMEONE somewhere has already done it. Kwim?

It's like the warning on a McDonalds coffee cup. Contents is HOT!! Why? Duh you just ordered a freaking coffee!! Of course it's hot! But people have proved that there needed to be a notice to protect them from getting burned and to protect McDonalds from being sued.

Quoting newwife1:

Lots of people are morons and lack common sense, even when stuff IS in the CO they think they are above the rules and don't follow it anyway.

One would think BM would notify DH that she switched (or that she even wanted to switch) SS's school, not once but THREE times in one school year, but she didn't. Then demanded he pay half of the tuition when DH had no idea she had even taken him out of public school.

So who knows? People do stupid things all the time and don't think of others.




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rebeccasmly
by on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:26 PM

Very true. I'm just use to addressing blended families in this group since most here are SPs or deal with one. You make a great point though, it could just be the 2 BPs with no one else involved. Thanks for pointing that out. :-)

Quoting momof2ex1:

I want to make a correction here and please do not take offense. You say blended family situation. This has nothing to do with blended families. This has to do with break up or divorce and co-parenting. The problem often lies when people mesh the two together and it really should not be. Blending has nothing to do with two people co-parenting their mutual child.


Quoting rebeccasmly:

In the situation you describe, I absolutely agree. In an ideal blended family situation, both BPs would handle things like mature adults and look for the child's best interest and not have a judge tell them what is best.  Unfortunately in many cases one or both of the parents do not place the child first.



kary1124
by on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:32 PM
i agree 100% i wish my bfs ex would use some but it really seems like she doesnt know how to...
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momof2ex1
by Ruby Member on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:36 PM
I think when someone posts something like that, they want to hear that it's ok to be a jackass and exclude the other parent. Well of course!! Because its not in the CO you can be a jackass and there is nothing they can do to you! When common sense would say, no that isn't right, I'm not even going to think that it's ok to not inform mom/dad of an ER visit until after the fact because if it were me, I would want to know where my kid is. Often people don't treat the other parent how they would want to be treated. I always think of how I want to be treated and that is exactly how I treat my ex. That is a kindergarten rule. But for some adults it's a hard concept to grasp. I also don't cuss at my ex or use foul language or name call. He does it to me and so does his wife. I can't tell you how many times I've been called a fat ass in an email from them. I hope my kindness will rub off on them. Eventually.


Quoting packermomof2:



Quoting Sunivondea:

Things like that need to be court ordered in high conflict cases. When one parent purposely leaves the other parent in the dark. Tries to keep the child from the other parent. Or is simply mean and bitter towards the other parents.
It isn't common courtesy to let the parents be the parents and not the new girl or boy be put in situations that one parent isn't okay with.  For example, the other post about the ER... dad decided not to take his kid in but also decided that mom didn't get the opporunity to take care of their kid and had his fiancee do it.
Or when a parent leaves their kid with a SP and that SP and parent feel it is the parents time so screw the OP spending time with their children -that isn't common courtesy, that is realizing your new love isn't a replacement in any form or fashion... 
After a few years you have to get over being jackasses to each other.
I'm also talking about things where women on this board ask if "it" (being whatever you want it to be) is CO'd and if it isn't it's fine... not everything gets CO'd because not everything is thought of at the time of working out custody issues.  So if it isn't ordered that the SP can't go to PT conferences when the kid is 2 doesn't mean that the SP should go when the come into the kids life at 8 years old...

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momof2ex1
by Ruby Member on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:37 PM
Thanks for not being offended. Heehee I didn't want it to come off that way!!


Quoting rebeccasmly:

Very true. I'm just use to addressing blended families in this group since most here are SPs or deal with one. You make a great point though, it could just be the 2 BPs with no one else involved. Thanks for pointing that out. :-)

Quoting momof2ex1:

I want to make a correction here and please do not take offense. You say blended family situation. This has nothing to do with blended families. This has to do with break up or divorce and co-parenting. The problem often lies when people mesh the two together and it really should not be. Blending has nothing to do with two people co-parenting their mutual child.





Quoting rebeccasmly:

In the situation you describe, I absolutely agree. In an ideal blended family situation, both BPs would handle things like mature adults and look for the child's best interest and not have a judge tell them what is best.  Unfortunately in many cases one or both of the parents do not place the child first.





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Sunivondea
by on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:40 PM
I think it's still the same. Sometimes there have to be specific things in the court order because when people split up they no longer know how to treat the other like they are still the parent to their child. Whether it be because they have a new love interest they feel is better suited for the job, or they just no longer trust the other parents judgement.

If we could all act civil and co-parent in a fair manner that is always in the best interest of the children, we could do away with court orders all together.

In a perfect world.


Quoting packermomof2:



Quoting Sunivondea:

Things like that need to be court ordered in high conflict cases. When one parent purposely leaves the other parent in the dark. Tries to keep the child from the other parent. Or is simply mean and bitter towards the other parents.
It isn't common courtesy to let the parents be the parents and not the new girl or boy be put in situations that one parent isn't okay with.  For example, the other post about the ER... dad decided not to take his kid in but also decided that mom didn't get the opporunity to take care of their kid and had his fiancee do it.
Or when a parent leaves their kid with a SP and that SP and parent feel it is the parents time so screw the OP spending time with their children -that isn't common courtesy, that is realizing your new love isn't a replacement in any form or fashion... 
After a few years you have to get over being jackasses to each other.
I'm also talking about things where women on this board ask if "it" (being whatever you want it to be) is CO'd and if it isn't it's fine... not everything gets CO'd because not everything is thought of at the time of working out custody issues.  So if it isn't ordered that the SP can't go to PT conferences when the kid is 2 doesn't mean that the SP should go when the come into the kids life at 8 years old...
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Troubleswife
by on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:49 PM

 because everyone is different.

Quoting packermomof2:

Pretend that both parents are involved and there is joint custody in some form (not necessarily 50/50, but joint legal and both have some custody of some sort).

Why do common sense things, as according to internet boards, need to be CO'd?  Kid is in the ER... don't ned to inform the OP unless it in the order.  Really?  You need a CO to tell you that both parents should be aware that their child is in the ER?

It is common sense to me that I don't need to be informed prior to going in by my X that my kid is in the ER unless it is significant. I do not find an ear infection to be significant or a concern for strep throat or excessive throwing up/diarreah and dehydration (which are the common reasons people end up in the ER). These are run of the mill types of issues that are important but not really emergent or serious.

Heck, my son had pneumonia and I wouldn't have thrown a fit had I been notified after the appointment what was up. I really was kinda surprised that is what he had but I knew someone should check him out. It wasn't like him  to act this way so I took him in.  I didn't think twice about calling my X. There was nothing his Dad could do to make it different. I told his dad when I told him but 1) he doesn't get sick 2) he'd never had pneumonia 3) he needed to know because he had to be kept quiet and was on antibiotics. I guess, it's just how we work.

Where the child is taken is really not relevant to me either, rather, it'sthe situation.  If my child is sick enough for an ambulance to be called or has a broken bone then, yes, common sense say to call the parent immediately. DUH.  

ROFR.. why does it need to be ordered that parents should get time with their kid over a nonparent when a parent is available and wants to spend time with their child?  

I think it's also be shown to me that the child spending time in the other parents home and with their family is pretty important. It changes the comfort level for the child. It includes them in things with their fathers family even if the other parent isn't present the entire time. My stepson has a great relationship with my family because he has spent quite a bit of time with them. He is closer to them than he is his biological extended family. It is what it is.

Phone Contact -a parent needs a CO to allow them to talk to their children when, if the parents were together, the parents would be talking to their kid everyday?

People get angry and don't want to deal with the other parent and they use the child to retaliate. They also try to replace them with step-parent.

Physical discipline, not calling nonparents by parental titles, haircuts, showing up to parental things (conferences for one), medical appointments... there have been parents who have successfuly gotten things like this (and other similar things) because one parent (and maybe their spouse) think it doesn't matter what the only other parent things where their own kids are concerned... 

My stepsons mom doesn't care. She treats me as a secondary parent. She expects me to be. These are things I'd much rather her step up and do but she would rather I do them on our time. So, every situation is different and needs to be spelled out if it is important to you. It is in absence of the agreement where the CO takes over. You can always talk about what is importamt to you and try to compromise but it seems people don't like to compromise. They'd much rather scream and shout about how right they are.

Why not just use common sense and stop acting like a court order is the answer to everything?

because everyone is different. :)

On the flip side, so what if the CO doesn't prohibit certain things from being done by the nonparent, the order doesn't say you can either so why act as if the CO not mentioning you means you can do what you like?  (This includes the parents who assume the absence of the SP in the CO means they are free to do certain things that they know can cause problems)

We were told by our attorney that a CO that doesn't say one way or the other means that NEITHER parent has authority. 

 

momof2ex1
by Ruby Member on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:50 PM
Lol yes! That's how our divorce decree was. Wasn't detailed enough and had to have it modified.


Quoting leegirl_jm:

I think most detailed COs come about because of reasons like yours, most COs I know are very basic. DH's CO is a small paragraph, I doubt there are 3 sentences.

Quoting momof2ex1:

...... I have every single item you listed in my CO. Why? Because I am on the receiving end of parental alienation attempts.

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ladyk86
by on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:54 PM

bc some parents refuse to leave the kid with the other parent when they want to go out and just lie about going out...so IMO even if ROFR was in paper work..that parent that likes to go out would still lie about going out so whats the use?

Troubleswife
by on Dec. 27, 2012 at 8:57 PM

 

Quoting momof2ex1:

I want to make a correction here and please do not take offense. You say blended family situation. This has nothing to do with blended families. This has to do with break up or divorce and co-parenting. The problem often lies when people mesh the two together and it really should not be. Blending has nothing to do with two people co-parenting their mutual child.

This is a good point. BM blurred the lines all over the place depending on the situation. Things were not consistent so a CO is great to TRY to lay out consistency. I don't think it happens often times. We are still not informed well enough but I think DH has made peace with it, along with a lot of other things.

This issue IS between the parents.

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