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If men are such morons when it comes to ...

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 custody, mom, the kids, CO's, etc, please explain to me why any mom should treat them as an equal parent.

 

by on Jul. 31, 2013 at 3:34 PM
Replies (121-125):
luckystars2012
by Gold Member on Aug. 2, 2013 at 1:51 PM
1 mom liked this

Derp.  Only one party to a case can get legal aid.  They cant represent both parties.  If the state is already involved on BMs side because they are writing her CS and custody order, the state legal aid cant turn around and represent dad.  

Im not upset that fathers who make money are required to pay for things.  Thats ridiculous.  I have a problem with the extreme bias towards mothers in the court/custody system.  The fact that mom can get free help to file for custody/cs, free representation if needed in many states, etc, while dads get told "sign here or get a lawyer".  Your obliviousness to the courts bias towards mothers is astounding.   


You assume that every dad has the money to pay for a lawyer.  Most dads I know who are NCPs can barely support themselves after paying CS and medical and whatever else they have to pay, much less get lawyer.  I know one man who is a GREAT father, he and his wife both worked for the first 5 years they are married.  One day she up and quit and decided she wanted to be a SAHM.  Being a great guy, he supported that and her even though things would be much harder for them financially.  Six months later she filed for divorce and demanded a ridiculous amont of CS AND spousal support, because "she was a SAHM".  And since she had been a sahm for six months, she got awarded the spousal support.  He had no lawyer, he couldnt afford one between paying CS and medical and ECs, and now on top ofthat spousal support.  Come to find out, she PLANNED the whole thing-she was cheating on him, quit her job knowing she could file for divorce and get SS after six months, and basically took him to the cleaners. He has to pay her approximately 60% of his pay between CS for one child and SS, for five years.  He tried to take it back to court with the proof he found of her "plans" and was told basically too bad, so sad, pay up.  

The idea that if a dad doesnt hire a lawyer they dont care enough or want it bad enough is obscene.  Your agenda is way off base, as many women here have attested to.  The courts heavily favor the mother in most states, and theres no true way to deny that.  Yes dads have a better chance of a fair shake if they get a lawyer.  No, they cant always afford it.  Yes, moms have more resources to get legal help, which they often ONLY need if dad finds a way to get a lawyer.   The bias may be SLOWLY changing, but its not changed as much as you think it has.  Your inability to understand that joint custody does not equal 50/50 custody is a little mind boggling, honestly.  A statute that states that the court must record why they give sole custody to one parent at protest of the other does not in any way indicate that the court uses 50/50 as a standard, or that there is not bias towards moms over dads.  


Quoting Momniscient:

Well if your state isn't allowing access to family court resources then they are doing something illegal. I looked at AK's family law site and self help center and it isn't any different than any other states. Can you point me in the direction of something that states that fathers are banned from legalaid if they qualify? Basically you seem upset that fathers who make money are required to pay for things. So are mothers. It's funny how that works isn't it? If it is a cultural norm that the mom is SAHM and the Dad earns the money then yes, the Dad pays. Your problem seems to be with that system not the courts.

I know four women who pay child support as the bigger earners in their divorce. I know two who pay alimony and ALL of them have joint custody of their children. Only one has 60/40 (due to scheduling and school) the rest have 50/50.

I know two fathers who have sole custody of their children and receive support from the mothers and I only know one mom who has full custody of her child and she received no cs judgment. She paid for her lawyer. Her ex had no lawyer.

ALL of this is based on the law and earnings and earning capacity. I am the cp of my daughter only because I was able to prove that my ex husband was unfit for joint custody. He sued me for support and alimony. He almost won on the alimony issue and would have certainly won child support had he been awarded joint custody. I would have been ordered to pay $698.37/month based solely on the states custody equation. He did not pay for a lawyer. I certainly did. I had a very very good case that he should have to pay my lawyers fees but since he did not make the money I do and was utilizing legalaid the judge ruled against me on that. My own personal family law lawyer has 50/50 custody and pays her ex husband child support.

My link was not innacurate. Your understanding is. You are not comprehending what I said, as evidenced by what you just wrote.

That's fine. You obviously are emotional about this. Sorry you are letting it warp your logic.

My agenda is that case law is a blanket phenomenon that isn't geared to being fair or ideal for either party. It's a system that cannot and does not individualize cases and situations and the only real consistency is that the children pay the price. Traditionally mothers have been favored but that is changing, has changed in many states and will continue to change by the precedents set by the Western States.


luckystars2012
by Gold Member on Aug. 2, 2013 at 2:02 PM

1-legal aid here, and in my home state, is a state aid.  And yes they do help with custody cases buut they will only help the party that is named as the petitioner if the state has been in any way involved, such as writing a cS or custody order. 

2.  Yes both parents should have representation, in a perfect world.  However, if mom files, and dad contests, his chances of getting a fair shake are slim unless he can hire a lawyer.  If dad is representing himself, moms need for a lawyer goes way down because it is very hard to successfully and properly represent yourself in such a way as to get past the court bias.  Theres not nearly as many resources as you seem to think there are for dads.  In my state?  theres one, with a year long wait list.  In bms state, last time we checked, there was NONE.  In my home state? HAH!  not a chance.  

3. Why do you think its not important where the child lays its head?  Yes dad can go to ECS and such if he is able to find out where they are, or if he lives in the same area (like with military families who live everywhere).  And thats of course if the child is old enough for school or ECs, if dad is able to get the names of doctors, etc.  How many posts have we seen where BM wouldnt give the name of a doctors office? HOw is dad supposed to find out when appointments are if he cant even get the name?  When we FINALLY got the names of SS doctors (which we had to go to court to get) BM had listed her boyfriend as SS father, of listed everything as "unknown". 

Your DH did have an extra resource.  He had the money to pay for an attorney, and he was blessed to find an attorney that took payments.  Why is it so hard for you to get that thats not always the case?


Quoting newstepmom61811:

 Lucky, I can't have a discussion against erroneous information...go back and do some research...

1.  In the United States, NO civil cases receive GOVERNMENT legal aid, only criminal defendents are guaranteed legal representation by the government...any mother who receives legal aid has approached a private legal aid agency with her case which has agreed to take it...and well, father's can do that too...there are MANY father's rights groups out there doing this very thing...representation CAN be found.

2.  In ANY contested case both parties need representation. To say BM RARELY needs an attorney is bullshit...the only time an attorney is a wasted expense is in an amicable divorce where all things are agreed on and parties can sign and file on their own in full agreement...otherwise too much to hash out...from all aspects of the divorce...separating everything...not just child custody issues...

3.  The ONLY way father's may not be treated as equals is in residential time which in reality boils down to where the kid sleeps at night...but in terms of LEGAL rights to the child in all courts that is not limited unless a parent is proven unfit...so in reality...how is a father so handicapped?  Maybe the kid sleeps at mom's most nights of the week...the kid is sleeping...dad can still go to have lunch with the kid at school on his lunch break and see the kid EVERY day if he wants to...he can show up to practices, games, ECs, appointments...if is about time he can still take as much as he wants...just because mom hs residential custody that IS NOT A RESTRAINING ORDER, that does not mean dad has to stay away from the child those hours when he is in a mutually accessible place...BUT IT TAKES WORK, and I think many NCP just don't want to do it...it is more convenient to whine about how time was taken away and the kids are not being brought to you.

My DH had a lot to lose because BM was truly unfit...he had a fight on his hands he HAD to win so...he MADE it happen...ANY man can do the same...my DH had no special powers or resources except one...an astounding amount of resolve...He did what he HAD to do...kept on until he MADE the attorney thing happen so he increased his odds for an outcome in his favor in court...this is not magic...MANY mothers have done this, many fathers have done this...



newstepmom61811
by on Aug. 2, 2013 at 2:12 PM

 In EVERY state the person that files and has posession of the kids during the filing=ADVANTAGE...the filing party usually gets what they want...that is not a BM advantage...the person contesting always has a fight on their hands...ANYONE facing divorce...FILE FIRST...what state are you in...your information contradicts everything I researched about legal aid. Lets make sure we're talking about the same thing...Legal aid as in an attorney to show up and sit by the party in the court and argue their case for them? That type of legal aid was ONLY listed in criminal cases for EVERY state...and in fact across many countries...I researched internationally...now, in my DHs case the state was involved, representing the minor parties via the CS office, to make sure CS if ordered would be implemented...but as for assisting in representation in with representing either party, no. Are you sure the legal aid wasn't just about the CS? not about the divorce and custody?


Quoting luckystars2012:

1-legal aid here, and in my home state, is a state aid.  And yes they do help with custody cases buut they will only help the party that is named as the petitioner if the state has been in any way involved, such as writing a cS or custody order. 

2.  Yes both parents should have representation, in a perfect world.  However, if mom files, and dad contests, his chances of getting a fair shake are slim unless he can hire a lawyer.  If dad is representing himself, moms need for a lawyer goes way down because it is very hard to successfully and properly represent yourself in such a way as to get past the court bias.  Theres not nearly as many resources as you seem to think there are for dads.  In my state?  theres one, with a year long wait list.  In bms state, last time we checked, there was NONE.  In my home state? HAH!  not a chance.  

3. Why do you think its not important where the child lays its head?  Yes dad can go to ECS and such if he is able to find out where they are, or if he lives in the same area (like with military families who live everywhere).  And thats of course if the child is old enough for school or ECs, if dad is able to get the names of doctors, etc.  How many posts have we seen where BM wouldnt give the name of a doctors office? HOw is dad supposed to find out when appointments are if he cant even get the name?  When we FINALLY got the names of SS doctors (which we had to go to court to get) BM had listed her boyfriend as SS father, of listed everything as "unknown". 

Your DH did have an extra resource.  He had the money to pay for an attorney, and he was blessed to find an attorney that took payments.  Why is it so hard for you to get that thats not always the case?

 

Quoting newstepmom61811:

 Lucky, I can't have a discussion against erroneous information...go back and do some research...

1.  In the United States, NO civil cases receive GOVERNMENT legal aid, only criminal defendents are guaranteed legal representation by the government...any mother who receives legal aid has approached a private legal aid agency with her case which has agreed to take it...and well, father's can do that too...there are MANY father's rights groups out there doing this very thing...representation CAN be found.

2.  In ANY contested case both parties need representation. To say BM RARELY needs an attorney is bullshit...the only time an attorney is a wasted expense is in an amicable divorce where all things are agreed on and parties can sign and file on their own in full agreement...otherwise too much to hash out...from all aspects of the divorce...separating everything...not just child custody issues...

3.  The ONLY way father's may not be treated as equals is in residential time which in reality boils down to where the kid sleeps at night...but in terms of LEGAL rights to the child in all courts that is not limited unless a parent is proven unfit...so in reality...how is a father so handicapped?  Maybe the kid sleeps at mom's most nights of the week...the kid is sleeping...dad can still go to have lunch with the kid at school on his lunch break and see the kid EVERY day if he wants to...he can show up to practices, games, ECs, appointments...if is about time he can still take as much as he wants...just because mom hs residential custody that IS NOT A RESTRAINING ORDER, that does not mean dad has to stay away from the child those hours when he is in a mutually accessible place...BUT IT TAKES WORK, and I think many NCP just don't want to do it...it is more convenient to whine about how time was taken away and the kids are not being brought to you.

My DH had a lot to lose because BM was truly unfit...he had a fight on his hands he HAD to win so...he MADE it happen...ANY man can do the same...my DH had no special powers or resources except one...an astounding amount of resolve...He did what he HAD to do...kept on until he MADE the attorney thing happen so he increased his odds for an outcome in his favor in court...this is not magic...MANY mothers have done this, many fathers have done this...

 



 

Momniscient
by Member on Aug. 2, 2013 at 2:20 PM
Oh dear lord.


Did you attend school at all?
If it makes you feel better. Keep on keeping on sista.


Quoting luckystars2012:

Derp.  Only one party to a case can get legal aid.  They cant represent both parties.  If the state is already involved on BMs side because they are writing her CS and custody order, the state legal aid cant turn around and represent dad.  

Im not upset that fathers who make money are required to pay for things.  Thats ridiculous.  I have a problem with the extreme bias towards mothers in the court/custody system.  The fact that mom can get free help to file for custody/cs, free representation if needed in many states, etc, while dads get told "sign here or get a lawyer".  Your obliviousness to the courts bias towards mothers is astounding.   


You assume that every dad has the money to pay for a lawyer.  Most dads I know who are NCPs can barely support themselves after paying CS and medical and whatever else they have to pay, much less get lawyer.  I know one man who is a GREAT father, he and his wife both worked for the first 5 years they are married.  One day she up and quit and decided she wanted to be a SAHM.  Being a great guy, he supported that and her even though things would be much harder for them financially.  Six months later she filed for divorce and demanded a ridiculous amont of CS AND spousal support, because "she was a SAHM".  And since she had been a sahm for six months, she got awarded the spousal support.  He had no lawyer, he couldnt afford one between paying CS and medical and ECs, and now on top ofthat spousal support.  Come to find out, she PLANNED the whole thing-she was cheating on him, quit her job knowing she could file for divorce and get SS after six months, and basically took him to the cleaners. He has to pay her approximately 60% of his pay between CS for one child and SS, for five years.  He tried to take it back to court with the proof he found of her "plans" and was told basically too bad, so sad, pay up.  

The idea that if a dad doesnt hire a lawyer they dont care enough or want it bad enough is obscene.  Your agenda is way off base, as many women here have attested to.  The courts heavily favor the mother in most states, and theres no true way to deny that.  Yes dads have a better chance of a fair shake if they get a lawyer.  No, they cant always afford it.  Yes, moms have more resources to get legal help, which they often ONLY need if dad finds a way to get a lawyer.   The bias may be SLOWLY changing, but its not changed as much as you think it has.  Your inability to understand that joint custody does not equal 50/50 custody is a little mind boggling, honestly.  A statute that states that the court must record why they give sole custody to one parent at protest of the other does not in any way indicate that the court uses 50/50 as a standard, or that there is not bias towards moms over dads.  



Quoting Momniscient:

Well if your state isn't allowing access to family court resources then they are doing something illegal. I looked at AK's family law site and self help center and it isn't any different than any other states. Can you point me in the direction of something that states that fathers are banned from legalaid if they qualify? Basically you seem upset that fathers who make money are required to pay for things. So are mothers. It's funny how that works isn't it? If it is a cultural norm that the mom is SAHM and the Dad earns the money then yes, the Dad pays. Your problem seems to be with that system not the courts.

I know four women who pay child support as the bigger earners in their divorce. I know two who pay alimony and ALL of them have joint custody of their children. Only one has 60/40 (due to scheduling and school) the rest have 50/50.

I know two fathers who have sole custody of their children and receive support from the mothers and I only know one mom who has full custody of her child and she received no cs judgment. She paid for her lawyer. Her ex had no lawyer.

ALL of this is based on the law and earnings and earning capacity. I am the cp of my daughter only because I was able to prove that my ex husband was unfit for joint custody. He sued me for support and alimony. He almost won on the alimony issue and would have certainly won child support had he been awarded joint custody. I would have been ordered to pay $698.37/month based solely on the states custody equation. He did not pay for a lawyer. I certainly did. I had a very very good case that he should have to pay my lawyers fees but since he did not make the money I do and was utilizing legalaid the judge ruled against me on that. My own personal family law lawyer has 50/50 custody and pays her ex husband child support.

My link was not innacurate. Your understanding is. You are not comprehending what I said, as evidenced by what you just wrote.

That's fine. You obviously are emotional about this. Sorry you are letting it warp your logic.

My agenda is that case law is a blanket phenomenon that isn't geared to being fair or ideal for either party. It's a system that cannot and does not individualize cases and situations and the only real consistency is that the children pay the price. Traditionally mothers have been favored but that is changing, has changed in many states and will continue to change by the precedents set by the Western States.


luckystars2012
by Gold Member on Aug. 3, 2013 at 5:19 PM
That's cute. Copouts are boring.


Quoting Momniscient:

Oh dear lord.





Did you attend school at all?

If it makes you feel better. Keep on keeping on sista.




Quoting luckystars2012:

Derp.  Only one party to a case can get legal aid.  They cant represent both parties.  If the state is already involved on BMs side because they are writing her CS and custody order, the state legal aid cant turn around and represent dad.  

Im not upset that fathers who make money are required to pay for things.  Thats ridiculous.  I have a problem with the extreme bias towards mothers in the court/custody system.  The fact that mom can get free help to file for custody/cs, free representation if needed in many states, etc, while dads get told "sign here or get a lawyer".  Your obliviousness to the courts bias towards mothers is astounding.   


You assume that every dad has the money to pay for a lawyer.  Most dads I know who are NCPs can barely support themselves after paying CS and medical and whatever else they have to pay, much less get lawyer.  I know one man who is a GREAT father, he and his wife both worked for the first 5 years they are married.  One day she up and quit and decided she wanted to be a SAHM.  Being a great guy, he supported that and her even though things would be much harder for them financially.  Six months later she filed for divorce and demanded a ridiculous amont of CS AND spousal support, because "she was a SAHM".  And since she had been a sahm for six months, she got awarded the spousal support.  He had no lawyer, he couldnt afford one between paying CS and medical and ECs, and now on top ofthat spousal support.  Come to find out, she PLANNED the whole thing-she was cheating on him, quit her job knowing she could file for divorce and get SS after six months, and basically took him to the cleaners. He has to pay her approximately 60% of his pay between CS for one child and SS, for five years.  He tried to take it back to court with the proof he found of her "plans" and was told basically too bad, so sad, pay up.  

The idea that if a dad doesnt hire a lawyer they dont care enough or want it bad enough is obscene.  Your agenda is way off base, as many women here have attested to.  The courts heavily favor the mother in most states, and theres no true way to deny that.  Yes dads have a better chance of a fair shake if they get a lawyer.  No, they cant always afford it.  Yes, moms have more resources to get legal help, which they often ONLY need if dad finds a way to get a lawyer.   The bias may be SLOWLY changing, but its not changed as much as you think it has.  Your inability to understand that joint custody does not equal 50/50 custody is a little mind boggling, honestly.  A statute that states that the court must record why they give sole custody to one parent at protest of the other does not in any way indicate that the court uses 50/50 as a standard, or that there is not bias towards moms over dads.  




Quoting Momniscient:

Well if your state isn't allowing access to family court resources then they are doing something illegal. I looked at AK's family law site and self help center and it isn't any different than any other states. Can you point me in the direction of something that states that fathers are banned from legalaid if they qualify? Basically you seem upset that fathers who make money are required to pay for things. So are mothers. It's funny how that works isn't it? If it is a cultural norm that the mom is SAHM and the Dad earns the money then yes, the Dad pays. Your problem seems to be with that system not the courts.

I know four women who pay child support as the bigger earners in their divorce. I know two who pay alimony and ALL of them have joint custody of their children. Only one has 60/40 (due to scheduling and school) the rest have 50/50.

I know two fathers who have sole custody of their children and receive support from the mothers and I only know one mom who has full custody of her child and she received no cs judgment. She paid for her lawyer. Her ex had no lawyer.

ALL of this is based on the law and earnings and earning capacity. I am the cp of my daughter only because I was able to prove that my ex husband was unfit for joint custody. He sued me for support and alimony. He almost won on the alimony issue and would have certainly won child support had he been awarded joint custody. I would have been ordered to pay $698.37/month based solely on the states custody equation. He did not pay for a lawyer. I certainly did. I had a very very good case that he should have to pay my lawyers fees but since he did not make the money I do and was utilizing legalaid the judge ruled against me on that. My own personal family law lawyer has 50/50 custody and pays her ex husband child support.

My link was not innacurate. Your understanding is. You are not comprehending what I said, as evidenced by what you just wrote.

That's fine. You obviously are emotional about this. Sorry you are letting it warp your logic.

My agenda is that case law is a blanket phenomenon that isn't geared to being fair or ideal for either party. It's a system that cannot and does not individualize cases and situations and the only real consistency is that the children pay the price. Traditionally mothers have been favored but that is changing, has changed in many states and will continue to change by the precedents set by the Western States.



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