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If men are such morons when it comes to ...

Posted by   + Show Post

 custody, mom, the kids, CO's, etc, please explain to me why any mom should treat them as an equal parent.

 

by on Jul. 31, 2013 at 3:34 PM
Replies (21-30):
Graceplustwo
by Bronze Member on Jul. 31, 2013 at 4:32 PM
I dont care how much or little spouse does for bf . He is still a equal parent because he helped create that child. Regardless if he struggles with parental responsibilities. Child wouldn't exist if it wasn't for his part .


Quoting packermomof2:

 




Quoting Graceplustwo:

Because you didn't create the kid yourself. He is a equal parent. And maybe ppl should be more selective in who they have children with.



 Oh, so he can be a moron and need a woman to hold his hand in all things child related, but mom needs to treat him as if he is as capable as she is because they had sex?


I'm not devaluing men, I think they hold a lot of value, but I think mom's respect dad's more than some of their second, third, fourth, etc wives do.  I think too many subsequent spouses get it in their head that if a man hasn't done something he can't do it so she pushes for it or does it for him. 


If a man lets a woman do that, no he isn't an equal parent.  If a man handles his business without a woman there, he is.


Graceplustwo
by Bronze Member on Jul. 31, 2013 at 4:35 PM
After re reading your respone. You are basically devaluing bf because his current wife helps with parental responsibilities? So if bm gets remarried and dh helps her with her children , is she then also not a equal parent?


Quoting Graceplustwo:

I dont care how much or little spouse does for bf . He is still a equal parent because he helped create that child. Regardless if he struggles with parental responsibilities. Child wouldn't exist if it wasn't for his part .




Quoting packermomof2:

 






Quoting Graceplustwo:

Because you didn't create the kid yourself. He is a equal parent. And maybe ppl should be more selective in who they have children with.





 Oh, so he can be a moron and need a woman to hold his hand in all things child related, but mom needs to treat him as if he is as capable as she is because they had sex?



I'm not devaluing men, I think they hold a lot of value, but I think mom's respect dad's more than some of their second, third, fourth, etc wives do.  I think too many subsequent spouses get it in their head that if a man hasn't done something he can't do it so she pushes for it or does it for him. 



If a man lets a woman do that, no he isn't an equal parent.  If a man handles his business without a woman there, he is.



Derdriu
by Gold Member on Jul. 31, 2013 at 4:42 PM
2 moms liked this

There's still the widespread belief the courts are pro-BM and dads don't stand a snowball's chance in hell.  While I think courts do operate pro-BM, I think they're a lot more fair toward BDs than they used to be.  One of the radio stations I listen to runs a legal ad directly addressing that bias and father's rights. 

When my DH and BM divorced, her attorney steamrolled him.  He then watched a close friend get completely shut out (no testimony, no witnesses, etc.) while the ex got special attention, had her friends testify, etc.  Not an experience that lends itself to any hope.  However, the woman he dated before he met me was a paralegal for a family law attorney, so she saw that type of nonsense every single day.  And while he looked at the situation as hopeless, she looked at it as he simply had a lazy and incompetent attorney.  She didn't want to be a SM, which is why they broke up, but she did help him get the ball rolling for custody.  The attorney who helped him the second time around (and won) was in complete disbelief that anyone in their right mind had given BM custody with her drug and alcohol abuse, whereas the first attorney had convinced him a standard NCP arrangement was the best he could hope for.  Incidentally, the friend who hadn't even been allowed to speak in his own defense watched all this, hired himself new counsel, and has since also become CP.  So I don't think one can underestimate the power in the message still given to men that they're only option is to be an EOWE dad who pays CS.  DH still runs into divorced dads with kids in bad situations who want to know how on earth he managed to become CP.


Quoting leegirl_jm:

This is a fact, many men refuse to fight because they 'know' they can't win. I think it is unfortunate that people have to battle for access to their children with their child's other parent. I think many men just don't want to engage in that.


 

spicy0425
by Silver Member on Jul. 31, 2013 at 4:44 PM
1 mom liked this

This!!

Quoting leegirl_jm:

This is a fact, many men refuse to fight because they 'know' they can't win. I think it is unfortunate that people have to battle for access to their children with their child's other parent. I think many men just don't want to engage in that.

There's a difference between "men being morons" and "men struggling with a court and custody system that is structurally and fundamentally biased towards women"

In most states, moms get all kids of help. Help filing for cs, establishing a custody order, etc. Men get nothing, except the words "hire a lawyer".

And then women wonder why more men don't "do what it takes, when women are able to" in most cases, women don't have to. It's done for them.




pdxmum
by Ruby Member on Jul. 31, 2013 at 4:45 PM

No matter what the supposed outcome would be, I would battle for access to my kids until all of my assets were gone.  It is a bullshit, lazy excuse that dads just don't want to engage in a battle. 

But I don't disagree with lucky that there exists a system that is biased towards moms.  Not as systemic as it was years ago, but old habits die hard.  I have sole legal custody just because I said I wanted it.  But as far as visitation, BF could have easily had 50/50 if he had tried just one little bit.  I just don't think he was (is) interested in true responsibility for his kids.  Paying CS and seeing them EOWE is about all he wants.  he likes to play victim every now and then that I prevented him from seeing his daughters more.  I remind him that he never asked for me and that I was completely open to change.  About 4 years ago I asked him to take the girls an extra night every other week.  He said sure but he gave up a different night.

No battle would be big enough for me to avoid in regards to my DDs.


Quoting leegirl_jm:

This is a fact, many men refuse to fight because they 'know' they can't win. I think it is unfortunate that people have to battle for access to their children with their child's other parent. I think many men just don't want to engage in that.

There's a difference between "men being morons" and "men struggling with a court and custody system that is structurally and fundamentally biased towards women"

In most states, moms get all kids of help. Help filing for cs, establishing a custody order, etc. Men get nothing, except the words "hire a lawyer".

And then women wonder why more men don't "do what it takes, when women are able to" in most cases, women don't have to. It's done for them.




leegirl_jm
by Ruby Member on Jul. 31, 2013 at 4:56 PM

Men and women are just different as it relates to child custody. 

Quoting pdxmum:

No matter what the supposed outcome would be, I would battle for access to my kids until all of my assets were gone.  It is a bullshit, lazy excuse that dads just don't want to engage in a battle. 

But I don't disagree with lucky that there exists a system that is biased towards moms.  Not as systemic as it was years ago, but old habits die hard.  I have sole legal custody just because I said I wanted it.  But as far as visitation, BF could have easily had 50/50 if he had tried just one little bit.  I just don't think he was (is) interested in true responsibility for his kids.  Paying CS and seeing them EOWE is about all he wants.  he likes to play victim every now and then that I prevented him from seeing his daughters more.  I remind him that he never asked for me and that I was completely open to change.  About 4 years ago I asked him to take the girls an extra night every other week.  He said sure but he gave up a different night.

No battle would be big enough for me to avoid in regards to my DDs.


Quoting leegirl_jm:

This is a fact, many men refuse to fight because they 'know' they can't win. I think it is unfortunate that people have to battle for access to their children with their child's other parent. I think many men just don't want to engage in that.

There's a difference between "men being morons" and "men struggling with a court and custody system that is structurally and fundamentally biased towards women"

In most states, moms get all kids of help. Help filing for cs, establishing a custody order, etc. Men get nothing, except the words "hire a lawyer".

And then women wonder why more men don't "do what it takes, when women are able to" in most cases, women don't have to. It's done for them.





Wife, Mother and Career Woman living in Jamaica

Steamedpuddle30
by Hi, my name is... on Jul. 31, 2013 at 4:57 PM
I like what derdrui wrote.

OP:Sometimes friends or family or spouses can offer you (general)a different approach or advice on how to get things done.

It reminds me of this forum. If I had not come across it,I would have struggled way more in my step-life. Hearing your stories and reading the advice on here gave me hope for a better life.

I would hope most spouses would be helping their spouse out to become better people not worse. (Even though I know this happens just as much)


Quoting Derdriu:

There's still the widespread belief the courts are pro-BM and dads don't stand a snowball's chance in hell.  While I think courts do operate pro-BM, I think they're a lot more fair toward BDs than they used to be.  One of the radio stations I listen to runs a legal ad directly addressing that bias and father's rights. 


When my DH and BM divorced, her attorney steamrolled him.  He then watched a close friend get completely shut out (no testimony, no witnesses, etc.) while the ex got special attention, had her friends testify, etc.  Not an experience that lends itself to any hope.  However, the woman he dated before he met me was a paralegal for a family law attorney, so she saw that type of nonsense every single day.  And while he looked at the situation as hopeless, she looked at it as he simply had a lazy and incompetent attorney.  She didn't want to be a SM, which is why they broke up, but she did help him get the ball rolling for custody.  The attorney who helped him the second time around (and won) was in complete disbelief that anyone in their right mind had given BM custody with her drug and alcohol abuse, whereas the first attorney had convinced him a standard NCP arrangement was the best he could hope for.  Incidentally, the friend who hadn't even been allowed to speak in his own defense watched all this, hired himself new counsel, and has since also become CP.  So I don't think one can underestimate the power in the message still given to men that they're only option is to be an EOWE dad who pays CS.  DH still runs into divorced dads with kids in bad situations who want to know how on earth he managed to become CP.




Quoting leegirl_jm:


This is a fact, many men refuse to fight because they 'know' they can't win. I think it is unfortunate that people have to battle for access to their children with their child's other parent. I think many men just don't want to engage in that.



 

Posted on CafeMom Mobile
Tinkerbellmama
by Platinum Member on Jul. 31, 2013 at 4:58 PM

DH got screwed left and right by the courts in the beginning. That didn't stop him from fighting. It just took a long time (10 years) and a LOT of money (I couldn't even tell you how much). 


Quoting Derdriu:

There's still the widespread belief the courts are pro-BM and dads don't stand a snowball's chance in hell.  While I think courts do operate pro-BM, I think they're a lot more fair toward BDs than they used to be.  One of the radio stations I listen to runs a legal ad directly addressing that bias and father's rights. 

When my DH and BM divorced, her attorney steamrolled him.  He then watched a close friend get completely shut out (no testimony, no witnesses, etc.) while the ex got special attention, had her friends testify, etc.  Not an experience that lends itself to any hope.  However, the woman he dated before he met me was a paralegal for a family law attorney, so she saw that type of nonsense every single day.  And while he looked at the situation as hopeless, she looked at it as he simply had a lazy and incompetent attorney.  She didn't want to be a SM, which is why they broke up, but she did help him get the ball rolling for custody.  The attorney who helped him the second time around (and won) was in complete disbelief that anyone in their right mind had given BM custody with her drug and alcohol abuse, whereas the first attorney had convinced him a standard NCP arrangement was the best he could hope for.  Incidentally, the friend who hadn't even been allowed to speak in his own defense watched all this, hired himself new counsel, and has since also become CP.  So I don't think one can underestimate the power in the message still given to men that they're only option is to be an EOWE dad who pays CS.  DH still runs into divorced dads with kids in bad situations who want to know how on earth he managed to become CP.


Quoting leegirl_jm:

This is a fact, many men refuse to fight because they 'know' they can't win. I think it is unfortunate that people have to battle for access to their children with their child's other parent. I think many men just don't want to engage in that.





Derdriu
by Gold Member on Jul. 31, 2013 at 5:07 PM

My DH met the paralegal just a few months after his divorce from BM was final, so he was back in the fight quickly.  Had it not been for her encouragement, I think it would have taken him a lot longer and the situation gotten much worse.  He certainly gives her a lot of credit.  It took him almost two years after that to get everything final, but he already had possession of the kids by then because BM was off partying.  I can say approximately how it cost because I helped him finish paying off all the attorney's fees.  Not cheap!!  But money well spent.


Quoting Tinkerbellmama:

DH got screwed left and right by the courts in the beginning. That didn't stop him from fighting. It just took a long time (10 years) and a LOT of money (I couldn't even tell you how much). 

 

Quoting Derdriu:

There's still the widespread belief the courts are pro-BM and dads don't stand a snowball's chance in hell.  While I think courts do operate pro-BM, I think they're a lot more fair toward BDs than they used to be.  One of the radio stations I listen to runs a legal ad directly addressing that bias and father's rights. 

When my DH and BM divorced, her attorney steamrolled him.  He then watched a close friend get completely shut out (no testimony, no witnesses, etc.) while the ex got special attention, had her friends testify, etc.  Not an experience that lends itself to any hope.  However, the woman he dated before he met me was a paralegal for a family law attorney, so she saw that type of nonsense every single day.  And while he looked at the situation as hopeless, she looked at it as he simply had a lazy and incompetent attorney.  She didn't want to be a SM, which is why they broke up, but she did help him get the ball rolling for custody.  The attorney who helped him the second time around (and won) was in complete disbelief that anyone in their right mind had given BM custody with her drug and alcohol abuse, whereas the first attorney had convinced him a standard NCP arrangement was the best he could hope for.  Incidentally, the friend who hadn't even been allowed to speak in his own defense watched all this, hired himself new counsel, and has since also become CP.  So I don't think one can underestimate the power in the message still given to men that they're only option is to be an EOWE dad who pays CS.  DH still runs into divorced dads with kids in bad situations who want to know how on earth he managed to become CP.

 

Quoting leegirl_jm:

This is a fact, many men refuse to fight because they 'know' they can't win. I think it is unfortunate that people have to battle for access to their children with their child's other parent. I think many men just don't want to engage in that.


 

 

 


 

packermomof2
by on Jul. 31, 2013 at 5:12 PM
1 mom liked this

 


Quoting Graceplustwo:

I dont care how much or little spouse does for bf . He is still a equal parent because he helped create that child. Regardless if he struggles with parental responsibilities. Child wouldn't exist if it wasn't for his part .

An equal parent acts the part, they don't have their spouse doing things for them.  True, the kids wouldn't exist if it wasn't for dad, but the same isn't said for the sm who does dad's job for him and so she doesn't need to do his job ... if she does she has no right to complain that mom doesn't see dad as an equal, just as someone who is incapable of caring for the kids that he created.
"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
Thomas Jefferson
to James Madison

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Ben Franklin
American Statesman
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