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Visitation when the NCP is out of town: update 2 in blue

Posted by on May. 12, 2014 at 12:29 AM
  • 41 Replies

Do you think the CP is required to drop off the child if the NCP is going to be out of town?

Here's some back story:

BM moved from our town (living about 5 miles away) to go back and live with her mom (4-5 hours away) in mid-December. The current CO reflects that. However, about 6 weeks ago BM informed DH she had gotten a new job and would be moving back to our city ASAP. In those 6 weeks BM has seen SD once (according to SD). SD comes home and complains that she didn't see BM at all, that BM was working in our city.

SD has special needs, some of it is very similar to autism with really needing consistency and a schedule. SD has had some pretty massive meltdowns the last few weeks due to issues with needing to know what was going on with BM and where BM would be and if she'd see BM. Of course, those are things that DH and I can't answer. (SD is 13, 14 next month, but developmentally 3/4-10/11 depending on the areas, but overall she's about 10/11)

Today was Mother's day, weekends were switched so that BM could have SD this weekend. DH drove halfway and dropped SD off with BM's mom on Friday. DH again drove halfway today to pick SD up. He picked up a very angry SD who got into the car, burst into tears and started melting down about how BM wasn't there and was working in our town again and SD was sick of going to visits with BM with BM not being there.

DH sent BM an email about this (communication is done via email unless it's an emergency as the situation is high conflict). DH explained SD's meltdowns to BM (as he has over the past nearly 2 years of inconsistent visitations); except this time DH went a step further. He said, "the parenting plan is between you and me, not you, your mom, and me. I won't be traveling to X town for SD to have visitation with your mom. If you want to give up your weekend to your mom then it's up to you to get SD to your mom. If I don't hear from you by Thursday morning at 8am regarding next weekend's visit I am assuming that SD is staying in town with me. If you need to make arrangements to see SD around your work schedule email me and we'll make it work."

SD was a super cranky kid when she got home. And, again, SD did not do any therapy exercises/activities while gone. And BM knows that SD has upcoming appointments with specialists to determine SD's progress and to see if SD needs surgery or if she can come out of her leg braces.

It's just getting frustrated! And honestly, we're spending an extra $100 a month to give BM's visitation to BM's mom, all the while BM is falling further and further behind in CS, and refusing to help with SD's youth group trips (she's not CO'ed to do so, but has in the past told DH via email that if SD needs things to let her know...)


Update:

DH asked BM to contact him by Thursday morning. No response yet, so he sent her a text and asked her to ensure that she's read her email. I'm anticipating a big fight, only because I just don't trust BM. She hasn't responded to DH's text, she also hasn't responded to SD's texts since Monday.


Update 2:
At 2pm this afternoon BM sent DH a text saying, "I will be picking up SD today at 6pm at X location and I will drop her off at the same location at 6pm on Sunday." (the location just 3 minutes from our house). DH just said, "That's fine, we will be there."

So, BM is taking visitation. It's unknown as to whether or not she'll be spending that time with SD or if she's just dropping SD off with BM's mom. But, I guess that's her choice.

SD was very anxious asking both DH and I where she was going this weekend. We just kept telling her that we don't know, she'll have to talk to BM about that, but that BM is picking her up at 6pm at X location.

by on May. 12, 2014 at 12:29 AM
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Replies (1-10):
jules2boys
by Gold Member on May. 12, 2014 at 1:27 AM
My boys do not go to BFs if BF isn't going to be there. They never have. This is a precedence that your DH set up with his intentions long ago but it isn't working any longer. I don't think what he told BM in the email was a bad thing, I think it is reasonable. GM may have issues with it but I suspect your DH would continue to allow visits with GM if she provided transport as well. SD needs stability. BM can't/won't provide that at this time. BF needs to do what is best for DD.

In some situations it makes sense for SM to have the visit if the bio won't be there but it doesn't seem to make sense in your situation (nor mine).
momof2ex1
by Ruby Member on May. 12, 2014 at 1:28 AM
I agree with what your husband did. I do not have a child with the same needs as your SD but I do fully believe that the 'visiting' parent should at least be present for majority of the parenting time regardless of their needs. Add in your SDs SNs and I believe that should be a top priority.

I had a similar issue and I had it changed in our court order. I don't know how feasible that is for your dh to do but I would definitely consult an attorney to see what his chances are of getting that added to the court order to protect him from any contempt charges later on.

I understand that parents do have to work and lots of people work on weekends. But BM needs to communicate that to dh and make some changes so she can actually see her child.

I also have concerns about her therapy not being done during those weekends. One step forward two steps back every single time she goes to BMs and/or grandmas and doesn't continue her exercises. This has been an on going battle for as long as I can remember. That needs to also be addressed. It would be perfect for BM to take sd to dinner or to a park for some time together while she is in town working. Your husband has offered to make it work for her.

Do you think that ex MIL is strong arming BM to letting ex MIL have BMs weekends when BM has to work? Or do you think that BM is just having her mom keep sd since she has to work and her mother is just helping her out. (Without knowing that it's causing sd stress).
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Tinkerbellmama
by Platinum Member on May. 12, 2014 at 2:18 AM
When BM was CP Gma was SD's primary caretaker. Gma was the "brains" behind BM taking off with SD and the financing of the attorney when it went to court when SD was w.

I think BM would be more than happy to come and go in SD's life being seeig her for a few hours here and there, but Gma holds the $ and basically pays BM for time with SD.

Honestly, DH doesn't have a problem with Gma taking BM's visits if 1. BM wasn't making promises to SD about seeing each other and then breaking them and 2. We weren't the ones paying the $100 a month (while not getting CS and also paying for 100% of all of SD's other needs) for those visits.

Quoting momof2ex1: I agree with what your husband did. I do not have a child with the same needs as your SD but I do fully believe that the 'visiting' parent should at least be present for majority of the parenting time regardless of their needs. Add in your SDs SNs and I believe that should be a top priority.

I had a similar issue and I had it changed in our court order. I don't know how feasible that is for your dh to do but I would definitely consult an attorney to see what his chances are of getting that added to the court order to protect him from any contempt charges later on.

I understand that parents do have to work and lots of people work on weekends. But BM needs to communicate that to dh and make some changes so she can actually see her child.

I also have concerns about her therapy not being done during those weekends. One step forward two steps back every single time she goes to BMs and/or grandmas and doesn't continue her exercises. This has been an on going battle for as long as I can remember. That needs to also be addressed. It would be perfect for BM to take sd to dinner or to a park for some time together while she is in town working. Your husband has offered to make it work for her.

Do you think that ex MIL is strong arming BM to letting ex MIL have BMs weekends when BM has to work? Or do you think that BM is just having her mom keep sd since she has to work and her mother is just helping her out. (Without knowing that it's causing sd stress).
Tinkerbellmama
by Platinum Member on May. 12, 2014 at 2:23 AM
Forgot to address the therapy thing, lol

We're working with SD on a reward system for doing her therapy stuff. The goal is to bypass BM and Gma altogether to get them done. I'm actually really surprised (and proud!) that SD was honest about not doing them. DH also addressed that in his email.

Even with her SNs there's no reason SD can't be responsible for getting her exercises done.

Quoting momof2ex1: I agree with what your husband did. I do not have a child with the same needs as your SD but I do fully believe that the 'visiting' parent should at least be present for majority of the parenting time regardless of their needs. Add in your SDs SNs and I believe that should be a top priority.

I had a similar issue and I had it changed in our court order. I don't know how feasible that is for your dh to do but I would definitely consult an attorney to see what his chances are of getting that added to the court order to protect him from any contempt charges later on.

I understand that parents do have to work and lots of people work on weekends. But BM needs to communicate that to dh and make some changes so she can actually see her child.

I also have concerns about her therapy not being done during those weekends. One step forward two steps back every single time she goes to BMs and/or grandmas and doesn't continue her exercises. This has been an on going battle for as long as I can remember. That needs to also be addressed. It would be perfect for BM to take sd to dinner or to a park for some time together while she is in town working. Your husband has offered to make it work for her.

Do you think that ex MIL is strong arming BM to letting ex MIL have BMs weekends when BM has to work? Or do you think that BM is just having her mom keep sd since she has to work and her mother is just helping her out. (Without knowing that it's causing sd stress).
Birdseed
by Platinum Member on May. 12, 2014 at 9:46 AM

I think these sorts of things have to be addressed on a case by case basis.

In this case, I think your DH was correct to do what he did and it seems to me it might also make sense to get an ROFR put in place if there's not one already.  That's the only hitch I can imagine--if no ROFR, BM technically is free to leave the child with whomever if she's not around but your DH could be in contempt for not making the child available.

Would it be possible to plan on dinner with Mom on the weekends when she's in town working?  Or even during the week?  It's obviously important to SD to see her mom.  Perhaps there's something other than the standard EOWE visitation that would work.  DH could make arrangements for BM to pick DD up for dinner.  As long as he doesn't tell DD ahead of time, she will not be disappointed.  And if it DOES happen, she'll have a nice surprise.


progressandjoy
by Silver Member on May. 12, 2014 at 10:10 AM
I agree that it's case by case.

My dad was an LDNCP. He lived two and a half hours away. My paternal grandparents (who lived in town) picked me up from school EOWE and drove halfway to meet my dad.

On the few occasions that my dad was out of town/unable to drive down, I spent the weekend with my grandparents. But it was rare that dad missed out on his visits, so staying with my grandparents was a rare occasion.
Tinkerbellmama
by Platinum Member on May. 12, 2014 at 10:20 AM
DH hasoffered stuff like that numerous times. BM knows that if she's in town and wants to see SD that all she has to do is text or email DH and he'll work something out with her.

The problem is, seeing SD doesn't seem to be a priority for BM. :(

Quoting Birdseed:

I think these sorts of things have to be addressed on a case by case basis.

In this case, I think your DH was correct to do what he did and it seems to me it might also make sense to get an ROFR put in place if there's not one already.  That's the only hitch I can imagine--if no ROFR, BM technically is free to leave the child with whomever if she's not around but your DH could be in contempt for not making the child available.

Would it be possible to plan on dinner with Mom on the weekends when she's in town working?  Or even during the week?  It's obviously important to SD to see her mom.  Perhaps there's something other than the standard EOWE visitation that would work.  DH could make arrangements for BM to pick DD up for dinner.  As long as he doesn't tell DD ahead of time, she will not be disappointed.  And if it DOES happen, she'll have a nice surprise.

Tinkerbellmama
by Platinum Member on May. 12, 2014 at 3:27 PM

When DH was NCP he worked Saturdays, he'd be gone until about 4-4:30. He'd pick SD up on Fridays, spend the evening with her, get up and go to work on Saturday, then spend the rest of the day with SD on Saturday after work, then he'd spend all Sunday with her until it was time to take her back to BM.

If BM were simply working Saturday and Sunday during the day but still spending time with SD that would fine. I mean, if you gotta work, you gotta work. The problem is that she's most likely not even living at her mom's house she's 4-5 hours away from her mom's house (and only 5-10 minutes away from our house). If SD stayed in town with us while BM worked, BM could still see SD in the evenings after work. Heck, DH has told BM over and over (and he did in this email too) that if she's living in town she's not limited to what the CO says. If she wants to see SD outside of her EOWE time to just text or email and he'll work with her.

Quoting jules2boys: My boys do not go to BFs if BF isn't going to be there. They never have. This is a precedence that your DH set up with his intentions long ago but it isn't working any longer. I don't think what he told BM in the email was a bad thing, I think it is reasonable. GM may have issues with it but I suspect your DH would continue to allow visits with GM if she provided transport as well. SD needs stability. BM can't/won't provide that at this time. BF needs to do what is best for DD. In some situations it makes sense for SM to have the visit if the bio won't be there but it doesn't seem to make sense in your situation (nor mine).


Tinkerbellmama
by Platinum Member on May. 12, 2014 at 3:30 PM

Honestly, the biggest issue here is that it doesn't appear that BM is even living in that home anymore. No one is communicating with DH about what's going on. Hell, no one is even telling SD what's going on. She's heads out thinking she's going to go see her grandma and her mom, and then all of a sudden finds out mom isn't there and she's not going to see her mom at all.

We wouldn't expect BM to spend $100 a month to get SD to DH's parents for a visit, and we shouldn't be expected do spend $100 a month so that SD can visit with BM's mom.

If BM wants her mom to take her visits, then she should be financially responsible for the travel.

Quoting progressandjoy: I agree that it's case by case. My dad was an LDNCP. He lived two and a half hours away. My paternal grandparents (who lived in town) picked me up from school EOWE and drove halfway to meet my dad. On the few occasions that my dad was out of town/unable to drive down, I spent the weekend with my grandparents. But it was rare that dad missed out on his visits, so staying with my grandparents was a rare occasion.


Boobear110
by Audra on May. 12, 2014 at 3:38 PM

I agree with what your DH did. There is no reason for you guys to have to take the time and money to transport SD when Mom isn't even there for the visit. 

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