Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

Manufacturing Dead Beat Parents, Govt Style

Posted by on May. 8, 2016 at 12:54 AM
  • 27 Replies
From the Child Support Hustle:

Manufacturing “Deadbeat Parents” Government Style

The child support enforcement laws that have been enacted in the past few years are unfair to non custodial parents. A primary difficulty with these laws is their inflexibility. Due to any number of circumstances, non custodial parents may find their earnings decreased due to lay-off, injury, illness or many other reasons. But the mechanism for modification of support orders is very slow to respond. In fact as is often the case, NCP’s are faced with huge arrears due to their inability to make full payment of child support for months at a time. Once there’s an arrears, it can not by law, be modified. This is clearly unjust. Under current law, NCP’s who fall behind in their child support payments can be judged criminals, even felons and imprisoned. If NCP’s fall behind in the court ordered support payments, they can lose their drivers license, in addition to their professional license to conduct business and they can also be denied a passport. Measures to extract the maximum possible amount of money from non-custodial parents have become increasingly extreme and often violate the basic principles of human dignity and privacy upon which this country was founded. States are now posting pictures and biographies of parents with outstanding balances on the internet in an attempt to humiliate them into compliance.

Millions are being spent developing linked computer systems and databases in order to locate and seize the “assets” of “deadbeat parents,” when in fact the primary reason that most NCP’s fall behind in their child support is inability to pay. I believe that these measures all violate the constitutionally guaranteed civil rights of tens of thousands of fathers and other non-custodial parents. The specific rights violated include the right to equal protection, due process, the prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment and arbitrary fines and penalties. These new measures simply will not work for the following reasons:

Criminalizing parents cannot be good for the children. It drives a wedge between the parent and the child and is not only unfair to the parent but it may severely damage the self esteem of the child.
The new laws will clog the system.
They will result in ever increasing numbers of parent withdrawing from participation in their children’s lives.
They will result in ever increasing numbers of parents opting out of mainstream society, to hide out from what they consider unfair prosecution.
They will result in parents being sent to prison simply for experiencing financial hardships and falling behind in support payments.
They will increase divisiveness in our society.
They will further reduce our civil liberties.
The combined force of well-meaning but misguided laws, judicial traditions and government polices (Title-IV-D Funding) drive many loving fathers out of their children’s lives. Many judges are creating a river of wounded and destroyed children and families. Some fathers and organizations have responded with commiseration, fellowship and counseling. Policy and lawmakers must consider some of the rewards of mothers and other custodial parents such as: free food, free legal aid, free medical, free shelter and tax deductions. Alabama and other state Senators, Legislators and judges need to discuss ways in which child support laws & payments affect family structure, teenage delinquency and income disparities between parents. People especially elected officials will see the light if only they see the child support system from a law and economic perspective. Once they do they will be able to consider the incentives faced by both custodial and non-custodial parents and search for policy actions that are more incentive compatible for all participants. Non-custodial parents need to get more organized and politically active by creating support groups that will do letter campaigns to elected officials. Non-custodial parents must start making politicians pay the price at the poles. At the moment our elected officials are pandering to the sympathetic group which most consists of custodial parents while demonizing non-custodial parents who the state seeks to financially enslave for Title IV-D Funding.

The head of the federal child support office (Ms. Turetsky), said the system should be based on the expectation that both parents would contribute toward their children’s needs. “It’s nuts,” she said of the policy of making destitute fathers repay welfare. “She gets the assistance; he gets charged with the bill.” One of the biggest problems I see in the system is that local judges and case workers REFUSE to see the non-custodial as not having the ability to pay no matter what. Judicial arrogance and blindness exits because of the judges and case workers direct benefit of Title IV-D Funding. This must change:

http://www.petition2congress.com/10413/family-court-corruption-to-abolish-title-iv-d-funding-from-states
by on May. 8, 2016 at 12:54 AM
Add your quick reply below:
You must be a member to reply to this post.
Replies (1-10):
pusheen-kitty
by Battler on May. 8, 2016 at 1:01 AM
Surprised Obama tackled all of his bucket list agendas except CS Reform.

Maybe next year..
minimoo
by Platinum Member on May. 8, 2016 at 11:35 AM
2 moms liked this
Eh...that might be the case in some places. That has not been true where I live. Here, you can get a modification even if you are in arrears. Bf was several thousand dollars in arrears and filed for a modification 6 months later. They lowered his support and backdated it to the date he filed; because he had started paying again when he went to court, they used the amount he paid over towards the arrears to lower it. He then proceeded to stop paying any support with the exception of a couple dollars here and there for 5 years. The only enforcement they took was garnishing his income tax return. He didn't lose his license, wasn't jailed, nothing else. I'm sure they did report him for his credit report, but his credit is so fucked up, that would phase him nor would he care. If he had filed for a modification when he quit/got fired (he alternates between them- he is a horrible worker, but also likes to quit his jobs before child support finds him to garnish) his job instead of just not paying, or notified cse like he was required to do, he would have owed even less.

In my experience, along with some of my ncp father friends who can't upon tough times, the cs system, at least here, is pretty fair for the ncp. If there is a job loss, cse themselves can handle the order as long as there isn't a dispute. And even if there is a dispute and arrears add up, if the judge orders the change, it will get backdated to the date of filing, which can cancel it the arrears. They are VERY lenient here for ncfathers when it comes to child support. Even when bf testified that he quit his job willingly not having another job lined up AND the judge even stated that they felt he lied on his financial affidavit and was making more than he claimed (most of his income was under the table and he redacted it from his evidence he submitted), they still sympathized with him and significantly lowered his obligation to support dd. And he wasn't providing for her at his house either- he was squatting in a foreclosed house and living off welfare, food stamps, and whatever money he and sm could mooch from their friends and family. It is what it is- I learned early on that dd nor I could count on him to be responsible and help. But no...the system did not manufacture a deadbeat with him- he chooses to be one. I'm sure he and sm would blame the system (and me- bc everything is my fault lol) and whine and cry about the injustice of people expecting him to support his children as any parent obligated to, but reality is...it is a parent's duty to provide for their children. It is the CHILD'S right to be provided for by their parents. I would like to think that most parents understand that. Unfortunately, there are people out there like my ex and sm who feel that it really isn't their job to support their kids. As far as dd is concerned, bf has always known that I will never let dd go without, so he figured he shouldn't have to help. Their own kids, he follows his mom's philosophy and example that kids are a paycheck from the government and will get you more free shit from people with hearts when you tell them sob stories about what a "victim" you are. Then you have people like my neighbor- he shares custody 50-50 (they work around his work schedule- coparent very well), but he still pays more in cs than even after my ex's obligation was raised. Like about 2K. He has never once whined about it. A few years ago, his business took a tumble, and he was struggling financially. He talked to the ex to let her know that at that moment, he couldn't afford the cs and was at risk for losing his house, but he wanted her to know what was going on because he knew the kids still had expenses. Notified cse, they filed a modification, lowered his support significantly. They backdated it as well. He helped out with as much as he could extra. As soon as business started picking up again, he requested the modification to make it higher again.

So I don't know. I know the system isn't perfect and has flaws. But many of those flaws are there to protect the children from people like my ex. But the ultimate purpose is to ensure that children have support from both parents. They deserve that.

What reform do you feel should be done for cs?
soonergirl980
by Platinum Member on May. 8, 2016 at 12:19 PM
4 moms liked this
The system nor the government is at fault for creating deadbeats. The problem is the people. "The system refuses to see when they can't pay"? No those people refuse to see that supporting a child they brought into the world isn't an optional activity. You are REQUIRED to help support your children. The average cs support payment in 2010 was a mere 430 dollars. You find a way to pay to support your kids even if it means working 14 jobs to do it.
Shabby_Chic
by Silver Member on May. 8, 2016 at 12:46 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting soonergirl980: The system nor the government is at fault for creating deadbeats. The problem is the people. "The system refuses to see when they can't pay"? No those people refuse to see that supporting a child they brought into the world isn't an optional activity. You are REQUIRED to help support your children. The average cs support payment in 2010 was a mere 430 dollars. You find a way to pay to support your kids even if it means working 14 jobs to do it.

Yep. If the CP can't pay and gets help or struggles it has been said they shouldn't have custody. If you expect the other parent to help out financially that means you can't do it alone and should hand the child over (becasue all it takes is money, right?). A NCP can't do it? Let's cut them some slack, they are trying, etc. 

No one is making a deadbdeat a deadbeat. A true deadbeat is one that isn't trying or is trying but only to get out of doing what they shoudl be doing. Those that can't but are helping in other ways are different. 

leegirl_jm
by Ruby Member on May. 8, 2016 at 12:59 PM
3 moms liked this

Oh come on, there are bigger issues than CS reform to tackle. Obama will be playing golf next year and getting back some of the black in his hair. Maybe Trump or Hilary will tackle CS reform next year, hmmmm....I don't think so.

Quoting pusheen-kitty: Surprised Obama tackled all of his bucket list agendas except CS Reform. Maybe next year..


Career Woman, Wife and Mother of Two Children, a Girl and a Boy.

child_of_fire
by Bronze Member on May. 8, 2016 at 1:05 PM
BM was 27K in arrears and we modified to accept less than half of the state minimum, with half of that going towards arrears. We sound stupid but the trade off was we always get to claim DSD, BM is no longer considered a felon and won't be arrested because she is paying it off, and she no longer has the ability to get shitty and threaten to take us to court for things like purple nail polish (real example). Also she signed an agreement that if she misses a payment, she has to pay our lawyer to take her to court. That's how the arrearage got so large-- we couldn't afford to take her to court.

Most of the things in this article are misrepresented and some are false. I'm guessing some are true state by state, but BM got to 27K arrearage and no one blinked. We were told to get the money, we'd need a lawyer OR to be comfortable with her being arrested. We weren't. We were still able to find an agreeable solution.
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
Rocker.Mom.07
by on May. 8, 2016 at 4:31 PM

It's pure ignorance to say that Child Support is in no way a factor is creating "deadbeats". It's totally a factor in some cases...especially when CP can use it against them in letting them see their children. And on top of that...one of the penalties is sending a parent to jail for not paying money. It's a fucking (excuse my language) joke.
Then to bitch, Dad only wants more time so he pays less!   ooor maybe he wants to see his kids and not pay half of his paycheck, hardly afford to even live on his own, while mom can deny him visitation 'cuz he didn't pay yet... oh, and I'm sure the one paying CS likes to keep their DLs and not go to jail.
Anyway...I've voiced my opinion about CS. While most people keep their heads in the sand about the huge issues going on with it because, They helped make the kid, too!  thought proccess...they are blind to many other issues that go on in the real, ever increasing fucked up, world of family law.

minimoo
by Platinum Member on May. 8, 2016 at 5:44 PM
Exactly. There wouldn't need to be a system if there weren't people who felt it wasn't their job to help support the children they helped create.

Quoting soonergirl980: The system nor the government is at fault for creating deadbeats. The problem is the people. "The system refuses to see when they can't pay"? No those people refuse to see that supporting a child they brought into the world isn't an optional activity. You are REQUIRED to help support your children. The average cs support payment in 2010 was a mere 430 dollars. You find a way to pay to support your kids even if it means working 14 jobs to do it.
minimoo
by Platinum Member on May. 8, 2016 at 5:57 PM
1 mom liked this
I do believe in most states, cs and visitation are two completely separate issues. The cannot legally withhold visitation because of nonpayment. If they do, the ncp has grounds for contempt in court. Also, in most cases, it takes a LOT for punitive action to take place such as jail time and loss of license. And if they are making ANY effort at all, they generally do not enforce punitive action. If it gets to that point, the person who feels it is not their job to help provide for their child has nobody to blame but themselves. It's actually a fucking joke that those people would then have the balls to bitch about being held accountable for financially neglecting their child/ren. They also cannot legally garnish more than a certain percentage of their paychecks. You are concerned about a deadbeat wanting to keep their DL and stay out of jail when it is their choice to not support their kid? You should be concerned about the child not being neglected by their patent and having the right to being given a shit about.

Quoting Rocker.Mom.07:

It's pure ignorance to say that Child Support is in no way a factor is creating "deadbeats". It's totally a factor in some cases...especially when CP can use it against them in letting them see their children. And on top of that...one of the penalties is sending a parent to jail for not paying money. It's a fucking (excuse my language) joke. Then to bitch, Dad only wants more time so he pays less!   ooor maybe he wants to see his kids and not pay half of his paycheck, hardly afford to even live on his own, while mom can deny him visitation 'cuz he didn't pay yet... oh, and I'm sure the one paying CS likes to keep their DLs and not go to jail. Anyway...I've voiced my opinion about CS. While most people keep their heads in the sand about the huge issues going on with it because, They helped make the kid, too!  thought proccess...they are blind to many other issues that go on in the real, ever increasing fucked up, world of family law.

Rocker.Mom.07
by on May. 8, 2016 at 6:29 PM
K. I'm not going to debate with anyone anymore on this subject. I already know the state of mind most women are in on this subject and there is no conversation worth having over it. I'm not being mean, I just won't waste either of our time :)

Quoting minimoo: I do believe in most states, cs and visitation are two completely separate issues. The cannot legally withhold visitation because of nonpayment. If they do, the ncp has grounds for contempt in court. Also, in most cases, it takes a LOT for punitive action to take place such as jail time and loss of license. And if they are making ANY effort at all, they generally do not enforce punitive action. If it gets to that point, the person who feels it is not their job to help provide for their child has nobody to blame but themselves. It's actually a fucking joke that those people would then have the balls to bitch about being held accountable for financially neglecting their child/ren. They also cannot legally garnish more than a certain percentage of their paychecks. You are concerned about a deadbeat wanting to keep their DL and stay out of jail when it is their choice to not support their kid? You should be concerned about the child not being neglected by their patent and having the right to being given a shit about.

Quoting Rocker.Mom.07:

It's pure ignorance to say that Child Support is in no way a factor is creating "deadbeats". It's totally a factor in some cases...especially when CP can use it against them in letting them see their children. And on top of that...one of the penalties is sending a parent to jail for not paying money. It's a fucking (excuse my language) joke. Then to bitch, Dad only wants more time so he pays less!   ooor maybe he wants to see his kids and not pay half of his paycheck, hardly afford to even live on his own, while mom can deny him visitation 'cuz he didn't pay yet... oh, and I'm sure the one paying CS likes to keep their DLs and not go to jail. Anyway...I've voiced my opinion about CS. While most people keep their heads in the sand about the huge issues going on with it because, They helped make the kid, too!  thought proccess...they are blind to many other issues that go on in the real, ever increasing fucked up, world of family law.

Add your quick reply below:
You must be a member to reply to this post.
Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)