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F****** BF. Updated page 2; Minor update in post.

Posted by on May. 8, 2016 at 8:18 PM
  • 67 Replies

Just when I think we really are at a good place, he starts.  Like DD21 says, he must be manic.  Plus SM left about a week ago for her 4 months away in the southwest as a ranger/fire fighter.  So he is also sad and lonely I guess.

im on the phone with a stressed out DD21 who is struggling to get homework done. Suddenly she says why is dad texting sis and I about how much we spend a month?  We don't know how much we spend a month, you pay for most of everything.  So she tries to say that to her dad, you don't have to worry about that, you only pay 1/3 of tuition and rent.  Mom pays for everything else like books, food, clothes,mtransportation, tickets and anything else we need.  

So he tells them he does need to know because, drum roll please, he pays child support.

fuck.

about 2 months ago as I was putting together spreadsheets about who owes what in regards to tuition and rent, he brings this up thinking he shouldn't have to pay anything because he pays CS.  I reminded him about our deal,( yes we agreed to this 4 years ago when OdD was a freshman) where I would pay for everything outside of rent and tuition.  But I invited him to take on the task of tracking expenses and deciding who owed what if he wanted to track more exactly.  I told him I would be glad to send him a breakdown of what I pay if he would do the same.  And also if he wanted to go down this path, I would put together that spreadsheet of medical expenses that I have paid 100% of for the past 7 years. I reminded him that he gets a deal.   As expected, he declined my offer to let him take on the family accountant role.

im frustrated at this but I'm angrier about his reaction when I suggested he not try to have this conversation with the girls via group text.  That he should have the conversations individually because the girls have very different relationships with him and one will get mad and the other will defend and then they ramp up and end up fighting with each other.

To that he said "they are adults, they need to learn to manage that".

BF comes from one of the most fucked up family dynamics of any person I know.  Five siblings who are so freaking dysfunctional with one another everytime they are together as they process their fucked up childhood  And all of them are in their fifties and sixties.  He hasn't figured out how to be an adult but he expects his 19 and 21 year old children to be what he can't.  

I bit my tongue and didn't  say that.  He will never get it, I have tried.   But I did ask him if he was helping them learn to do that or was he just hoping they already knew?

Rant over.

Minor UPDATE #3

So, in my response to BF that had him pull back from his requests for change was me saying I might just have to consider filing a modification if he continued since it had been years since he had paid for a variety of things he was supposed to pay.

When DH was in the hospital last week, I received a notice from the court that he was filing for a modification.  I uttered the word fuck and put it aside to deal with once DH was healthy.  So, it appeared he had already filed for a modification before he spoke to the girls and before my email.

When I got back in town Saturday, there was a letter from the court saying he had withdrawn the request for modification.

This was a ramp up meltdown like I haven't seen in awhile.  Just glad he got down from the ledge.


He's coming to our house on June 10 with both his sisters and their husbands for DD21s graduation party.  I really hope he is in a good place.



by on May. 8, 2016 at 8:18 PM
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Replies (1-10):
codysara
by Platinum Member on May. 8, 2016 at 9:56 PM
3 moms liked this
Well they are old enough to be able to discuss their own expenses with him, and they should know at that age what their expenses are, however...CS is not between kids of any age and parents
pdxmum
by Ruby Member on May. 8, 2016 at 11:12 PM
I wish he was discussing managing their expenses and financial literacy. That would be parenting.

But it isn't. It's all about CS.

He feels like he is somehow getting screwed by me financially, isn't willing to discuss with me or look at a model that would be more labor intensive but he would have to do the labor. So, he shuts down dialog with me for 6 weeks and then lays it on them.

He wants an accounting of what they spend (actually what I spend) so he can figure out if he can pay less for tuition.

That's cool. His right. I've already told him that next year he will spend less in tuition because I won't spend as much on personal expenses for DDs because ODD graduates.

I'm more concerned about his lack of understanding regarding his daughters and how asking them to have a joint conversation with him via group text is asking for trouble.

Quoting codysara: Well they are old enough to be able to discuss their own expenses with him, and they should know at that age what their expenses are, however...CS is not between kids of any age and parents
codysara
by Platinum Member on May. 9, 2016 at 12:08 AM
If he doesn't know that after 21 years as dad, he never will. Best bet is the girls communicate and understand/expect this behavior from him. Try and get ahead of any future arguments they may be put in.

Quoting pdxmum: I wish he was discussing managing their expenses and financial literacy. That would be parenting.

But it isn't. It's all about CS.

He feels like he is somehow getting screwed by me financially, isn't willing to discuss with me or look at a model that would be more labor intensive but he would have to do the labor. So, he shuts down dialog with me for 6 weeks and then lays it on them.

He wants an accounting of what they spend (actually what I spend) so he can figure out if he can pay less for tuition.

That's cool. His right. I've already told him that next year he will spend less in tuition because I won't spend as much on personal expenses for DDs because ODD graduates.

I'm more concerned about his lack of understanding regarding his daughters and how asking them to have a joint conversation with him via group text is asking for trouble.

Quoting codysara: Well they are old enough to be able to discuss their own expenses with him, and they should know at that age what their expenses are, however...CS is not between kids of any age and parents
leegirl_jm
by Ruby Member on May. 9, 2016 at 12:10 AM
3 moms liked this

Sounds like he is being himself, perhaps it may be more useful to help the girls in managing this type of interaction with him but I think at their ages they need to be able to manage interactions like these with their father.

CountryMomma123
by on May. 9, 2016 at 12:15 AM
Is is new wife or girls name Terrie
pdxmum
by Ruby Member on May. 9, 2016 at 12:17 AM
1 mom liked this
It's something I have been doing for about 4 or 5 years now. They both get it. They both know he gets manic and hyper focused on things. He is bi-polar.

In the moment though they take it out on each other.

I was thinking I was ahead of this one. I really didn't even know he had an issue. When we communicated 6 weeks ago he was gushing with appreciation for me and how much work I do for the business end of our parenting relationship. That's what is so confusing about going to DDs. ODD felt like he was using them to get info about me. Something they have never felt. YDD got really confused about why he was asking her and not me.

YDD sent me screen shots of her absolutely adorable text convo with her sister where they owned how mad they were but didn't want to be mad at each other. Full of Inside Me bitmojis and heart/love bitmojis. They worked it out via text 10 feet from each other behind their closed bedroom doors that had been slammed shut earlier.

BF sent an email. I'll read it tomorrow.

Quoting codysara: If he doesn't know that after 21 years as dad, he never will. Best bet is the girls communicate and understand/expect this behavior from him. Try and get ahead of any future arguments they may be put in.

Quoting pdxmum: I wish he was discussing managing their expenses and financial literacy. That would be parenting.

But it isn't. It's all about CS.

He feels like he is somehow getting screwed by me financially, isn't willing to discuss with me or look at a model that would be more labor intensive but he would have to do the labor. So, he shuts down dialog with me for 6 weeks and then lays it on them.

He wants an accounting of what they spend (actually what I spend) so he can figure out if he can pay less for tuition.

That's cool. His right. I've already told him that next year he will spend less in tuition because I won't spend as much on personal expenses for DDs because ODD graduates.

I'm more concerned about his lack of understanding regarding his daughters and how asking them to have a joint conversation with him via group text is asking for trouble.

Quoting codysara: Well they are old enough to be able to discuss their own expenses with him, and they should know at that age what their expenses are, however...CS is not between kids of any age and parents
pdxmum
by Ruby Member on May. 9, 2016 at 12:18 AM
No. Why? Sound familiar?

Quoting CountryMomma123: Is is new wife or girls name Terrie
pdxmum
by Ruby Member on May. 9, 2016 at 12:25 AM
This is their Achilles heel. YDD is the peacemaker defender of everything Dad and ODD is the hurt angry one speaking her pain. Older thinks younger needs to smarten up and quit enabling while younger thinks older is just rude and mean to him. They have a long road with this. I encourage them to not try and change the others feelings about dad.

And with him, in real time as he was texting them while I was on the phone with a ramping up ODD I suggested he have the conversation by voice and not group text because they were getting frustrated and elevated and mad at each other. That's when he said they were adults and needed to manage themselves.

He owned nothing about the odd requests and uncomfortable positions and sudden need to get data immediately when he hasn't discussed budget with them ever. Ever.

I try. My job is to help them have a healthy living relationship with their dad. He won't do it and I'm not about to leave them without effective tools.

Quoting leegirl_jm:

Sounds like he is being himself, perhaps it may be more useful to help the girls in managing this type of interaction with him but I think at their ages they need to be able to manage interactions like these with their father.

pusheen-kitty
by Battler on May. 9, 2016 at 4:54 AM
2 moms liked this
Idk. The mutual children you have with your ex are getting older, and it's impossible to shield them from everything. At some point, they are or will have to deal with dad directly.

How they handle it, even if they do not handle it they way anyone wants, is kind of how they will handle it.

I see this with my own younger siblings and how they deal with "The D word." One feels bad, one wants nothing to do with him and one is always the rainbow and unicorns type. Myself, I am more "clinical" in my "assessment."

Even when confronted with facts , or what they can see with their own eyes is colored by some romanticized notion of what "dad" is. Frustrating, sure, but it's every coping mechanism good or bad known to man, and the only way to reconcile a parent as one gets older (for some).

Like Cody said, regardless, CS and who pays what should never be brought up between parents and kids. They know dad pays some, and you pay the rest. How do they know how much you contribute? I guess eventually adult kids find out. I don't know.
pdxmum
by Ruby Member on May. 9, 2016 at 10:41 AM

I agree about cutting them loose.  And for the most part, I have.  This was different because I was on the phone with DD21 when dad started the group text.  DD21 suffers from anxiety and was having a peak crisis.  Talking to mom helps.  Then she started talking about what did dad want, why is YDD telling him that stuff, that isn't accurate.  She starts yelling at her sister, I encourage her to recognize that she is in a bad place looking for a fight and to shut herself off from the group text. Yeah, I'm 150 miles away.  Couldn't do much.  Then YDD texted me asking me to tell her sister to be less rude when she brings up her blunt logic. (This is where the Achilles heel I spoke of earlier comes in - YDD takes that as an attack on her dad so she pushes back on ODD telling her to be nice.)

i sent Bf a text suggesting he table the discussion or at least stop the group text because ODD is having a difficult day with her anxiety and the convo is exacerbating it.  His answer, the dad who is bipolar and also suffers from debilitating anxiety, is she is an adult now and needs to handle it.  

Im not trying to change the way either one of them feel about their dad, I am trying to help them respect their different feelings about him.  And yes, this is their journey.  But I'm still mom and I still try.  

Once the girls got to college, we were very transparent about how to pay for college.  Each of us (mom, dad, kid) pay 1/3 of tuition plus rent.  Because mom still gets support from dad, mom pays for everything else.

Tha is the extent to which I talk about support.  Over the years, almost 11 now, BF fights what support is.  From I should pay for anything and everything for the girls including clothes he buys for his home (he used to send me the bill), to not taking them in vacation because he pays CS and he can only afford to take SM on vacation (DDs shamed him into taking them on vacation), he has at times refused to take them out for ice cream because he pays CS but then goes months treating everyone to everything.  Remember I mentioned the bipolar?  I'm not just making that up he is diagnosed and medicated.  DD21 chalked this recent event with a manic phase.

A few more months and ODD is done with school- she graduates in June but still has a couple of summer classes.  Once that is over I will never need to discuss money and ODd with Bf ever again.

YDD is a freshman.  So three more years of it.  In Oregon, the amount of support received does not change when one kid ages out.  Next year when it is only one in college, I already told BF we should renegotiate how we split costs.  The full CS amount is way more than I would spend on one kid.  Not sure where this is coming from now.  Basically a month left of both of them in school at the same time.  Only expenses left for BF are a few months rent.

blah blah blah

Quoting pusheen-kitty: Idk. The mutual children you have with your ex are getting older, and it's impossible to shield them from everything. At some point, they are or will have to deal with dad directly. How they handle it, even if they do not handle it they way anyone wants, is kind of how they will handle it. I see this with my own younger siblings and how they deal with "The D word." One feels bad, one wants nothing to do with him and one is always the rainbow and unicorns type. Myself, I am more "clinical" in my "assessment." Even when confronted with facts , or what they can see with their own eyes is colored by some romanticized notion of what "dad" is. Frustrating, sure, but it's every coping mechanism good or bad known to man, and the only way to reconcile a parent as one gets older (for some). Like Cody said, regardless, CS and who pays what should never be brought up between parents and kids. They know dad pays some, and you pay the rest. How do they know how much you contribute? I guess eventually adult kids find out. I don't know.


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