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Poll

Question: Do you agree with it, or disagree?

Options:

I strongly agree

I strongly disagree

I am middle ways

I really don't care


Only group members can vote in this poll.

Total Votes: 163

View Results


by on Nov. 18, 2012 at 10:39 PM
Replies (121-130):
DixieFlower
by on Nov. 26, 2012 at 7:29 PM

Could you please provide a referance for the story you refer to? The only thing I've been able to come up with was where a B and B refused to allow a same sex couple to have their wedding reception at their establishment.

Quoting SlapItHigh:
Quoting Mel0dy: 
Quoting SlapItHigh:

I strongly disagree


May I ask why? How does it affect you if people of the same sex want to get maried?

Because marriage is only possible for one man and one woman.  In order for same sex marriage to exist, the definiton of marriage would have to be changed.  I do not agree that social pressure should change the meaning of a social institution that effects the greater good.  It's already effecting people.  One example, a family was sued and forced to pay $$$$$ for not allowing a same-sex marriage to take place at their religious bed and breakfast.  They had to go into debt and choose between becoming an accessory to mortal sin and risking their eternal salvation or shutting down their family business.  They chose the latter.


SlapItHigh
by on Nov. 27, 2012 at 8:51 AM

Yes, here is a reference to the story I'm referring to - http://www.christianpost.com/news/owners-of-vermonts-wildflower-inn-oppose-maines-same-sex-marriage-referndum-in-new-video-83747/

Quoting DixieFlower:

Could you please provide a referance for the story you refer to? The only thing I've been able to come up with was where a B and B refused to allow a same sex couple to have their wedding reception at their establishment.

Quoting SlapItHigh:
Quoting Mel0dy: 
Quoting SlapItHigh:

I strongly disagree


May I ask why? How does it affect you if people of the same sex want to get maried?

Because marriage is only possible for one man and one woman.  In order for same sex marriage to exist, the definiton of marriage would have to be changed.  I do not agree that social pressure should change the meaning of a social institution that effects the greater good.  It's already effecting people.  One example, a family was sued and forced to pay $$$$$ for not allowing a same-sex marriage to take place at their religious bed and breakfast.  They had to go into debt and choose between becoming an accessory to mortal sin and risking their eternal salvation or shutting down their family business.  They chose the latter.



SlapItHigh
by on Nov. 27, 2012 at 9:46 AM


Quoting Shelly126:

Quoting SlapItHigh:


Certainly beating someone over the head with a bible is not actually a physical beating, but a term......"bible beater" and no I didn't read anynof the links but not because I care not to but I don't have the time to devote to really reading the information, I have two 2yr olds that are sick and sneak in a bit of cafe mom here an there through the day. but I said I was catholic because it was implied that someone who is a Christian or Catholic should never be for same sex marriage and I do not believe that to be the case,I don't believe that I need to impose my religious beliefs on anyone else. Just as I don't believe you should speak for an entire religious group that may not feel the same way you do and do not believe their souls to be in peril because they are not pointing their finger at an entire group of people. And I have already stated I am not in any way swayed by popular opinion, while I may not enter into a gay relationship because I do not believe in it, or I have never or don't think I would ever have an abortion, I don't think that they should be illegal. I believe that in a diverse country with multicultres and religions it is impossible for the laws of the church to run the government. That has nothing to do with my faith nor does it sway my decisions on how I choose to live my life.

I was not talking about a physical beating over the head either.  I assume we were both talking metaphorically.  I appreciate you continuing to reiterate your position and trust me, I know all to well how you feel.  I have dedicated a significant part of my life over the past 6+ years to defending personal liberty.  That's how I came to CafeMom in the first place, when my Libertarian Moms group migrated here form Yahoo 5 or 6 years ago.  I was pro-same sex marriage, pro-choice and pro-anything that I didn't think harmed any other person.  As long as it's not infringing upon the rights of anyone else, who am I to say!?!  But oh how wrong I was!  I didn't realize how so many things affect a culture and go against objective moral law.  Reading the works of Catholic intellectuals has been extremely enlightening.  As the former Atheist in the video I linked earlier stated, you could spend 500 years reading from Catholic intellectuals and only scratch the surface -- it's that deep!  The way you and I were thinking is very surface and not grounded in anything objective.  This line of thinking has eroded society to the degree that it's now very easy to fall into this trap.  Now, although I have experienced a personal revolution, I am still very much pro-liberty and personal freedoms, I now have a better understanding of objective moral law and can no longer support same-sex marriage or legal abortion.  I'm still very much a 'live and let live' person.  But if we don't have objective law, we lose the work of the greater good of society.  Look around at these responses, no one in the 'pro' camp even knows how to define marriage.  It's become completely subjective and this type of attitude is easily swayed by society and culture.  

I hope that your children are feeling better soon!  My youngest is sick too.  When things calm down, if you ever do have time to read any of the links, let me know what you think.  It's intense, to put it mildly, to take Papal infallibility into consideration when reading the documents to which that applies.  Learning from Theology of the Body is probably going to be key to understanding everything.  Although Theology of the Body itself is quite a scholarly read!  There are plenty of other books dedicated to putting it in lay terms or at least condensing it to the point of starting with a foundation before digging into the full text.  Any who, as Catholics we are bound to certain things that others are not.  It truly is not a cafeteria where one can pick and choose and especially not on an issue such as this which is at the core of the foundation of faith.  I know that probably means nothing to you now b/c it didn't to me before, b/c I did not even understand the meaning of life.  Let me offer you one thing that may make you consider that there is truth to what I'm saying -- The Bible both begins and ends with a marriage.  I am eternally thankful to those who called on me to look into these things.  I feel like I've been set free even though I never realized the bondage I was in before.  My husband is very thankful too, as this has changed our marriage in profound ways.  

Aishamusty
by on Nov. 27, 2012 at 11:37 AM

Haram haram 

Shelly126
by Michele on Nov. 27, 2012 at 11:40 AM
Quoting SlapItHigh:


I appreciate your diligence and effort in providing these materials and believe me, I will give them a read and discuss them with my uncle, who is a literary and quite schooled in ancient texts, catholic texts and foreign texts. We often have quite profound discussions on life, God and the world. While I probably come across as a very liberal non schalont person who is just following the basics of what religion teaches, I am a very spiritual person, so reading these are definatly of interest to me. I will say that I am also a very sympathetic person and not so keen on some of the teachings of organized religion, even some of my own Catholic faith. I know how some things that have been interpreted by man have been changed or deleted, which is not only true for religion. Our own bible has been interpreted differently by other religions and some of their texts taken in a different way, so while I am a catholic and believe in most of it's practices and teachings I also don't take some things as literal or severe as they may be interpreted. There are many practices the catholic church has changed through the years for various reasons, and those man made laws, IMO are not the things I dedicate my life to following.
But like I said I am a very open person, I will read what you have sent me and perhaps dialog about it in the future.
Alyasa777
by on Nov. 27, 2012 at 1:34 PM

I strongly disagree.  It's funny how those who agree with it or feel that it's a matter of human rights conveniently forget that the Bible says that a Man should not lay with a man and a woman should not lay with a woman.  The Bible also calls this behavior an "abomination before God".  It's not a matter of rights.  I don't hate gay people or feel that they should be mistreated in any way, however I don't support their unnatural behavior.  The main purpose of marriage has always been procreation.  Two men or two women can't procreate.  Remember the whole story of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Bible?  Homosexuality and Beastiality are the reasons why God destroyed those two cities.

DixieFlower
by on Nov. 28, 2012 at 10:51 PM

Actually once the government governed over marriage it has become a matter of rights. Government laws are not to be based off of any one religion. Also if the main purpose of marriage is procreation does that mean any heterosexual couple that is infertile can not marry. Should all couples undergo fertility testing before being given a marriage license? I haven't forgotten what the Bible says. However, I also know that the laws of the land are not based on the Bible. Nor should they be. My personal beliefs are not what laws should be from. At one time people used the Bible as "proof" as to why interracial couples shouldn't be together much less get married. There are people to this day that still do.

Quoting Alyasa777:

I strongly disagree.  It's funny how those who agree with it or feel that it's a matter of human rights conveniently forget that the Bible says that a Man should not lay with a man and a woman should not lay with a woman.  The Bible also calls this behavior an "abomination before God".  It's not a matter of rights.  I don't hate gay people or feel that they should be mistreated in any way, however I don't support their unnatural behavior.  The main purpose of marriage has always been procreation.  Two men or two women can't procreate.  Remember the whole story of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Bible?  Homosexuality and Beastiality are the reasons why God destroyed those two cities.


supermomz25
by on Nov. 29, 2012 at 12:54 AM

 I completely agree. if two consenting adults love each other, I see no reason why they cannot and should not be allowed to be married. same sex marriage does not make my marriage any less valid.

ashleywagoner
by on Nov. 29, 2012 at 1:02 AM
To me, I feel like men and women were made to be together as man and wife. Homosexuality is against my religion, so I have grown up feeling it isn't natural or right. However, I do have a close family member who is gay and after watching Modern Family I have started feeling more open minded about the issue. I consider myself middle ways.
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
SlapItHigh
by on Nov. 29, 2012 at 5:54 AM


Quoting Shelly126:

Quoting SlapItHigh:


I appreciate your diligence and effort in providing these materials and believe me, I will give them a read and discuss them with my uncle, who is a literary and quite schooled in ancient texts, catholic texts and foreign texts. We often have quite profound discussions on life, God and the world. While I probably come across as a very liberal non schalont person who is just following the basics of what religion teaches, I am a very spiritual person, so reading these are definatly of interest to me. I will say that I am also a very sympathetic person and not so keen on some of the teachings of organized religion, even some of my own Catholic faith. I know how some things that have been interpreted by man have been changed or deleted, which is not only true for religion. Our own bible has been interpreted differently by other religions and some of their texts taken in a different way, so while I am a catholic and believe in most of it's practices and teachings I also don't take some things as literal or severe as they may be interpreted. There are many practices the catholic church has changed through the years for various reasons, and those man made laws, IMO are not the things I dedicate my life to following.
But like I said I am a very open person, I will read what you have sent me and perhaps dialog about it in the future.

I see what you are saying and I used to think the same way until I did more research on infallibility.  Per Scripture, the Catholic church is guided by The Holy Spirit so that it can never fail.  The Catholic church has never and will never change on doctrines of the church.  Small changes have been made when it comes to matters of discipline -- for example changing of the requirement to eat meat on Fridays.  This authority is granted in Matthew 18:18-19.  The Bible doesn't allow for one to take their own intepretation over the interpretations given from the church.  Members of the church are bound to believing the doctrines of the Church ("He who listens to you listens to me. He who rejects you rejects me and the one who sent me" [Luke 10:16]).  Doctrine is unchangeable.  The issue of same-sex marriage is not a man made law.  It's at the core of church doctrine.

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