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S/O of Should Christians Support Gay Marriage

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I am in a bit of a pickle, here. 

If I am not mistaken, and if the explanations I have been given by your fellow Christians is correct, the New Testament in your holy book is the part that commands your actions as a person of Christ, right?

Something about Jesus' having come to this world erased all of our sins? And because of that, we are to abide by his teachings? Someone please give me the whole story, here, and I will correct this last statement.

Anyway. If homosexuality is one of the many behaviors condemned by the Old Testament, right along with cutting one's hair, shaving, wearing clothes of mixed fabrics (you probably know this better than I do), why is this one singled out?

How do you know which parts of the bible you follow and believe? Is it blind faith in your minister's translation? Is there a hidden message in the New Testament that states gays are still to be persecuted? Or is it that you love the power it gives you over others?




Hey, I just realized my siggy looks like the gay flag/rainbow. LOL

LOVE THY NEIGHBOR. 

by on May. 10, 2012 at 9:26 PM
Replies (101-105):
jonellg
by on May. 11, 2012 at 12:30 PM
1 mom liked this

I find it impossible to follow their logic (if you wanna call it that)

Quoting wirehangers:


Quoting jonellg:

because christians pick and chose from the bible...

They definitely seem to be strengthening your point with every attempt at explaining themselves.


Piskie
by Silver Member on May. 11, 2012 at 12:33 PM


Quoting avonleafan:


Quoting wirehangers:


Quoting avonleafan:

Not trying to be hateful. IMO, it's a sin just like the other things I mentioned. My point is that you don't hate someone for lying or cheating, etc, even if it's something you considered to be wrong. I don't HATE gays, I simply disagree with their actions. For example, my son lied to me earlier today. Was he wrong? Yes. Did I like what he did? No. Do I hate him? ABSOLUTELY NOT. If he had come to me (he's five, so if he were to say anything like this, it'd be a long time off), and said, "Hey, Mom, I think I'm gay," would I be disappointed? Yes. Would I hate him? NOOOO. Because in my opinion, homosexuality is a sin just like the other things, and all sin is equal. One isn't worse than another. Yet people sometimes make it sound as if those who are against homosexuality are throwing stones, ready to run them out of town, when (oftentimes) we simply disagree with the actions. I am not referencing those who are extremists; I disagree with that just as much as the other things I mentioned.

Quoting wirehangers:


Quoting Anonymous:

I just have to say this...........I am a Christian, I believe in the Bible and it's truth, and I DON'T hate gays. It bothers me when people say that we 'hate' gays simply because we disagree with them. I don't HATE those who steal, lie, commit adultry, or even kill. Yet I disagree with those actions. Same with homosexuality. I might not disagree, but that doesn't mean I hate the gays. Stop making it sound like I want to stone you. Jesus tells us to love others, and that is what I try to do, whether I agree with them or not.

BTW, to address your question, I took the liberty of looking up some Scriptures to show that the NT does address homosexuality. Here is one:


Romans 1:26-27

English Standard Version (ESV)

26 For this reason A)" style="">God gave them up to B)" style="">dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, C)" style="">men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Why would you put being gay in the same category as lying,stealing,adultery,and murder?That does sound pretty hateful.


That's sad.Why would you be disappointed if your son was gay?Why is that disappointing?A kid being straight doesn't guarantee they will fulfill all the hopes and dreams you have for them.My oldest daughter is straight and my youngest is gay.That's who they are.Nothing to be disappointed about.Without using the bible can you tell me why being gay is a sin?Do you think being gay is a choice but straight people are just born that way?If yes then please explain.

I would be disappointed because, again, according to my beliefs, he would be choosing a lifestyle that is wrong, and I would want more for him than that. I know that when I do something wrong, I feel that there is something missing in my life. If he (or my other son, or my daughter), were to choose to be gay, they would know better and still do something they know to be wrong. I wouldn't be disappointed in what they do with their lives; homosexuals can be smart, successful, kind, loving, and other positive traits. I would be disappointed that they are being disobedient to God. There is a peace that comes only from being in God's will; I want, more than anything, to see them have peace and joy. I do believe that being gay is a choice. I think that the tendency is stronger in some people, but that they do choose to act upon those impulses. Just like everyone is born with certain sins with which they struggle. For some, it's homosexuality, IMO. As for proving it is a sin with a source other than the Bible, no, I can't. The Bible is where I get my truth. I don't need anything else because God has proved Himself to me so many times that there is no doubt in my mind He exists and that He wouldn't lead us astray. I know that you love your child, and I am sure that she is a great person with lots to offer the world, so please don't take what I have said as a diatribe against her. We simply believe differently.

I should add that I don't think being gay is a sin that will send you straight to hell. That is a common misconception. Jesus wants everyone to be saved, and will accept whoever will accept Him, no matter what they have done or said or thought. The ONLY thing that will keep you from heaven is disbelief in Him. I don't believe the Bible ever says that homosexuals will be damned. Jesus said whoever comes to Him, and accepts His way of salvation, will be saved. 

I can tell you right now, i didn't choose to be gay.

Those verses and the translation process leave a lot to be thought about, do you know the original terms and sociological meaning behind them?

Ayla-bellesmom
by Gold Member on May. 11, 2012 at 12:36 PM

Whether or not Christians should support gay marriage is irrelevant.

The point is that someone else's religious beliefs should not effect my own personal rights and freedoms.

You believe homosexuality is a sin? Great. I don't care. Divorce is also a sin, yet I don't see these same people lobbying to take away the right of non-religious heterosexuals to get divorced.

Religion has no place in government.


avonleafan
by on May. 11, 2012 at 2:35 PM

That is what you believe; I believe differently. I'm sure you are a lovely person, however. :) Off of the top of my head, no, I don't know the original terms/ meanings. I do have a Bible commentary which I could consult and from which I could get the answers, but I do not have the time today to get it from the box in the garage. If I look it up, I'll reply later, after the kids are settled.

Quoting Piskie:


Quoting avonleafan:


Quoting wirehangers:


Quoting avonleafan:

Not trying to be hateful. IMO, it's a sin just like the other things I mentioned. My point is that you don't hate someone for lying or cheating, etc, even if it's something you considered to be wrong. I don't HATE gays, I simply disagree with their actions. For example, my son lied to me earlier today. Was he wrong? Yes. Did I like what he did? No. Do I hate him? ABSOLUTELY NOT. If he had come to me (he's five, so if he were to say anything like this, it'd be a long time off), and said, "Hey, Mom, I think I'm gay," would I be disappointed? Yes. Would I hate him? NOOOO. Because in my opinion, homosexuality is a sin just like the other things, and all sin is equal. One isn't worse than another. Yet people sometimes make it sound as if those who are against homosexuality are throwing stones, ready to run them out of town, when (oftentimes) we simply disagree with the actions. I am not referencing those who are extremists; I disagree with that just as much as the other things I mentioned.

Quoting wirehangers:


Quoting Anonymous:

I just have to say this...........I am a Christian, I believe in the Bible and it's truth, and I DON'T hate gays. It bothers me when people say that we 'hate' gays simply because we disagree with them. I don't HATE those who steal, lie, commit adultry, or even kill. Yet I disagree with those actions. Same with homosexuality. I might not disagree, but that doesn't mean I hate the gays. Stop making it sound like I want to stone you. Jesus tells us to love others, and that is what I try to do, whether I agree with them or not.

BTW, to address your question, I took the liberty of looking up some Scriptures to show that the NT does address homosexuality. Here is one:


Romans 1:26-27

English Standard Version (ESV)

26 For this reason A)" style="">God gave them up to B)" style="">dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, C)" style="">men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Why would you put being gay in the same category as lying,stealing,adultery,and murder?That does sound pretty hateful.


That's sad.Why would you be disappointed if your son was gay?Why is that disappointing?A kid being straight doesn't guarantee they will fulfill all the hopes and dreams you have for them.My oldest daughter is straight and my youngest is gay.That's who they are.Nothing to be disappointed about.Without using the bible can you tell me why being gay is a sin?Do you think being gay is a choice but straight people are just born that way?If yes then please explain.

I would be disappointed because, again, according to my beliefs, he would be choosing a lifestyle that is wrong, and I would want more for him than that. I know that when I do something wrong, I feel that there is something missing in my life. If he (or my other son, or my daughter), were to choose to be gay, they would know better and still do something they know to be wrong. I wouldn't be disappointed in what they do with their lives; homosexuals can be smart, successful, kind, loving, and other positive traits. I would be disappointed that they are being disobedient to God. There is a peace that comes only from being in God's will; I want, more than anything, to see them have peace and joy. I do believe that being gay is a choice. I think that the tendency is stronger in some people, but that they do choose to act upon those impulses. Just like everyone is born with certain sins with which they struggle. For some, it's homosexuality, IMO. As for proving it is a sin with a source other than the Bible, no, I can't. The Bible is where I get my truth. I don't need anything else because God has proved Himself to me so many times that there is no doubt in my mind He exists and that He wouldn't lead us astray. I know that you love your child, and I am sure that she is a great person with lots to offer the world, so please don't take what I have said as a diatribe against her. We simply believe differently.

I should add that I don't think being gay is a sin that will send you straight to hell. That is a common misconception. Jesus wants everyone to be saved, and will accept whoever will accept Him, no matter what they have done or said or thought. The ONLY thing that will keep you from heaven is disbelief in Him. I don't believe the Bible ever says that homosexuals will be damned. Jesus said whoever comes to Him, and accepts His way of salvation, will be saved. 

I can tell you right now, i didn't choose to be gay.

Those verses and the translation process leave a lot to be thought about, do you know the original terms and sociological meaning behind them?


avonleafan
by on May. 11, 2012 at 2:45 PM

That is what you believe; I believe differently. I'm sure you are a lovely person, however. :) I do have a Bible commentary from which I draw a lot of information; however, it is with a box of books in the garage which I am unable to reach right now. I got this off of one site online; I hope it helps a little. 

1:26-27 Paul repeats his refrain: God gave them over… to their dishonorable passions (pavqh ajtimiva",pathe atimias). God gave them over to go against the created order and design. The thought of such judgment is horrifying since the people are totally unaware of it.

And again, there is the centrality of sexual sin, though this time homosexuality, which was rampant and honored in Greco-Roman culture, is particularly singled out: their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones and likewise the men (ai{ te gaVr qhvleiai aujtw'n methvllaxan thVn fusikhVn crh'sin eij" thVn paraV fuvsin, 27oJmoivw" te kaiV oiJ a[rsene"hai te gar theleiai auton metellaxan ten phusiken chresin eis ten paraphusinhomoios te kai hoi arsenes).

The concept of “exchanging” links verse 26 with verse 25 and verse 23 where the same idea is found. People could not stomach the truth about God so they sought to exchange it for a lie in order to accommodate their sinful desires and lifestyles. Note: The reason women are mentioned first is difficult to say for certain, though it is unlikely to have any connection to Genesis 3 and the fact that Eve sinned first. It may be that they are placed up front for emphasis, since Paul was more shocked that woman, the more modest of the sexes, should also engage in homosexuality. This, however, is simply conjecture.

The expression inflamed in their passions (ejxekauvqhsan ejn th~/ ojrevxei aujtw~nexekauthesan en teorexei auton) is a strong expression that once having left the proper course given in the created order, men “burned with intense desire” to be sexually involved with other men in shameless acts. One cannot help but think of the men of Sodom and Gomorrah who burned with passion to have sex with Lot’s two guests (Genesis 19:1-11).27

But there are consequences for such perversion. Paul says they received in themselves the due penalty for their error (thVn ajntimisqivan h}n e[dei th~" plavnh" aujtw~n ejn eJautoi`" ajpolambavnonte"tenantimisthian hen edei tes planes auton en heautois apolambanontes). God could not simply allow man to suppress the knowledge of him and attempt to replace it with idolatrous notions and sexual immorality. There must be punishment for such actions. The penalty, then, for such error or wandering from God, was to give men and women over increasingly to the experience of their own unsatisfying lusts. The experience of internal torment and futility which results is agonizing, and if repentance is not sought, the end is disastrous.

Quoting Piskie:


Quoting avonleafan:


Quoting wirehangers:


Quoting avonleafan:

Not trying to be hateful. IMO, it's a sin just like the other things I mentioned. My point is that you don't hate someone for lying or cheating, etc, even if it's something you considered to be wrong. I don't HATE gays, I simply disagree with their actions. For example, my son lied to me earlier today. Was he wrong? Yes. Did I like what he did? No. Do I hate him? ABSOLUTELY NOT. If he had come to me (he's five, so if he were to say anything like this, it'd be a long time off), and said, "Hey, Mom, I think I'm gay," would I be disappointed? Yes. Would I hate him? NOOOO. Because in my opinion, homosexuality is a sin just like the other things, and all sin is equal. One isn't worse than another. Yet people sometimes make it sound as if those who are against homosexuality are throwing stones, ready to run them out of town, when (oftentimes) we simply disagree with the actions. I am not referencing those who are extremists; I disagree with that just as much as the other things I mentioned.

Quoting wirehangers:


Quoting Anonymous:

I just have to say this...........I am a Christian, I believe in the Bible and it's truth, and I DON'T hate gays. It bothers me when people say that we 'hate' gays simply because we disagree with them. I don't HATE those who steal, lie, commit adultry, or even kill. Yet I disagree with those actions. Same with homosexuality. I might not disagree, but that doesn't mean I hate the gays. Stop making it sound like I want to stone you. Jesus tells us to love others, and that is what I try to do, whether I agree with them or not.

BTW, to address your question, I took the liberty of looking up some Scriptures to show that the NT does address homosexuality. Here is one:


Romans 1:26-27

English Standard Version (ESV)

26 For this reason A)" style="">God gave them up to B)" style="">dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, C)" style="">men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Why would you put being gay in the same category as lying,stealing,adultery,and murder?That does sound pretty hateful.


That's sad.Why would you be disappointed if your son was gay?Why is that disappointing?A kid being straight doesn't guarantee they will fulfill all the hopes and dreams you have for them.My oldest daughter is straight and my youngest is gay.That's who they are.Nothing to be disappointed about.Without using the bible can you tell me why being gay is a sin?Do you think being gay is a choice but straight people are just born that way?If yes then please explain.

I would be disappointed because, again, according to my beliefs, he would be choosing a lifestyle that is wrong, and I would want more for him than that. I know that when I do something wrong, I feel that there is something missing in my life. If he (or my other son, or my daughter), were to choose to be gay, they would know better and still do something they know to be wrong. I wouldn't be disappointed in what they do with their lives; homosexuals can be smart, successful, kind, loving, and other positive traits. I would be disappointed that they are being disobedient to God. There is a peace that comes only from being in God's will; I want, more than anything, to see them have peace and joy. I do believe that being gay is a choice. I think that the tendency is stronger in some people, but that they do choose to act upon those impulses. Just like everyone is born with certain sins with which they struggle. For some, it's homosexuality, IMO. As for proving it is a sin with a source other than the Bible, no, I can't. The Bible is where I get my truth. I don't need anything else because God has proved Himself to me so many times that there is no doubt in my mind He exists and that He wouldn't lead us astray. I know that you love your child, and I am sure that she is a great person with lots to offer the world, so please don't take what I have said as a diatribe against her. We simply believe differently.

I should add that I don't think being gay is a sin that will send you straight to hell. That is a common misconception. Jesus wants everyone to be saved, and will accept whoever will accept Him, no matter what they have done or said or thought. The ONLY thing that will keep you from heaven is disbelief in Him. I don't believe the Bible ever says that homosexuals will be damned. Jesus said whoever comes to Him, and accepts His way of salvation, will be saved. 

I can tell you right now, i didn't choose to be gay.

Those verses and the translation process leave a lot to be thought about, do you know the original terms and sociological meaning behind them?


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