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Pro-life / Pro-choice *******EDIT!

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Who in their right mind would murder an innocent baby?? This pisses me off. If you are going to spread your legs and make it then you should have to either raise it or let someone who values life adopt it.

Anyone who has an abortion needs to be tortured theirself. It breaks my heart to see these women and or teenagers having sex and not owning up and taking responsibilitiy.

Agree?


EDIT****** NO! Im not saying if you get raped or have medical reasons that abortion still shouldnt be an option. Im talking about women that OPENLY have sex and KNOW the results that can come of it. &By being tortured I mean the women who continue to have abortions knowing what could happen and ARE NOT raped. Being raped is a whole different story. I feel so bad for anyone that was raped and my heart goes out to them.  

No, my spelling isnt all correct. I was mobile and my phone has auto-correct. 

by on Jul. 20, 2012 at 4:41 PM
Replies (321-330):
jessi2girls
by Ruby Member on Jul. 23, 2012 at 7:45 PM

SO.. torturing people is your answer?

Seriously, you are a very sick person, step away from the volunteering you do because in a few short years you are going to start pulling tongues out of these same people you think you are helping..

You really, truly, should just take yourself to a secluded island, somewhere, and never return.

You sit there and say, "let someone who values life adopt it"..

YOU think YOU value live???? When you're ready to step up and torture it?

Get some help! Seriously!!! Stay away from the kids you work with, because you are doing them a disservice with your poisonous thoughts!!!


Quoting insaneygolover:

  If you are going to spread your legs and make it then you should have to either raise it or let someone who values life adopt it.

Anyone who has an abortion needs to be tortured theirself. It breaks my heart to see these women and or teenagers having sex and not owning up and taking responsibilitiy.


 

I agree with this part...100%. But I also beilve that women who do get abortions have to go through some kind of torture. Because of guilt or other thing, for not medical reasons or rape...but for the simple fact of opening their legs not being careful and getting an abortion because "its not convient" And torture is not murder. I do not know where you got that conception.

Quoting jessi2girls:

Funny, because your first comment was that you agree 100% with the OP..

torture to those that have had abortions, that it's murder (for something to be murder it has to be illegal, therefore it IS very much a legal issue), and so on...

Now, you are saying you don't want it to be a legal issue really, right now..

and are backing out..

If you have a conviction to something, you stick to it.. clearly you've either realized the errors in your previous convictions, and are seeing how messy it really is on the otherside of the fence, or ....... that's for you to decide..

but if you are in it 100%.. why back out?

Quoting insaneygolover:

 And I don't want it to be illegal because its not plausible right now...maybe when we do make a technology to sort out the liars... And right now my hands are full with vollunteering at the Zebra center for abused children.

Quoting jessi2girls:

Someone asked you if you thought it should be illegal, and you gave 4 scenerios where you would wish there to be exceptions, thus assuming the rest you believe should be illegal..

When someone asks about the legality of something, obviously they are discussing laws..

so let's exam, in your perfect world if you could make up the laws, the issues with your new "laws"

1-So, the woman should spend a year in prison if she has no other reason for aborting other than she didnt' feel like having a baby. How are you going to differentiate between these women and other situations? How about the doctor that administered the abortion? What's he charged with? Do you think doctors would be willing to continue preforming abortions, even if they are necessary when they could possible face jail time without a paper trail of proof? Because trust me, proof is NOT easily obtainable.. and no doctor wants to loose their licence... what would you do with the rise of dumpster babies?

2-I'm not saying a woman that lies about it isn't a cunt.. I've been raped to, but that doesn't mean there aren't women out there who wouldn't do. Women do it NOW to avoid things like having their father pissed off for having sex with so and so..and again, the polygraph is a joke! There is no way to prove who is lying and who is not..

3-And what would be defined as high risk or life threatening?  You seem to think it's so simple to just say, well this is now high risk.. it's not when it comes to an issue such as this..what's admissable? Being overweight is risky during a pregnancy, so all fat people have a right to abort? You need to be more clearer here dear.. because a blanket statement like that isn't one a doctor is going to accept when their license to practice medicine is on the line, and this could be the difference between a mothing living and dying..

4-LMAO the polygraph again? Seriously that is NOT a way to test truthfulness.. SO, again you are left with having to get a court order, police report, or restraining order.. verbal abuse won't fly for the court order or police report or restraining order.. unless it's racist. in which case you'd need a witness, which likely aren't going to step forward.. use you brain here.. HOW are you going to regulate these issues? Because so far your responses have so many holes, and issues, it's honestly a joke!

5-Again, and have the doctor put his license on the line? Or the parents face jail time? Sorry, doesn't work that way.. you have to have SPECIFICS so there aren't loop holes and so a doctor isn't a risk for loosing his license in these situation... and of course so the parents dont' face jail time for what could be determined as falsified information.

6-cheaper condoms are then made cheaper and less reliable.. how is that benefiting anyone? Making them more readily available through programs that can distribute them to people who can't afford them would have been a better response. But of course that need funding. How are YOU going to come up with a way to help said funding? Raise taxes? Donations? Do you, by anychance donate to an organization that does this already in your community? No?

Define sex education? What's required for the course? Teaching abstinance only? Teaching just about how the egg meets the sperm? Because that's not reliable sex education. You need specifics, contraceptive failure rates, knowing that condoms are NOT anywhere close to being 100% effective in preventing STD's, Frequent testing for STD's, where to go for help, etc.. 

As for back alley clinics, yes of course they are unsafe.. but if you have to go through all the shit you seem to want to put them through to prove their not lying, it's 1-affordable, compared to what they'd otherwise have to pay, 2-available.. (trust me, once you start putting out laws that outlaw abortions with exceptions, not a lot of doctors are going to touch those abortions, even if the person could be telling the truth). So where are these women going to turn? To what's available.

And who makes out here? A bunch of scum bags who aren't medically licensed, making money off torturing women. While you have women who are coming away sick, or even dead.. is that really what you want for a lesson learned? She's raped, can't prove it, and now she's dead, because of some laws like these?

You really need to see the big picture.. while in a fairy tale land, sure that would be great, the reality is, your ideas, wouldn't work for shit in the real world.

You want to know how you fight against abortions? YOU get involved.. YOU help promote better sex education course, YOU help with funding for contraceptives, YOU HELP! 

Sitting here saying.. oh this would be nice, isn't going to change abortions.. you want them reduced.. go out there and do something about it..

That's the problem with a lot of pro-lifer's.. they are all for making it illegal, thinking it will solve all the problems.. but have them get involved in actively reducing the numbers of abortions preformed? most of them, just keep holding up a sign calling other's murderers, and shit like the OP is saying, THAT is there idea of being activily involved.. now tell me, is a sign going to reduce abortion numbers?

Or is getting involved going to?

(Note, I didn't say ALL pro-lifers, some actually are active, but they are few and far between).



Quoting insaneygolover:

 Arg, I thought this question was based on moral values not laws. For the record, if a motion was passed to outlaw abortions I would be against it...btw I did edit it in another answer and if the baby's life is in danger I do think it is acceptable to terminate the pregnancy.

1. If a women uses abortion as a birth control method (no other reason...oh its not the right time now excuse is bullshit) they should spend at least one year in prison.  

2. I've been raped, any person who lies about being raped is a cunt, especially if she names a person. So yes I would fear it, which is why when another person asked me this I suggested a polygraph.

3. If the mother has been told the pregnancy is high risk and her life or the baby's life is in danger by a doctor, that's where the line is drawn. After that if a women continues on with the pregnancy that's at her disgression.

4. Abusive situation is when the woman is 1. sexually abused, 2. Verbally abused or 3. Physically abused and she cannot get out of the situation on her own. If need be a polygraph can be given.

5. That's at the parents and doctors disgression, as I have stated before. Because there are many pregnancies that the baby tests postive for disorders and such and they test turns out to be a false positive or it has turned out worse than they originally thought...

6. Cheaper condoms, sex education (here is mandatory in order to pass high school), as for back alley abortions, they are probably unsafe and if a women is that desperate and something does wrong, well hopefully she leaarns her lesson.

Quoting jessi2girls:

question: (well a few)

1- IF we were to impliment a law, station abortion was illegal except for the exceptions you listed below.. how would you regulate them?

2- Wouldn't you fear women that didn't care about others, lying just to get the abortion done? Such as claiming to have been raped? Or even going so far as to name a person who she says raped her (even though it didn't happen), just to get the procedure (assuming you'd need to press charges to get one).. so now you'd have "Sara" pissed off at her ex "jonny" because he left her and now she just found out she's pregnant, so pins it on him, and he's fucked for life, a registered sex offender, possible jail time.. just because she was pissed and didn't want the baby...

3-How would you determine when the mother's life is at risk?  There are a lot of pregnancies that are considered high risk, but not necessarily life threatening, so where do we draw the line?

4-How do you define abusive situation? Would you need a court order, or restraining order, or police report? Again, wouldn't you run into the same problem as with rape, with people lying, again, just to have it done?

5- How would you determine the line for illness/disease for a baby in the womb?

6- How do you propose trying to reduce unwanted pregnancy, to reduce issues like back alley clinics, and people lying about their condition, etc?

Quoting insaneygolover:

 Actually I have 4 sinarios where its ok

1. Mother's life in danger

2. Women is raped and mentally cannot carry the baby without killing herself even with support and counciling

3. A baby will be born into an abusive situation and mom cannot give it up for adoption (ex. state laws, father refuses to sign etc.)

4. A baby has a severe deformity/illness that is life threating. Its at the parents disgression whether or not to abort, and I know that is widely debated...I personally will not abort if the child has autism, but may abort if the child is born without eyes AND is deaf. Either-or I could cope with but not both. But I would look into adoption for a family who could...

Quoting LoriLou75:

Just to clarify.... Do you think abotion should be illegal, with an exception ONLY for the mothers life being eminently at risk? Or Do you believe something else??

Quoting insaneygolover:

 Not really. But in this day and age if the mom doesnn't want a high risk pregnancy she will abort.


I was really sick with my pregnancy, I was 18 and I didn't abort.


Quoting LoriLou75:

So it's only ok if the mother will die, she shouldn't be able to abort if the pregnancy would effect her health negatively in other ways, or is just high risk?


Quoting insaneygolover:


 1. Mother dies she cannot have any future kids



2. Mother dies, baby dies too



This is a lose-lose situation.



Quoting LoriLou75:



why THEN is a mothers life more valuble than a "baby's"?



Quoting insaneygolover:



 agree 100%, the only time is when the mother's life is in danger.



 






 


 

 


 


 


 


honeyrder
by Platinum Member on Jul. 23, 2012 at 7:46 PM

That's so hard to believe since you think some people should be tortured. Impossible, in fact, you hypocrite.

Quoting lakenxoxo67:

Who in their right mind would murder an innocent baby?? This pisses me off. If you are going to spread your legs and make it then you should have to either raise it or let someone who values life adopt it.

Anyone who has an abortion needs to be tortured theirself. It breaks my heart to see these women and or teenagers having sex and not owning up and taking responsibilitiy.

Agree?


EDIT****** NO! Im not saying if you get raped or have medical reasons that abortion still shouldnt be an option. Im talking about women that OPENLY have sex and KNOW the results that can come of it. &By being tortured I mean the women who continue to have abortions knowing what could happen and ARE NOT raped. Being raped is a whole different story. I feel so bad for anyone that was raped and my heart goes out to them.  

No, my spelling isnt all correct. I was mobile and my phone has auto-correct. 


jessi2girls
by Ruby Member on Jul. 23, 2012 at 7:46 PM

Someone should torture the stupid right out of your head

Quoting insaneygolover:

 If you got them for non-medical, non-rape reasons and you don't feel an ounce of guilt. Then yes, you should go through some kind of torture.

Quoting AquarianPath:

 So, I should be "tortured" for having two abortions? How should I be tortured? Feel free to move to a different country that allows for fascism and other's ideologies to run your life.

Quoting insaneygolover:

  If you are going to spread your legs and make it then you should have to either raise it or let someone who values life adopt it.

Anyone who has an abortion needs to be tortured theirself. It breaks my heart to see these women and or teenagers having sex and not owning up and taking responsibilitiy.


 

I agree with this part...100%. But I also beilve that women who do get abortions have to go through some kind of torture. Because of guilt or other thing, for not medical reasons or rape...but for the simple fact of opening their legs not being careful and getting an abortion because "its not convient" And torture is not murder. I do not know where you got that conception.

Quoting jessi2girls:

Funny, because your first comment was that you agree 100% with the OP..

torture to those that have had abortions, that it's murder (for something to be murder it has to be illegal, therefore it IS very much a legal issue), and so on...

Now, you are saying you don't want it to be a legal issue really, right now..

and are backing out..

If you have a conviction to something, you stick to it.. clearly you've either realized the errors in your previous convictions, and are seeing how messy it really is on the otherside of the fence, or ....... that's for you to decide..

but if you are in it 100%.. why back out?

Quoting insaneygolover:

 And I don't want it to be illegal because its not plausible right now...maybe when we do make a technology to sort out the liars... And right now my hands are full with vollunteering at the Zebra center for abused children.

Quoting jessi2girls:

Someone asked you if you thought it should be illegal, and you gave 4 scenerios where you would wish there to be exceptions, thus assuming the rest you believe should be illegal..

When someone asks about the legality of something, obviously they are discussing laws..

so let's exam, in your perfect world if you could make up the laws, the issues with your new "laws"

1-So, the woman should spend a year in prison if she has no other reason for aborting other than she didnt' feel like having a baby. How are you going to differentiate between these women and other situations? How about the doctor that administered the abortion? What's he charged with? Do you think doctors would be willing to continue preforming abortions, even if they are necessary when they could possible face jail time without a paper trail of proof? Because trust me, proof is NOT easily obtainable.. and no doctor wants to loose their licence... what would you do with the rise of dumpster babies?

2-I'm not saying a woman that lies about it isn't a cunt.. I've been raped to, but that doesn't mean there aren't women out there who wouldn't do. Women do it NOW to avoid things like having their father pissed off for having sex with so and so..and again, the polygraph is a joke! There is no way to prove who is lying and who is not..

3-And what would be defined as high risk or life threatening?  You seem to think it's so simple to just say, well this is now high risk.. it's not when it comes to an issue such as this..what's admissable? Being overweight is risky during a pregnancy, so all fat people have a right to abort? You need to be more clearer here dear.. because a blanket statement like that isn't one a doctor is going to accept when their license to practice medicine is on the line, and this could be the difference between a mothing living and dying..

4-LMAO the polygraph again? Seriously that is NOT a way to test truthfulness.. SO, again you are left with having to get a court order, police report, or restraining order.. verbal abuse won't fly for the court order or police report or restraining order.. unless it's racist. in which case you'd need a witness, which likely aren't going to step forward.. use you brain here.. HOW are you going to regulate these issues? Because so far your responses have so many holes, and issues, it's honestly a joke!

5-Again, and have the doctor put his license on the line? Or the parents face jail time? Sorry, doesn't work that way.. you have to have SPECIFICS so there aren't loop holes and so a doctor isn't a risk for loosing his license in these situation... and of course so the parents dont' face jail time for what could be determined as falsified information.

6-cheaper condoms are then made cheaper and less reliable.. how is that benefiting anyone? Making them more readily available through programs that can distribute them to people who can't afford them would have been a better response. But of course that need funding. How are YOU going to come up with a way to help said funding? Raise taxes? Donations? Do you, by anychance donate to an organization that does this already in your community? No?

Define sex education? What's required for the course? Teaching abstinance only? Teaching just about how the egg meets the sperm? Because that's not reliable sex education. You need specifics, contraceptive failure rates, knowing that condoms are NOT anywhere close to being 100% effective in preventing STD's, Frequent testing for STD's, where to go for help, etc.. 

As for back alley clinics, yes of course they are unsafe.. but if you have to go through all the shit you seem to want to put them through to prove their not lying, it's 1-affordable, compared to what they'd otherwise have to pay, 2-available.. (trust me, once you start putting out laws that outlaw abortions with exceptions, not a lot of doctors are going to touch those abortions, even if the person could be telling the truth). So where are these women going to turn? To what's available.

And who makes out here? A bunch of scum bags who aren't medically licensed, making money off torturing women. While you have women who are coming away sick, or even dead.. is that really what you want for a lesson learned? She's raped, can't prove it, and now she's dead, because of some laws like these?

You really need to see the big picture.. while in a fairy tale land, sure that would be great, the reality is, your ideas, wouldn't work for shit in the real world.

You want to know how you fight against abortions? YOU get involved.. YOU help promote better sex education course, YOU help with funding for contraceptives, YOU HELP! 

Sitting here saying.. oh this would be nice, isn't going to change abortions.. you want them reduced.. go out there and do something about it..

That's the problem with a lot of pro-lifer's.. they are all for making it illegal, thinking it will solve all the problems.. but have them get involved in actively reducing the numbers of abortions preformed? most of them, just keep holding up a sign calling other's murderers, and shit like the OP is saying, THAT is there idea of being activily involved.. now tell me, is a sign going to reduce abortion numbers?

Or is getting involved going to?

(Note, I didn't say ALL pro-lifers, some actually are active, but they are few and far between).



Quoting insaneygolover:

 Arg, I thought this question was based on moral values not laws. For the record, if a motion was passed to outlaw abortions I would be against it...btw I did edit it in another answer and if the baby's life is in danger I do think it is acceptable to terminate the pregnancy.

1. If a women uses abortion as a birth control method (no other reason...oh its not the right time now excuse is bullshit) they should spend at least one year in prison.  

2. I've been raped, any person who lies about being raped is a cunt, especially if she names a person. So yes I would fear it, which is why when another person asked me this I suggested a polygraph.

3. If the mother has been told the pregnancy is high risk and her life or the baby's life is in danger by a doctor, that's where the line is drawn. After that if a women continues on with the pregnancy that's at her disgression.

4. Abusive situation is when the woman is 1. sexually abused, 2. Verbally abused or 3. Physically abused and she cannot get out of the situation on her own. If need be a polygraph can be given.

5. That's at the parents and doctors disgression, as I have stated before. Because there are many pregnancies that the baby tests postive for disorders and such and they test turns out to be a false positive or it has turned out worse than they originally thought...

6. Cheaper condoms, sex education (here is mandatory in order to pass high school), as for back alley abortions, they are probably unsafe and if a women is that desperate and something does wrong, well hopefully she leaarns her lesson.

Quoting jessi2girls:

question: (well a few)

1- IF we were to impliment a law, station abortion was illegal except for the exceptions you listed below.. how would you regulate them?

2- Wouldn't you fear women that didn't care about others, lying just to get the abortion done? Such as claiming to have been raped? Or even going so far as to name a person who she says raped her (even though it didn't happen), just to get the procedure (assuming you'd need to press charges to get one).. so now you'd have "Sara" pissed off at her ex "jonny" because he left her and now she just found out she's pregnant, so pins it on him, and he's fucked for life, a registered sex offender, possible jail time.. just because she was pissed and didn't want the baby...

3-How would you determine when the mother's life is at risk?  There are a lot of pregnancies that are considered high risk, but not necessarily life threatening, so where do we draw the line?

4-How do you define abusive situation? Would you need a court order, or restraining order, or police report? Again, wouldn't you run into the same problem as with rape, with people lying, again, just to have it done?

5- How would you determine the line for illness/disease for a baby in the womb?

6- How do you propose trying to reduce unwanted pregnancy, to reduce issues like back alley clinics, and people lying about their condition, etc?

Quoting insaneygolover:

 Actually I have 4 sinarios where its ok

1. Mother's life in danger

2. Women is raped and mentally cannot carry the baby without killing herself even with support and counciling

3. A baby will be born into an abusive situation and mom cannot give it up for adoption (ex. state laws, father refuses to sign etc.)

4. A baby has a severe deformity/illness that is life threating. Its at the parents disgression whether or not to abort, and I know that is widely debated...I personally will not abort if the child has autism, but may abort if the child is born without eyes AND is deaf. Either-or I could cope with but not both. But I would look into adoption for a family who could...

Quoting LoriLou75:

Just to clarify.... Do you think abotion should be illegal, with an exception ONLY for the mothers life being eminently at risk? Or Do you believe something else??

Quoting insaneygolover:

 Not really. But in this day and age if the mom doesnn't want a high risk pregnancy she will abort.


I was really sick with my pregnancy, I was 18 and I didn't abort.


Quoting LoriLou75:

So it's only ok if the mother will die, she shouldn't be able to abort if the pregnancy would effect her health negatively in other ways, or is just high risk?


Quoting insaneygolover:


 1. Mother dies she cannot have any future kids



2. Mother dies, baby dies too



This is a lose-lose situation.



Quoting LoriLou75:



why THEN is a mothers life more valuble than a "baby's"?



Quoting insaneygolover:



 agree 100%, the only time is when the mother's life is in danger.



 






 


 

 


 


 


 

 

 


Anonymous
by Anonymous 26 on Jul. 23, 2012 at 7:48 PM
I had an abortion for non-medical, non-rape reasons. I had an IUD but got pregnant anyway. I didn't feel any guilt whatsoever. I didn't want a baby and didn't want to be pregnant (hence the IUD). I was relieved.

How should I be tortured.


Quoting insaneygolover:

 If you got them for non-medical, non-rape reasons and you don't feel an ounce of guilt. Then yes, you should go through some kind of torture.


Quoting AquarianPath:


 So, I should be "tortured" for having two abortions? How should I be tortured? Feel free to move to a different country that allows for fascism and other's ideologies to run your life.


Quoting insaneygolover:


  If you are going to spread your legs and make it then you should have to either raise it or let someone who values life adopt it.

Anyone who has an abortion needs to be tortured theirself. It breaks my heart to see these women and or teenagers having sex and not owning up and taking responsibilitiy.



 


I agree with this part...100%. But I also beilve that women who do get abortions have to go through some kind of torture. Because of guilt or other thing, for not medical reasons or rape...but for the simple fact of opening their legs not being careful and getting an abortion because "its not convient" And torture is not murder. I do not know where you got that conception.


Quoting jessi2girls:


Funny, because your first comment was that you agree 100% with the OP..


torture to those that have had abortions, that it's murder (for something to be murder it has to be illegal, therefore it IS very much a legal issue), and so on...


Now, you are saying you don't want it to be a legal issue really, right now..


and are backing out..


If you have a conviction to something, you stick to it.. clearly you've either realized the errors in your previous convictions, and are seeing how messy it really is on the otherside of the fence, or ....... that's for you to decide..


but if you are in it 100%.. why back out?


Quoting insaneygolover:


 And I don't want it to be illegal because its not plausible right now...maybe when we do make a technology to sort out the liars... And right now my hands are full with vollunteering at the Zebra center for abused children.


Quoting jessi2girls:


Someone asked you if you thought it should be illegal, and you gave 4 scenerios where you would wish there to be exceptions, thus assuming the rest you believe should be illegal..


When someone asks about the legality of something, obviously they are discussing laws..


so let's exam, in your perfect world if you could make up the laws, the issues with your new "laws"


1-So, the woman should spend a year in prison if she has no other reason for aborting other than she didnt' feel like having a baby. How are you going to differentiate between these women and other situations? How about the doctor that administered the abortion? What's he charged with? Do you think doctors would be willing to continue preforming abortions, even if they are necessary when they could possible face jail time without a paper trail of proof? Because trust me, proof is NOT easily obtainable.. and no doctor wants to loose their licence... what would you do with the rise of dumpster babies?


2-I'm not saying a woman that lies about it isn't a cunt.. I've been raped to, but that doesn't mean there aren't women out there who wouldn't do. Women do it NOW to avoid things like having their father pissed off for having sex with so and so..and again, the polygraph is a joke! There is no way to prove who is lying and who is not..


3-And what would be defined as high risk or life threatening?  You seem to think it's so simple to just say, well this is now high risk.. it's not when it comes to an issue such as this..what's admissable? Being overweight is risky during a pregnancy, so all fat people have a right to abort? You need to be more clearer here dear.. because a blanket statement like that isn't one a doctor is going to accept when their license to practice medicine is on the line, and this could be the difference between a mothing living and dying..


4-LMAO the polygraph again? Seriously that is NOT a way to test truthfulness.. SO, again you are left with having to get a court order, police report, or restraining order.. verbal abuse won't fly for the court order or police report or restraining order.. unless it's racist. in which case you'd need a witness, which likely aren't going to step forward.. use you brain here.. HOW are you going to regulate these issues? Because so far your responses have so many holes, and issues, it's honestly a joke!


5-Again, and have the doctor put his license on the line? Or the parents face jail time? Sorry, doesn't work that way.. you have to have SPECIFICS so there aren't loop holes and so a doctor isn't a risk for loosing his license in these situation... and of course so the parents dont' face jail time for what could be determined as falsified information.


6-cheaper condoms are then made cheaper and less reliable.. how is that benefiting anyone? Making them more readily available through programs that can distribute them to people who can't afford them would have been a better response. But of course that need funding. How are YOU going to come up with a way to help said funding? Raise taxes? Donations? Do you, by anychance donate to an organization that does this already in your community? No?


Define sex education? What's required for the course? Teaching abstinance only? Teaching just about how the egg meets the sperm? Because that's not reliable sex education. You need specifics, contraceptive failure rates, knowing that condoms are NOT anywhere close to being 100% effective in preventing STD's, Frequent testing for STD's, where to go for help, etc.. 


As for back alley clinics, yes of course they are unsafe.. but if you have to go through all the shit you seem to want to put them through to prove their not lying, it's 1-affordable, compared to what they'd otherwise have to pay, 2-available.. (trust me, once you start putting out laws that outlaw abortions with exceptions, not a lot of doctors are going to touch those abortions, even if the person could be telling the truth). So where are these women going to turn? To what's available.


And who makes out here? A bunch of scum bags who aren't medically licensed, making money off torturing women. While you have women who are coming away sick, or even dead.. is that really what you want for a lesson learned? She's raped, can't prove it, and now she's dead, because of some laws like these?


You really need to see the big picture.. while in a fairy tale land, sure that would be great, the reality is, your ideas, wouldn't work for shit in the real world.


You want to know how you fight against abortions? YOU get involved.. YOU help promote better sex education course, YOU help with funding for contraceptives, YOU HELP! 


Sitting here saying.. oh this would be nice, isn't going to change abortions.. you want them reduced.. go out there and do something about it..


That's the problem with a lot of pro-lifer's.. they are all for making it illegal, thinking it will solve all the problems.. but have them get involved in actively reducing the numbers of abortions preformed? most of them, just keep holding up a sign calling other's murderers, and shit like the OP is saying, THAT is there idea of being activily involved.. now tell me, is a sign going to reduce abortion numbers?


Or is getting involved going to?


(Note, I didn't say ALL pro-lifers, some actually are active, but they are few and far between).






Quoting insaneygolover:


 Arg, I thought this question was based on moral values not laws. For the record, if a motion was passed to outlaw abortions I would be against it...btw I did edit it in another answer and if the baby's life is in danger I do think it is acceptable to terminate the pregnancy.


1. If a women uses abortion as a birth control method (no other reason...oh its not the right time now excuse is bullshit) they should spend at least one year in prison.  


2. I've been raped, any person who lies about being raped is a cunt, especially if she names a person. So yes I would fear it, which is why when another person asked me this I suggested a polygraph.


3. If the mother has been told the pregnancy is high risk and her life or the baby's life is in danger by a doctor, that's where the line is drawn. After that if a women continues on with the pregnancy that's at her disgression.


4. Abusive situation is when the woman is 1. sexually abused, 2. Verbally abused or 3. Physically abused and she cannot get out of the situation on her own. If need be a polygraph can be given.


5. That's at the parents and doctors disgression, as I have stated before. Because there are many pregnancies that the baby tests postive for disorders and such and they test turns out to be a false positive or it has turned out worse than they originally thought...


6. Cheaper condoms, sex education (here is mandatory in order to pass high school), as for back alley abortions, they are probably unsafe and if a women is that desperate and something does wrong, well hopefully she leaarns her lesson.


Quoting jessi2girls:


question: (well a few)


1- IF we were to impliment a law, station abortion was illegal except for the exceptions you listed below.. how would you regulate them?


2- Wouldn't you fear women that didn't care about others, lying just to get the abortion done? Such as claiming to have been raped? Or even going so far as to name a person who she says raped her (even though it didn't happen), just to get the procedure (assuming you'd need to press charges to get one).. so now you'd have "Sara" pissed off at her ex "jonny" because he left her and now she just found out she's pregnant, so pins it on him, and he's fucked for life, a registered sex offender, possible jail time.. just because she was pissed and didn't want the baby...


3-How would you determine when the mother's life is at risk?  There are a lot of pregnancies that are considered high risk, but not necessarily life threatening, so where do we draw the line?


4-How do you define abusive situation? Would you need a court order, or restraining order, or police report? Again, wouldn't you run into the same problem as with rape, with people lying, again, just to have it done?


5- How would you determine the line for illness/disease for a baby in the womb?


6- How do you propose trying to reduce unwanted pregnancy, to reduce issues like back alley clinics, and people lying about their condition, etc?


Quoting insaneygolover:


 Actually I have 4 sinarios where its ok


1. Mother's life in danger


2. Women is raped and mentally cannot carry the baby without killing herself even with support and counciling


3. A baby will be born into an abusive situation and mom cannot give it up for adoption (ex. state laws, father refuses to sign etc.)


4. A baby has a severe deformity/illness that is life threating. Its at the parents disgression whether or not to abort, and I know that is widely debated...I personally will not abort if the child has autism, but may abort if the child is born without eyes AND is deaf. Either-or I could cope with but not both. But I would look into adoption for a family who could...


Quoting LoriLou75:

Just to clarify.... Do you think abotion should be illegal, with an exception ONLY for the mothers life being eminently at risk? Or Do you believe something else??


Quoting insaneygolover:


 Not really. But in this day and age if the mom doesnn't want a high risk pregnancy she will abort.



I was really sick with my pregnancy, I was 18 and I didn't abort.



Quoting LoriLou75:

So it's only ok if the mother will die, she shouldn't be able to abort if the pregnancy would effect her health negatively in other ways, or is just high risk?



Quoting insaneygolover:



 1. Mother dies she cannot have any future kids




2. Mother dies, baby dies too




This is a lose-lose situation.




Quoting LoriLou75:




why THEN is a mothers life more valuble than a "baby's"?




Quoting insaneygolover:




 agree 100%, the only time is when the mother's life is in danger.




 








 



 


 




 




 




 


 


 


fairyjester
by on Jul. 23, 2012 at 7:50 PM
1 mom liked this

as for  your edit.   so if you are raped and you kill a baby it is not murder? but if the sex was consensual  it is not murder?   How does that work.

either it is murder or it is not.

brettsmomma
by ~Tammie~ on Jul. 23, 2012 at 7:51 PM

If you have  any reasons that are acceptable to get an abortion (examples would be medical,rape, or incest) then YOU ARE PRO CHOICE... SMH.. 

ginnjuice


laura_sims
by on Jul. 23, 2012 at 7:51 PM

But you said you valued life.....doesnt it make you sad about those poor little fertilized egg?

Isn't it a contradiction to say you value it but then are okay with something that purposely disposes of those zygotes

Quoting johnnys_mom6605:

I don't see either of them as abortion. There are plenty of women out there who can't get pregnant simply because the egg does not implant. So if an egg does not implant, I don't consider it an abortion.


Quoting laura_sims:

Breastfeeding doesnt only try prevent ovulation it mostly prevents implantation. That is why most women who breastfeed do not get a period. 

Do you see hormonal birth control as a form of abortion? What about breastfeeding?



Quoting johnnys_mom6605:

Never taken BC. Dont feel comfortable with it for exactly that reason. And, really, I cant take it anyway. So that saves me the trouble. Breastfeeding prevents you from ovulating. It only (possibly) kills a baby if you bf while pregnant. I would never do it while pregnant because I wouldn't risk it.





Quoting laura_sims:

So you are against hormonal birth control and breastfeeding?

Both of those things "kill" zygotes




Quoting johnnys_mom6605:

I completely understand a medically necessary abortion. I said that in the other replies. I believe life starts the moment an egg is fertilized. So yes. You can say that I value zygote.








Quoting laura_sims:

Who that is just so rude. I have had an abortion. It was not because i was irresponsible, i dont have to justify anything because to me it is not "murder of innocent babies" 

I bet most of your friends and even yourself would get an abortion if it was medically necessary

You said that you value life at all stages...when do you believe life begins? Do you value sperm and eggs? Do you value zygotes?  




Quoting johnnys_mom6605:

Eh. Whatever. I've learned that pro-abortion people will always find a way to twist things. They have to do they can justify the murder of innocent babies. I don't judge people who do it. I just absolutely don't agree with it. I dont have any friends who would do it. They aren't the kind of people I want in my life. I want responsible people in my life. The kind of people who value life at all stages.











Quoting Anonymous:

You specifically said that 'you shouldn't get an abortion if you CHOOSE to have sex'....meaning that you want a baby to be a consequence for the action of sex, no?









If someone doesn't want a baby, that consequence turns into a punishment pretty quickly.









And, FYI, an abortion is also a consequence of having sex.













Quoting johnnys_mom6605:

I don't think it's a punishment. It's just a consequence of an action. Actions have consequences. Doesn't make them punishments. Someone who gets pregnant and doesn't want the baby, has options.















Quoting Anonymous:

Sooo....a baby is a punishment for women who "opened their legs" willingly, but who was to abort for no other reason except that they just don't want a baby?













That makes sense.....

















Quoting johnnys_mom6605:

No NOT just my friend. Any woman whose life is in jeopardy due to pregnancy. My opinion is that is you CHOOSE to have sex and are physically capable of carrying the baby, you shouldn't get an abortion.



















Quoting jonnlilithsmom:

ok, so, your friend should have an abortion if she gets pregnant again, but you disagree with abortion, so everyone else should just not have sex?

shake your head, your brain is stuck

Quoting johnnys_mom6605:

Agree. If a woman makes the choice to have sex, she should own up. Obviously rape victims aren't included, since they didn't choose to have sex. I also think that it's acceptable in life threatening cases. I know someone who gets very high blood pressure and it got worse with her second pregnancy. They took her baby 6 weeks early. She was told that she wouldn't be able to carry another baby without it killing her.
































AquarianPath
by on Jul. 23, 2012 at 8:57 PM

 Please, enlighten me HOW I should be tortured. Give me some examples how you'd like me to be tortured.

I aborted twice in 2006.

I'm incredibly glad that I don't feel that those who don't believe as I do should be tortured.

Quoting insaneygolover:

 If you got them for non-medical, non-rape reasons and you don't feel an ounce of guilt. Then yes, you should go through some kind of torture.

Quoting AquarianPath:

 So, I should be "tortured" for having two abortions? How should I be tortured? Feel free to move to a different country that allows for fascism and other's ideologies to run your life.

Quoting insaneygolover:

  If you are going to spread your legs and make it then you should have to either raise it or let someone who values life adopt it.

Anyone who has an abortion needs to be tortured theirself. It breaks my heart to see these women and or teenagers having sex and not owning up and taking responsibilitiy.


 

I agree with this part...100%. But I also beilve that women who do get abortions have to go through some kind of torture. Because of guilt or other thing, for not medical reasons or rape...but for the simple fact of opening their legs not being careful and getting an abortion because "its not convient" And torture is not murder. I do not know where you got that conception.

AquarianPath
by on Jul. 23, 2012 at 9:00 PM

 I don't get that either. The way the fetus was conceived shouldn't have any relevancy in it's worth. A fetus conceived from rape is exactly the same, biologically, as a fetus conceived from consensual sex.

So, we have to assume that these anti choicers are merely anti woman and want women to be punished for consenting to sex.

Quoting fairyjester:

as for  your edit.   so if you are raped and you kill a baby it is not murder? but if the sex was consensual  it is not murder?   How does that work.

either it is murder or it is not.

 

johnnys_mom6605
by Silver Member on Jul. 23, 2012 at 11:01 PM
Ok. You convinced me. I'll be pro choice now. Let's all go kill some babies. *rolls eyes*


Quoting laura_sims:

But you said you valued life.....doesnt it make you sad about those poor little fertilized egg?

Isn't it a contradiction to say you value it but then are okay with something that purposely disposes of those zygotes


Quoting johnnys_mom6605:

I don't see either of them as abortion. There are plenty of women out there who can't get pregnant simply because the egg does not implant. So if an egg does not implant, I don't consider it an abortion.





Quoting laura_sims:

Breastfeeding doesnt only try prevent ovulation it mostly prevents implantation. That is why most women who breastfeed do not get a period. 

Do you see hormonal birth control as a form of abortion? What about breastfeeding?




Quoting johnnys_mom6605:

Never taken BC. Dont feel comfortable with it for exactly that reason. And, really, I cant take it anyway. So that saves me the trouble. Breastfeeding prevents you from ovulating. It only (possibly) kills a baby if you bf while pregnant. I would never do it while pregnant because I wouldn't risk it.








Quoting laura_sims:

So you are against hormonal birth control and breastfeeding?

Both of those things "kill" zygotes





Quoting johnnys_mom6605:

I completely understand a medically necessary abortion. I said that in the other replies. I believe life starts the moment an egg is fertilized. So yes. You can say that I value zygote.











Quoting laura_sims:

Who that is just so rude. I have had an abortion. It was not because i was irresponsible, i dont have to justify anything because to me it is not "murder of innocent babies" 

I bet most of your friends and even yourself would get an abortion if it was medically necessary

You said that you value life at all stages...when do you believe life begins? Do you value sperm and eggs? Do you value zygotes?  





Quoting johnnys_mom6605:

Eh. Whatever. I've learned that pro-abortion people will always find a way to twist things. They have to do they can justify the murder of innocent babies. I don't judge people who do it. I just absolutely don't agree with it. I dont have any friends who would do it. They aren't the kind of people I want in my life. I want responsible people in my life. The kind of people who value life at all stages.














Quoting Anonymous:

You specifically said that 'you shouldn't get an abortion if you CHOOSE to have sex'....meaning that you want a baby to be a consequence for the action of sex, no?











If someone doesn't want a baby, that consequence turns into a punishment pretty quickly.











And, FYI, an abortion is also a consequence of having sex.
















Quoting johnnys_mom6605:

I don't think it's a punishment. It's just a consequence of an action. Actions have consequences. Doesn't make them punishments. Someone who gets pregnant and doesn't want the baby, has options.


















Quoting Anonymous:

Sooo....a baby is a punishment for women who "opened their legs" willingly, but who was to abort for no other reason except that they just don't want a baby?















That makes sense.....




















Quoting johnnys_mom6605:

No NOT just my friend. Any woman whose life is in jeopardy due to pregnancy. My opinion is that is you CHOOSE to have sex and are physically capable of carrying the baby, you shouldn't get an abortion.






















Quoting jonnlilithsmom:

ok, so, your friend should have an abortion if she gets pregnant again, but you disagree with abortion, so everyone else should just not have sex?

shake your head, your brain is stuck

Quoting johnnys_mom6605:

Agree. If a woman makes the choice to have sex, she should own up. Obviously rape victims aren't included, since they didn't choose to have sex. I also think that it's acceptable in life threatening cases. I know someone who gets very high blood pressure and it got worse with her second pregnancy. They took her baby 6 weeks early. She was told that she wouldn't be able to carry another baby without it killing her.









































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