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Pro Life with exceptions IS NOT Pro Choice! ****ETA****

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IMO, if someone wants abortion illegal, even with exceptions, you are still PL. I get so annoyed when a PL person says "I think abortion should be allowed for rape, incest, maternal health" and someone comes back with "That makes you Pro Choice". It doesn't, Pro Choice (again IMO) means giving women all their choices, freedom to choice regardless of reason. If you are only giving her choices under special circumstances, how is that "Pro Choice"? I get that it isn't entirely Pro Life either, it is somewhere in the middle. 


**ETA**

From the responses, it seems many people don't/can't separate their personal feelings from their political views. So, to be sure we are all "on the same page", lets keep the opinions to your political views on abortion. Do you feel the federal or state government should ban it? Place stricter regulations on it, that sort of thing. Ya now, how would YOU VOTE if the subject appeared on your ballot?


“If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed”.

-Albert Einstein

by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 1:48 PM
Replies (41-50):
AllofFive19
by Ruby Member on Oct. 13, 2012 at 12:21 AM

Actually it's a bit muddier than that. Generally those who will allow abortion in cases of rape are concerned with the mother's mental health.

Quoting Bellarose0212:

I agree that those exceptions don't make you pro-choice.

They do, however, make your pro-life stance a bit muddied. It seems like it's about the circumstances of conception, not the value of the fetal life.

I understand being anti-abortion, I am too (for myself anyway and in terms of reducing the numbers through rational means that support women and children, not just passing laws against abortion), but the minute you say, "except in the case or rape or incest," it's no longer about preserving the life but about slut-shaming.

The life of the fetus who was conceived with consent of the mother is PRECIOUS and cannot be destroyed but the life of the fetus who was conceived via rape can be destroyed.

What kind of a law/policy is that? How can you say that a life is more/less worth preservation based on the circumstances of conception? It's all about judgement about the mother's perceived promiscuity.


Hesmynavyman
by on Oct. 13, 2012 at 12:24 AM
3 moms liked this

I am a mother of 3 children! I can not even imagine killing my baby that moves around in me, even worse seeing that amazing heart beat! Obviously it's alive I don't care what anyone else says! It's alive. Right at conception it has it's own DNA! Now that is a baby right there! God says he knows us the minute of conception! I have had 2 miscarriages in the past and it's soo sad all you can do is cry! My 1st one I was rapped and considered raising the child on my own or adoption! Abortion never crossed my mind, however I did miscarry my child it to this day is a very emotional subject that enters my mind quite often I know my child loves me, misses me and we will see eachother one day and reunite for the time on earth we didn't get to have! I miscarried huge clots so I was not that far along, but knowing it was conceived and had it's own DNA makes me sad, and the 2nd time my husband and I miscarried our 2nd pregnancy and our baby had legs, arms, feet and what looked like a small head, I cramped a lot, I had just had a baby 2 months before this happened so at first I thought it was all normal just bleeding and clots, but... this looked just like a baby! I had no idea I was pregnant although I did gain some weight.It would also bother me as well, if someone said they are pro-life except for incest/ rape! How dare they even say that! My friend was raped by her own father and had a child.:( Very sad but it happens I don't think an innocent child should be killed no matter the circumstance! I can say this because I am a rape victim! It's not about my selfish needs only, their is now a baby that has been created that deserves a chance to live like God intended it to be, he only gives you what you can handle! 

illinoismommy83
by on Oct. 13, 2012 at 12:25 AM

The Catholic church makes exceptions when the mother's life is in danger. Go tell them they are pro-choice. I dare you. :)

Bellarose0212
by Gold Member on Oct. 13, 2012 at 12:29 AM
6 moms liked this

Okay, but then you are saying that the fetus doesn't really have personhood and are making exceptions to what you deem murder.

A mother's mental health may or may not be in jeopardy because she was raped and may or may not be in jeopardy even if she had consensual sex (but has other obstacles in her life that might make a pregnancy traumatic, like domestic abuse or not enough to go around for her kids or extremely religious parents who may harm her). As soon as you are making exceptions based around life circumstances, it is about judging her life circumstances and deciding if those are good enough reasons to abort. If you are judging whether an abortion is justified, you are giving consenses that the fetus does not have personhood and is not always deserving of protection, as a born child would be. So, that is harder to defend than, a fetus is a person and always worthy of protection.

Quoting AllofFive19:

Actually it's a bit muddier than that. Generally those who will allow abortion in cases of rape are concerned with the mother's mental health.

Quoting Bellarose0212:

I agree that those exceptions don't make you pro-choice.

They do, however, make your pro-life stance a bit muddied. It seems like it's about the circumstances of conception, not the value of the fetal life.

I understand being anti-abortion, I am too (for myself anyway and in terms of reducing the numbers through rational means that support women and children, not just passing laws against abortion), but the minute you say, "except in the case or rape or incest," it's no longer about preserving the life but about slut-shaming.

The life of the fetus who was conceived with consent of the mother is PRECIOUS and cannot be destroyed but the life of the fetus who was conceived via rape can be destroyed.

What kind of a law/policy is that? How can you say that a life is more/less worth preservation based on the circumstances of conception? It's all about judgement about the mother's perceived promiscuity.



AllofFive19
by Ruby Member on Oct. 13, 2012 at 12:36 AM

A fetus is a person and worthy of protection, until that protection threatens the life of the mother carrying that fetus. 

Quoting Bellarose0212:

Okay, but then you are saying that the fetus doesn't really have personhood and are making exceptions to what you deem murder.

A mother's mental health may or may not be in jeopardy because she was raped and may or may not be in jeopardy even if she had consensual sex (but has other obstacles in her life that might make a pregnancy traumatic, like domestic abuse or not enough to go around for her kids or extremely religious parents who may harm her). As soon as you are making exceptions based around life circumstances, it is about judging her life circumstances and deciding if those are good enough reasons to abort. If you are judging whether an abortion is justified, you are giving consenses that the fetus does not have personhood and is not always deserving of protection, as a born child would be. So, that is harder to defend than, a fetus is a person and always worthy of protection.


AmiJanell
by Silver Member on Oct. 13, 2012 at 12:37 AM
3 moms liked this

Yes... it IS pro choice if there are exceptions... if you are pro-life then you believe that life of the baby comes before all, that you don't have a choice because it's a LIFE and that there is no choice in that... to end that life would be murder. And if you view it as murder then there aren't exceptions just because you think they sound good...  I can't go and murder a rapist and get away with it... it's the same thing if you are pro-life.

I happen to be pro-choice because I feel there ARE those circumstances where a woman might need to make those kinds of choices... such as rape.  Doesn't mean I would make that choice for myself, but I feel women should be able to have that say over their own body and life. That does not mean that I think that a woman should use abortion as a form of birth control or that I think it's right in all cases.

One of my favorite sayings... I think you could learn from it:

You are entitled to your own OPINION, but you are not entitled to your own FACTS

Just because you think there are exceptions to the pro-life stance, doesn't mean there are... if you feel their are exceptions then you are pro-choice... simple as that.

ChristianHerbal
by on Oct. 13, 2012 at 12:38 AM
3 moms liked this

It should NEVER be a choice to murder a child, born or not.

Bellarose0212
by Gold Member on Oct. 13, 2012 at 12:49 AM
1 mom liked this

That's easier to defend than, "A fetus is a person and worthy of protection unless the mother didn't have consensual sex because if she did have consensual sex she should have kept her legs clothes or deal with the consequences. If she was raped, the fetus is no longer a person and no longer worthy of protection, even though the fetus is biologically and developmentally the same no matter how it was concieved." Incest is also difficult because in most cases of incest, the risk of any health issues with the child as a result of incest are slim. Also, how would they enforce those laws? Every woman who wanted an abortion could claim rape or incest and it would be hard/take to long to prove otherwise.Your exception is easier to prove, with documentation of an ectopic pregnancy, life threatening preeclampsia, cancer, etc. from a doctor.

Quoting AllofFive19:++

A fetus is a person and worthy of protection, until that protection threatens the life of the mother carrying that fetus. 

Quoting Bellarose0212:

Okay, but then you are saying that the fetus doesn't really have personhood and are making exceptions to what you deem murder.

A mother's mental health may or may not be in jeopardy because she was raped and may or may not be in jeopardy even if she had consensual sex (but has other obstacles in her life that might make a pregnancy traumatic, like domestic abuse or not enough to go around for her kids or extremely religious parents who may harm her). As soon as you are making exceptions based around life circumstances, it is about judging her life circumstances and deciding if those are good enough reasons to abort. If you are judging whether an abortion is justified, you are giving consenses that the fetus does not have personhood and is not always deserving of protection, as a born child would be. So, that is harder to defend than, a fetus is a person and always worthy of protection.



noble427
by on Oct. 13, 2012 at 12:50 AM
::claps::

SO true!
kalie691
by on Oct. 13, 2012 at 12:53 AM
1 mom liked this

Personally, as a mommy who would die for her child any minute of the day, born or unborn, I don't see what the CHOICE is. I understand, however, that not all people think that way and I believe it is 100% WRONG for anyone to tell anyone else what to do with their body and their life. My beliefs are exactly that, mine. I have a bad taste in my mouth when I think about women using abortions as a form of birth control, but it is not my place to judge them. There are a million situations and a million reasons why people make these decisions. However they want to label them is fine by me because, in the end, the only choice I have for my baby is to give it the best start it can possibly have.

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