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Pro Life with exceptions IS NOT Pro Choice! ****ETA****

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IMO, if someone wants abortion illegal, even with exceptions, you are still PL. I get so annoyed when a PL person says "I think abortion should be allowed for rape, incest, maternal health" and someone comes back with "That makes you Pro Choice". It doesn't, Pro Choice (again IMO) means giving women all their choices, freedom to choice regardless of reason. If you are only giving her choices under special circumstances, how is that "Pro Choice"? I get that it isn't entirely Pro Life either, it is somewhere in the middle. 


**ETA**

From the responses, it seems many people don't/can't separate their personal feelings from their political views. So, to be sure we are all "on the same page", lets keep the opinions to your political views on abortion. Do you feel the federal or state government should ban it? Place stricter regulations on it, that sort of thing. Ya now, how would YOU VOTE if the subject appeared on your ballot?


“If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed”.

-Albert Einstein

by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 1:48 PM
Replies (31-40):
Bellarose0212
by Gold Member on Oct. 12, 2012 at 11:42 PM
6 moms liked this

I agree that those exceptions don't make you pro-choice.

They do, however, make your pro-life stance a bit muddied. It seems like it's about the circumstances of conception, not the value of the fetal life.

I understand being anti-abortion, I am too (for myself anyway and in terms of reducing the numbers through rational means that support women and children, not just passing laws against abortion), but the minute you say, "except in the case or rape or incest," it's no longer about preserving the life but about slut-shaming.

The life of the fetus who was conceived with consent of the mother is PRECIOUS and cannot be destroyed but the life of the fetus who was conceived via rape can be destroyed.

What kind of a law/policy is that? How can you say that a life is more/less worth preservation based on the circumstances of conception? It's all about judgement about the mother's perceived promiscuity.

krayzbabylove
by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 11:43 PM
1 mom liked this

Pro choice mean wanting abortion to be legal.... Pro life means you want abortion to be illegal... people define each in their own ways, but point blank, these terms were created for this specific reason. A pro life movement started, to try and ban abortion..

Bellarose0212
by Gold Member on Oct. 12, 2012 at 11:46 PM
1 mom liked this

I think you are pro-choice because pro-life/pro-choice usually describes how people feel about roe v wade and what they want the laws to reflect.

I am also pro-choice, but personally against abortion (meaning I'd like to reduce its numbers in ways that support women and children and also meaning that I wouldn't consider it for myself). That was sort of news to me too. lol.

Quoting pce68:

I don't know which side I should be on. I consider myself pro-life bc I do believe that life begins at conception, but I don't think abortion should be illegal. So am I pro-life or pro-choice?


mhaney03
by Silver Member on Oct. 13, 2012 at 12:03 AM

I get what you are saying, but those aren't the ONLY exceptions a pro life person has.  Maybe those aren't their personal exceptions.  I have heard that some pro lifers (none i've met personally) don't even believe in aborting ectopic pregnancy or anything that threatens the life of the mother or in cases where the child will have a horrible quality of life due to some defect.  THOSE are my exceptions.

Quoting Bellarose0212:

I agree that those exceptions don't make you pro-choice.

They do, however, make your pro-life stance a bit muddied. It seems like it's about the circumstances of conception, not the value of the fetal life.

I understand being anti-abortion, I am too (for myself anyway and in terms of reducing the numbers through rational means that support women and children, not just passing laws against abortion), but the minute you say, "except in the case or rape or incest," it's no longer about preserving the life but about slut-shaming.

The life of the fetus who was conceived with consent of the mother is PRECIOUS and cannot be destroyed but the life of the fetus who was conceived via rape can be destroyed.

What kind of a law/policy is that? How can you say that a life is more/less worth preservation based on the circumstances of conception? It's all about judgement about the mother's perceived promiscuity.


Anonymous
by Anonymous 6 on Oct. 13, 2012 at 12:08 AM

It can be argued that pro-life, with exceptions, does not mean pro-life. Perhaps those who oppose abortion, except when.....should have their own label? 

TLIF1281
by on Oct. 13, 2012 at 12:12 AM

Ok to each their own. If a woman feels that it is best for her and the baby then they should have the right. This being said myself I would not choose abortion that is just me. Now going on a side road here. Romney can't seem to make up his mind if he wants to keep abortion legal or illegalize it. YOU CAN NOT COMPLETELY ILLEGALIZE ABORTION! The reason I say this is because abortion is used for WAY more things than just ending a viable pregnancy by a woman's choice. The pregnancy itself may not be viable in meaning it could be what they call a fibroid or an inviable fetus where it is forming but has no heartbeat the list goes on as well as oh the amount of women that will go underground to have unsafe abortions. Abortions are never 100% safe there are complications as is with any procedure but women will be going to back alleys and in to creepy unsanitary buildings to get abortions. That I do not agree with! Sorry I have been looking for a spot to put this. Yes on teh other hand Obama has his points when it comes to abortion like him believing in late term abortion and that is a whole other horrible thing. Ok I am off my soap box now lol! 

momma2an_angel
by on Oct. 13, 2012 at 12:12 AM

did u want the nobel prize for your revelation?

Bellarose0212
by Gold Member on Oct. 13, 2012 at 12:13 AM
1 mom liked this

I don't think I said that every pro-life person holds those exceptions.

I do think those exceptions make it harder to defend a pro-life POV though, just because you are no longer talking about how valuable the life is, but rather allowing the circumstances of conception (whether or not the mother was a slut who should be told that she should've closed her legs if she didn't want to get pregnant, basically) decide how valuable the life is. If it's valuable and worth protecting, it's worth protecting every time and the circumstances of conception shouldn't affect that. You can't say a fetus is more/less worth saving based on how it was concieved any more than you can say a baby/child is more/less worth saving based on how it was conceived.

Those are pretty famous exceptions though. For instance, those are the exceptions of the Romney/Ryan campaign stance on abortion.

I get why people do it. They are saying, "I'm pro-choice but I'm not an asshole, I'm not going to force a raped woman or child to carry a pregnancy." But, that's ultimately saying that a raped woman's fetus is not worth saving and if you think fetus=baby and all abortion amounts to murder, then you could extrapolate that killing a born infant because the mother was raped is also acceptable. The real message is that it's about whether the woman chose sex or not, because we can blame/shame her if she did.

I get that there are degrees of pro-life conviction and some women would choose to risk their lives/die rather than terminate. Their choice. I was only taking issue with the exceptions for rape and incest, saying they make a pro-life position (a fetus is a baby and always worth protecting as a person) hard to defend.

Quoting mhaney03:

I get what you are saying, but those aren't the ONLY exceptions a pro life person has.  Maybe those aren't their personal exceptions.  I have heard that some pro lifers (none i've met personally) don't even believe in aborting ectopic pregnancy or anything that threatens the life of the mother or in cases where the child will have a horrible quality of life due to some defect.  THOSE are my exceptions.

Quoting Bellarose0212:

I agree that those exceptions don't make you pro-choice.

They do, however, make your pro-life stance a bit muddied. It seems like it's about the circumstances of conception, not the value of the fetal life.

I understand being anti-abortion, I am too (for myself anyway and in terms of reducing the numbers through rational means that support women and children, not just passing laws against abortion), but the minute you say, "except in the case or rape or incest," it's no longer about preserving the life but about slut-shaming.

The life of the fetus who was conceived with consent of the mother is PRECIOUS and cannot be destroyed but the life of the fetus who was conceived via rape can be destroyed.

What kind of a law/policy is that? How can you say that a life is more/less worth preservation based on the circumstances of conception? It's all about judgement about the mother's perceived promiscuity.



FoxFire363
by Ruby Member on Oct. 13, 2012 at 12:18 AM

I consider myself pro-life with exceptions, however I think it should remain legal. The only legal restriction I think there should be is that after the first trimester, there should be a medical necessity. Just because I wouldn't do it doesn't mean it should be illegal for other people. 

AllofFive19
by Ruby Member on Oct. 13, 2012 at 12:19 AM

Or maybe Logical Pro-choice. It's logical to not jeopardize a mother's health, whether she is too young, too old, not healthy, etc.

Quoting mommyrustina:

I agree with you OP.

We should rename it "Pro-life with a sanity clause attached", maybe that would appease everyone hung up on technicalities. I am pro-life for pretty much all cases but sanity tells me that forcing a ten year old rape victim to carry a child is a bad idea. Sanity tells me that that ending an ectopic pregnancy is a good idea.



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