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Stop mutilating your babies!!!!

Posted by Anonymous   + Show Post

http://www.drmomma.org/2010_03_01_archive.html

Why did my loving parents do this to me many years ago?

I’m sure their doctor told them it was the hygienic thing to do. But I’m equally sure I must have been screaming like hell while it was being done. Today, millions of circumcisions are still performed. But it’s time to stop this shocking brutality and the complications associated with it.

Dr. Guy Madder, a surgeon at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital, Adelaide, Australia, reports in the Annals of Family Medicine that there is no convincing evidence that circumcision decreases the risk of sexually transmitted disease, urinary tract infections, or penile cancer.

The rituals of some religious faiths advocate circumcision. But, apart from these circumstances, it’s hard to justify this procedure. In fact, a reading of the world’s medical journals makes your hair stand on end when you read of potential surgical complications.

How common are complications? This depends on how you label a complication. For example, penal foreskin is anatomically the most sensitive part of the organ. It ensures satisfactory sex. It’s therefore reasonable to argue that in this instance the complication rate is 100% because it decreases sexual satisfaction.

There’s another aspect to circumcision that is never mentioned in the discussion of the pros and cons of this surgery. Today, erectile dysfunction (ED) drugs are being used by an increasing number of males, and many of them are not in their senior years. I admit, I have no hard statistics on this matter. [Editor's note: recent ED statistics are outlined in The Rise of Viagra]

But I wonder how many males who require ED drugs could have experienced a longer and more satisfactory sex life, if this sensitive organ had not been removed. I suspect more than we realize. This is a great project for some aspiring researcher!

But why do some of the complications of this procedure make one’s hair stand on end? Harvey Cushing, one of Harvard’s greatest brain surgeons, once remarked that, “There is no such thing as minor surgery, but there are a lot of minor surgeons.” In this case, a profound remark.

Compared to brain surgery, circumcision is a minor procedure, and is normally performed without complications. But, no surgical procedure to my knowledge has ever been devised, regardless of how minor it is, without possible untoward results.

The world’s medical journals are full of reports dealing with a variety of surgical complications. And the vast majority of severe complications are not an act of God, but technical human errors made during the procedure.

A primary problem is the incorrect use of the circumcision clamp. In some cases too much foreskin is pulled into the clamp resulting in injury, not only to the shaft of the penis, but also to the urinary tube (urethra) that runs through it. The most traumatic complication in the past caused the amputation of part of the penis.

Such traumatic injuries to the penis and urethra often result in urinary stricture and difficulty passing urine. Or, the injury may result in a urethral fistula, in which urine is discharged through an abnormal opening. These complications are not easy to repair, and what starts out as a minor procedure, becomes a major one. Moreover, some of these injuries only become apparent following discharge from hospital. A fistula often takes weeks or months to make its presence known.

There have been bizarre problems that one would never think of happening. For instance, one newborn screamed during the procedure with such intensity that the stomach ruptured, requiring additional emergency surgery.

Another had heart failure [heart attack] from the circumcision surgery and died.

Still another died from a bleeding disorder post-op. It’s easy to see how this could happen since coagulation studies are not routinely done prior to circumcision surgery.

Why wouldn’t babies scream like hell when circumcised without anesthesia? And how many males who have it done later in life would agree to this procedure without anesthesia?

Today we criticize those cultures that believe in the barbaric act of female circumcision. Yet Western doctors continue to carry out this sadistic procedure in males without their permission. That’s why many argue that circumcision violates the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights. Amen to that.

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There are more links and good reads on the website. This isn't a debate. You are playing with fire and potentially scarring your son for life. Please be factually informed before you chop it off. You may sit back and say "Well, my baby/son never had problems, he is set for life!" Look at the increase of men looking to reverse it and now looking to help for ED. The complications may not be present at first, but they will come at a vengence later.

Posted by Anonymous on Nov. 19, 2012 at 4:02 PM
Replies (431-440):
keriley1
by Silver Member on Nov. 20, 2012 at 10:58 PM
1 mom liked this

Its the STDs and the child not cleaning it properly which, lets be honest, what little boy cleans ANY part of himself properly? Come on. And you are not going to change my, or anyone else's mind. You don't even have the guts to give your opinion openly. You are hiding behind anon. It's fine, and I will do it because my children's father makes the call in that department. OBVIOUSLY its not a problem for him otherwise he wouldn't want to do it if we ever have a boy. Which will probably never happen, I have a pretty good feeling we will have all girls, so arguing about it is truly pointless. So good day. :)

Quoting Anonymous:

EXACTLY! AND neither do most intact penises. In fact, fewer intact men have those problems than women. FAR FEWER! Yet these are some of the main reasons used to defend RIC. Thanks for bringing it back to that. 

Quoting keriley1:

Hahaha, ok. And idk about YOURS but I don't have that problem.

Quoting Anonymous:

Really? Your excuse for altering a childs genitals is that a car might drive through their house and kill them? MmmmKay.

Vaginas look no more the same as each other than penises. Ask you hubby. Vaginas also have lots of skin which love to keep in moisture, harbor bacteria and allow yeast to overgrow, so maybe we should just lop off all those flaps in the name of risk prevention? 


Quoting keriley1:

They all look basically the same, so you still don't make sense. Its not to LOOK like him its for the health benfits. Which there are. No one can deny there are benefits to it. Sure there are risks, but there is a bit of risk just sitting on your couch. A car could come flying thru your wall and kill you. (just happened last summer to a poor old lady just sitting in her living room.)

Quoting Anonymous:

We were talking about surgically altering a child to look like the parent. Are you gonna SURICALLY alter your daughters vagina to look like yours? I just assumed I did not have to spell that out, since that is what we were talking about. 

Quoting keriley1:

Not entirely sure how you come to that conclusion but ok.

Quoting Anonymous:

You are a total weirdo!

Quoting keriley1:

Uh....good attempt at making an argument. I personally will not be having sex with her or make her have babies, but when (or if) she does then I guess hers will probably be just like mine.

Quoting Anonymous:

You gonna make your daughter vagina just like yours too? 

Quoting keriley1:

My fiance likes his p.p. just the way it is and said I don't have a choice if we ever have a boy, he will be circumsized just like daddy.











Anonymous
by Anonymous on Nov. 20, 2012 at 10:59 PM

Okay, so how is surgically altering an infants penis "to look better, be cleaner, and look like his dads penis" different from surgically altering an infants vagina to "look better, be cleaner, and look like her moms vagina?"

Quoting momto2boys973:

Quoting Anonymous:

"You are a total weirdo!"

But she knows that penises and vaginas are different and therefore "surgically altering" one isn't comparable to "surgically altering" the other, which is more than I can say for you...

Sharon


momto2boys973
by Ruby Member on Nov. 20, 2012 at 11:08 PM
Quoting Anonymous:



"Okay, so how is surgically altering an infants penis "to look better, be cleaner, and look like his dads penis" different from surgically altering an infants vagina to "look better, be cleaner, and look like her moms vagina?"

The reasoning behind it is irrelevant. Fact is male circumcision has medical benefits and no detrimental effects. FGM is anatomically and physiologically damaging and has no benefits at all.
Now whether a parent makes the choice for the medical benefits, or because it's what you do or to look like daddy, the benefits are still there. Just as if I choose to vaccinate because my kids get a free lollipop doesn't abolish the benefits from that vaccine.

Sharon
Anonymous
by Anonymous on Nov. 20, 2012 at 11:13 PM

I make all of my posts annonymous, even the supportive ones, and not because of this topic. Besides which, do I really know you because you are "open"? Hardly. You know there is a person behind my post, and knowing, or internet name, or even my real name, and seeing an avitar pic. is not going to make you know me better. 

I actually have changed minds. My best friend thought I was crazy not to circumcise. That is, until she had a boy. She is a for more ferocious intactivist than I ever was. Another acquaintance that I know of did not circ her child after talking to me. Where I live, very few boys are circed anyway. I know this because I work with very young children. Only one of the nine current boys in my current toddler class is circed. So, people are talking, and making a difference. Not just me, but all of us.  When my son was born, 18 years ago, at the very beginning of the movement not to, most were routinely circumcised. It had changed dramatically, from moms talking to mom, and medical professionals taking notice, and recommending it less and less. 

I am not trying to change your mind. I will also not loose sleep if you have a son, and circ. him. Many people on this very site, have admitted to vehmetly supporting RIC, and then did not circ their sons. Despite all of the fuss and defensiveness, people do not circ their child to spite those who oppose it. When you are making choices for your baby, should you have a son, you will think a little bit harder about it, do little more reflection, and put more thought into it than you would have because you love your children, and want to make careful decisions about their care. I say "you" as a general term. 

Take care. 

Quoting keriley1:

Its the STDs and the child not cleaning it properly which, lets be honest, what little boy cleans ANY part of himself properly? Come on. And you are not going to change my, or anyone else's mind. You don't even have the guts to give your opinion openly. You are hiding behind anon. It's fine, and I will do it because my children's father makes the call in that department. OBVIOUSLY its not a problem for him otherwise he wouldn't want to do it if we ever have a boy. Which will probably never happen, I have a pretty good feeling we will have all girls, so arguing about it is truly pointless. So good day. :)

Quoting Anonymous:

EXACTLY! AND neither do most intact penises. In fact, fewer intact men have those problems than women. FAR FEWER! Yet these are some of the main reasons used to defend RIC. Thanks for bringing it back to that. 

Quoting keriley1:

Hahaha, ok. And idk about YOURS but I don't have that problem.

Quoting Anonymous:

Really? Your excuse for altering a childs genitals is that a car might drive through their house and kill them? MmmmKay.

Vaginas look no more the same as each other than penises. Ask you hubby. Vaginas also have lots of skin which love to keep in moisture, harbor bacteria and allow yeast to overgrow, so maybe we should just lop off all those flaps in the name of risk prevention? 


Quoting keriley1:

They all look basically the same, so you still don't make sense. Its not to LOOK like him its for the health benfits. Which there are. No one can deny there are benefits to it. Sure there are risks, but there is a bit of risk just sitting on your couch. A car could come flying thru your wall and kill you. (just happened last summer to a poor old lady just sitting in her living room.)

Quoting Anonymous:

We were talking about surgically altering a child to look like the parent. Are you gonna SURICALLY alter your daughters vagina to look like yours? I just assumed I did not have to spell that out, since that is what we were talking about. 

Quoting keriley1:

Not entirely sure how you come to that conclusion but ok.

Quoting Anonymous:

You are a total weirdo!

Quoting keriley1:

Uh....good attempt at making an argument. I personally will not be having sex with her or make her have babies, but when (or if) she does then I guess hers will probably be just like mine.

Quoting Anonymous:

You gonna make your daughter vagina just like yours too? 

Quoting keriley1:

My fiance likes his p.p. just the way it is and said I don't have a choice if we ever have a boy, he will be circumsized just like daddy.












Anonymous
by Anonymous on Nov. 20, 2012 at 11:21 PM

Did I say FGM? No I did not! If done in a surgical setting, removing extra labial folds is much like removing the foreskin. 

RIC benefits are minimal, and not worthy of having it done. If you think there are no detrimental effect, you are so completely wrong that it is just sad that you would claim that. 

Again, there are benefits to vaccine, although some may argue that. Unlike RIC, the benefits far outweigh the risks. 

There are benefits to lots of things that don't make sense to do. Such as, removing a toe to prevent ingrown toenails, or removing a tooth to prevent a cavity. Just because there are benefits to something, does not mean it should be done. 

Quoting momto2boys973:

Quoting Anonymous:



"Okay, so how is surgically altering an infants penis "to look better, be cleaner, and look like his dads penis" different from surgically altering an infants vagina to "look better, be cleaner, and look like her moms vagina?"

The reasoning behind it is irrelevant. Fact is male circumcision has medical benefits and no detrimental effects. FGM is anatomically and physiologically damaging and has no benefits at all.
Now whether a parent makes the choice for the medical benefits, or because it's what you do or to look like daddy, the benefits are still there. Just as if I choose to vaccinate because my kids get a free lollipop doesn't abolish the benefits from that vaccine.

Sharon


ChristyG2012
by Bronze Member on Nov. 20, 2012 at 11:40 PM
They don't even remember it. They have a teeny tiny scar & it looks & feels better. The procedure take about 20 mins as babies. If you wait for the man to choose later they WILL remember. It WILL be humiliating. It WILL take longer. & it WILL take longer to recover. You choose how to treat your son. I will decide how to treat mine.
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
Mamasluvin
by on Nov. 20, 2012 at 11:49 PM
1 mom liked this

exactly how I feel.

I circ my son, my hubby is, my Dad is, my older brother is....however my younger brother isnt because he was born with pediatric tachycardia (not sure if I spelled that right). He HATES that he is not circ..but too scared to get it now. Now he is about to be a dad to a boy....and that little one will be circ. I say...if you chose to do it...do it...if not...then dont. How about we stop judging others for their choices...which..circumcisions have been around for...a thousand or so years....

Quoting hhhanna:

Hmmm, my brother is circ'ed, my husband is circ'ed, my father is circ'ed, my sister's kids are circ'ed and not a one of them was scarred for life by it.  You don't want to circ your's then don't, but quit telling other people how to raise theirs.


Teacher101
by on Nov. 20, 2012 at 11:51 PM

Well I don't plan on having any more, but even if I did I would circumsize my boys. I have seen how my five year old manages wiping his own butt, I surely wouldn't trust him to clean the tip of his penis.

Blue_Spiral
by Gold Member on Nov. 21, 2012 at 2:20 AM


Quoting momto2boys973:

Quoting Blue_Spiral:

"I said women who are forced to cover their hair. The point here is for people to have a choice."

Another common anti-circ red herring: inflating the value of a choice. Fact is every human being on the planet is limited in his/her choices. You can't do anything you please. Your laws and societies limit the choices you have. Other societies have different limitations and again, what an ego to suggest that your limits on choices are THE right ones every human being should abide by?

"And you also lumped that together with child brides... I mean, hey, it's a cultural difference. I guess we should respect that too!"

Actually, I didn't. Just because I was too lazy to edit on my iPhone that doesn't take away from the fact that the lumping was done by YOU.
But yes, you should respect it if it's part of their culture and not interfering with the laws of the country.

"Enlighten me on how free you are, Sharon, and since you know exactly what it's like to be a Muslim, I'd like to hear about that as well."

Oh, I'm very free. In fact, I'm more free now that I've never been because I know exactly the right oath to follow and I can follow it without any peer pressure from mainstream society to be "normal". I'm free from materialism and consumerism, I'm free of social conformity. Obviously, it's something you could never understand because your prejudicial nature only let's you reach wrongful conclusions.
As for Muslims, I wouldn't dare comment on their religion. Unlike you, I don't judge in ignorance and prejudice just because I'm too close minded to respect the ways of others. I do know that when I've asked Muslim ladies about the burka and their status, they speak very fondly and proudly about how that modesty is meant to protect them and how valued they are. I have no reason not to believe them because some extreme fanatics have distorted their religion.
But you obviously tend to believe the fanatic extremists as it allows you to hang on to that prejudice you seem to need so much.

"I've debated with you before. I know what kind of a person you are. You make my skin crawl. And btw, hell yes I am prejudiced towards the oppression of others. "

Oh no!!! I make your skin crawl??? Whatever will I do? I KNOW! Not give a rat's ass about your ignorant, uneducated, prejudiced, hateful, idiotic comments. If anything, any insult coming from you is a compliment, I wouldn't want someone like you liking me, yikes! So thanks!
Carry on spreading your crap all over the place. There's a reason why people are jumping on your neck and no one except you has jumped on mine: you're not a very nice person, dear. Not many people like little bigots like you.
Pressing IGNORE on your bigotry! Babble away

Sharon

No, sweetie. I think all religions are equally ridiculous, and I'm not talking about suicide bombers here. I'm talking treating women like ignorant property, which is a very common practice in many, if not most, religions and some just happen to be more extreme than others. I have friends that are Muslim. I have a couple that have recently moved from the middle east. They personally know gay people who were killed and have told me in detail what marriage is like for an Arab woman. They did not tell me for shock value. They were speaking casually.

I've never seen anyone spend more time on cafemom than you. I have trouble believing you aren't as influenced as you say you are by the mainstream, or at least you must be so incredibly bored with your constricted lifestyle that this website and debating happier women on it is your only fun.

And yes, I must be a bigot because I don't think people should be oppressed because of their gender, and I don't think religion gives anyone a right to hurt others.

I really wonder if you hear yourself, and if after so many debates you really still believe your bs. Maybe you're just a troll. I'm not sure.

So, you condone statutory rape and infant mutilation. Do you draw the line anywhere at all? Some cultures bury children alive, some Indians throw infants off of buildings (most considered that horrendous, but not circumcision...), etc. etc.

If I bashed my child's nose in with a hammer as an offering to my gods I could claim it's a cultural ritual and you would congratulate me on a job well done?

I could offer my 8 year old daughter as a bride to a 55 year old man and you would be happy for her?

I don't know how you justify these things to yourself. It further supports my opinion of your mental state.



momto2boys973
by Ruby Member on Nov. 21, 2012 at 7:30 AM
Quoting Anonymous:



"Did I say FGM? No I did not! If done in a surgical setting, removing extra labial folds is much like removing the foreskin."

And according to the WHO, the removal of the clitoral hood is theoretical. It's not a documented practice.

"RIC benefits are minimal, and not worthy of having it done. If you think there are no detrimental effect, you are so completely wrong that it is just sad that you would claim that."

The AAP begs to differ with you, and I'm not wrong. There are numerous studies proving no detrimental effects to circumcision in either sensitivity or function, and there's the grand total of 3 studies saying otherwise, all of them conducted by anti-circ "researchers".
So the sad thing is that you spread those lies.

"Again, there are benefits to vaccine, although some may argue that. Unlike RIC, the benefits far outweigh the risks."

According to the AAP, the benefits of circumcision outweigh the risks.

"There are benefits to lots of things that don't make sense to do. Such as, removing a toe to prevent ingrown toenails, or removing a tooth to prevent a cavity. Just because there are benefits to something, does not mean it should be done. "

The moment something has benefits, it will make sense to someone. Just because something doesn't make sense to YOU, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done or shouldn't make sense for someone else, what an egotistical way to think. To me, co-sleeping, not vaccinating or homeschooling don't make sense. I don't go around telling those people that believe they make sense that it doesn't or that it shouldn't be done.
I'm more respectful and tolerant than that.

Sharon
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