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Stop mutilating your babies!!!!

Posted by Anonymous   + Show Post

http://www.drmomma.org/2010_03_01_archive.html

Why did my loving parents do this to me many years ago?

I’m sure their doctor told them it was the hygienic thing to do. But I’m equally sure I must have been screaming like hell while it was being done. Today, millions of circumcisions are still performed. But it’s time to stop this shocking brutality and the complications associated with it.

Dr. Guy Madder, a surgeon at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital, Adelaide, Australia, reports in the Annals of Family Medicine that there is no convincing evidence that circumcision decreases the risk of sexually transmitted disease, urinary tract infections, or penile cancer.

The rituals of some religious faiths advocate circumcision. But, apart from these circumstances, it’s hard to justify this procedure. In fact, a reading of the world’s medical journals makes your hair stand on end when you read of potential surgical complications.

How common are complications? This depends on how you label a complication. For example, penal foreskin is anatomically the most sensitive part of the organ. It ensures satisfactory sex. It’s therefore reasonable to argue that in this instance the complication rate is 100% because it decreases sexual satisfaction.

There’s another aspect to circumcision that is never mentioned in the discussion of the pros and cons of this surgery. Today, erectile dysfunction (ED) drugs are being used by an increasing number of males, and many of them are not in their senior years. I admit, I have no hard statistics on this matter. [Editor's note: recent ED statistics are outlined in The Rise of Viagra]

But I wonder how many males who require ED drugs could have experienced a longer and more satisfactory sex life, if this sensitive organ had not been removed. I suspect more than we realize. This is a great project for some aspiring researcher!

But why do some of the complications of this procedure make one’s hair stand on end? Harvey Cushing, one of Harvard’s greatest brain surgeons, once remarked that, “There is no such thing as minor surgery, but there are a lot of minor surgeons.” In this case, a profound remark.

Compared to brain surgery, circumcision is a minor procedure, and is normally performed without complications. But, no surgical procedure to my knowledge has ever been devised, regardless of how minor it is, without possible untoward results.

The world’s medical journals are full of reports dealing with a variety of surgical complications. And the vast majority of severe complications are not an act of God, but technical human errors made during the procedure.

A primary problem is the incorrect use of the circumcision clamp. In some cases too much foreskin is pulled into the clamp resulting in injury, not only to the shaft of the penis, but also to the urinary tube (urethra) that runs through it. The most traumatic complication in the past caused the amputation of part of the penis.

Such traumatic injuries to the penis and urethra often result in urinary stricture and difficulty passing urine. Or, the injury may result in a urethral fistula, in which urine is discharged through an abnormal opening. These complications are not easy to repair, and what starts out as a minor procedure, becomes a major one. Moreover, some of these injuries only become apparent following discharge from hospital. A fistula often takes weeks or months to make its presence known.

There have been bizarre problems that one would never think of happening. For instance, one newborn screamed during the procedure with such intensity that the stomach ruptured, requiring additional emergency surgery.

Another had heart failure [heart attack] from the circumcision surgery and died.

Still another died from a bleeding disorder post-op. It’s easy to see how this could happen since coagulation studies are not routinely done prior to circumcision surgery.

Why wouldn’t babies scream like hell when circumcised without anesthesia? And how many males who have it done later in life would agree to this procedure without anesthesia?

Today we criticize those cultures that believe in the barbaric act of female circumcision. Yet Western doctors continue to carry out this sadistic procedure in males without their permission. That’s why many argue that circumcision violates the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights. Amen to that.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



There are more links and good reads on the website. This isn't a debate. You are playing with fire and potentially scarring your son for life. Please be factually informed before you chop it off. You may sit back and say "Well, my baby/son never had problems, he is set for life!" Look at the increase of men looking to reverse it and now looking to help for ED. The complications may not be present at first, but they will come at a vengence later.

Posted by Anonymous on Nov. 19, 2012 at 4:02 PM
Replies (441-450):
Anonymous
by Anonymous 82 on Nov. 21, 2012 at 2:01 PM


Quoting Blue_Spiral:


Quoting momto2boys973:

Quoting Blue_Spiral:

"I said women who are forced to cover their hair. The point here is for people to have a choice."

Another common anti-circ red herring: inflating the value of a choice. Fact is every human being on the planet is limited in his/her choices. You can't do anything you please. Your laws and societies limit the choices you have. Other societies have different limitations and again, what an ego to suggest that your limits on choices are THE right ones every human being should abide by?

"And you also lumped that together with child brides... I mean, hey, it's a cultural difference. I guess we should respect that too!"

Actually, I didn't. Just because I was too lazy to edit on my iPhone that doesn't take away from the fact that the lumping was done by YOU.
But yes, you should respect it if it's part of their culture and not interfering with the laws of the country.

"Enlighten me on how free you are, Sharon, and since you know exactly what it's like to be a Muslim, I'd like to hear about that as well."

Oh, I'm very free. In fact, I'm more free now that I've never been because I know exactly the right oath to follow and I can follow it without any peer pressure from mainstream society to be "normal". I'm free from materialism and consumerism, I'm free of social conformity. Obviously, it's something you could never understand because your prejudicial nature only let's you reach wrongful conclusions.
As for Muslims, I wouldn't dare comment on their religion. Unlike you, I don't judge in ignorance and prejudice just because I'm too close minded to respect the ways of others. I do know that when I've asked Muslim ladies about the burka and their status, they speak very fondly and proudly about how that modesty is meant to protect them and how valued they are. I have no reason not to believe them because some extreme fanatics have distorted their religion.
But you obviously tend to believe the fanatic extremists as it allows you to hang on to that prejudice you seem to need so much.

"I've debated with you before. I know what kind of a person you are. You make my skin crawl. And btw, hell yes I am prejudiced towards the oppression of others. "

Oh no!!! I make your skin crawl??? Whatever will I do? I KNOW! Not give a rat's ass about your ignorant, uneducated, prejudiced, hateful, idiotic comments. If anything, any insult coming from you is a compliment, I wouldn't want someone like you liking me, yikes! So thanks!
Carry on spreading your crap all over the place. There's a reason why people are jumping on your neck and no one except you has jumped on mine: you're not a very nice person, dear. Not many people like little bigots like you.
Pressing IGNORE on your bigotry! Babble away

Sharon

No, sweetie. I think all religions are equally ridiculous, and I'm not talking about suicide bombers here. I'm talking treating women like ignorant property, which is a very common practice in many, if not most, religions and some just happen to be more extreme than others. I have friends that are Muslim. I have a couple that have recently moved from the middle east. They personally know gay people who were killed and have told me in detail what marriage is like for an Arab woman. They did not tell me for shock value. They were speaking casually.

I've never seen anyone spend more time on cafemom than you. I have trouble believing you aren't as influenced as you say you are by the mainstream, or at least you must be so incredibly bored with your constricted lifestyle that this website and debating happier women on it is your only fun.

And yes, I must be a bigot because I don't think people should be oppressed because of their gender, and I don't think religion gives anyone a right to hurt others.

I really wonder if you hear yourself, and if after so many debates you really still believe your bs. Maybe you're just a troll. I'm not sure.

So, you condone statutory rape and infant mutilation. Do you draw the line anywhere at all? Some cultures bury children alive, some Indians throw infants off of buildings (most considered that horrendous, but not circumcision...), etc. etc.

If I bashed my child's nose in with a hammer as an offering to my gods I could claim it's a cultural ritual and you would congratulate me on a job well done?

I could offer my 8 year old daughter as a bride to a 55 year old man and you would be happy for her?

I don't know how you justify these things to yourself. It further supports my opinion of your mental state.



You're a nasty piece of work. And not too smart

Blue_Spiral
by Gold Member on Nov. 21, 2012 at 3:35 PM


Quoting Anonymous:


Quoting Blue_Spiral:


Quoting momto2boys973:

Quoting Blue_Spiral:

"I said women who are forced to cover their hair. The point here is for people to have a choice."

Another common anti-circ red herring: inflating the value of a choice. Fact is every human being on the planet is limited in his/her choices. You can't do anything you please. Your laws and societies limit the choices you have. Other societies have different limitations and again, what an ego to suggest that your limits on choices are THE right ones every human being should abide by?

"And you also lumped that together with child brides... I mean, hey, it's a cultural difference. I guess we should respect that too!"

Actually, I didn't. Just because I was too lazy to edit on my iPhone that doesn't take away from the fact that the lumping was done by YOU.
But yes, you should respect it if it's part of their culture and not interfering with the laws of the country.

"Enlighten me on how free you are, Sharon, and since you know exactly what it's like to be a Muslim, I'd like to hear about that as well."

Oh, I'm very free. In fact, I'm more free now that I've never been because I know exactly the right oath to follow and I can follow it without any peer pressure from mainstream society to be "normal". I'm free from materialism and consumerism, I'm free of social conformity. Obviously, it's something you could never understand because your prejudicial nature only let's you reach wrongful conclusions.
As for Muslims, I wouldn't dare comment on their religion. Unlike you, I don't judge in ignorance and prejudice just because I'm too close minded to respect the ways of others. I do know that when I've asked Muslim ladies about the burka and their status, they speak very fondly and proudly about how that modesty is meant to protect them and how valued they are. I have no reason not to believe them because some extreme fanatics have distorted their religion.
But you obviously tend to believe the fanatic extremists as it allows you to hang on to that prejudice you seem to need so much.

"I've debated with you before. I know what kind of a person you are. You make my skin crawl. And btw, hell yes I am prejudiced towards the oppression of others. "

Oh no!!! I make your skin crawl??? Whatever will I do? I KNOW! Not give a rat's ass about your ignorant, uneducated, prejudiced, hateful, idiotic comments. If anything, any insult coming from you is a compliment, I wouldn't want someone like you liking me, yikes! So thanks!
Carry on spreading your crap all over the place. There's a reason why people are jumping on your neck and no one except you has jumped on mine: you're not a very nice person, dear. Not many people like little bigots like you.
Pressing IGNORE on your bigotry! Babble away

Sharon

No, sweetie. I think all religions are equally ridiculous, and I'm not talking about suicide bombers here. I'm talking treating women like ignorant property, which is a very common practice in many, if not most, religions and some just happen to be more extreme than others. I have friends that are Muslim. I have a couple that have recently moved from the middle east. They personally know gay people who were killed and have told me in detail what marriage is like for an Arab woman. They did not tell me for shock value. They were speaking casually.

I've never seen anyone spend more time on cafemom than you. I have trouble believing you aren't as influenced as you say you are by the mainstream, or at least you must be so incredibly bored with your constricted lifestyle that this website and debating happier women on it is your only fun.

And yes, I must be a bigot because I don't think people should be oppressed because of their gender, and I don't think religion gives anyone a right to hurt others.

I really wonder if you hear yourself, and if after so many debates you really still believe your bs. Maybe you're just a troll. I'm not sure.

So, you condone statutory rape and infant mutilation. Do you draw the line anywhere at all? Some cultures bury children alive, some Indians throw infants off of buildings (most considered that horrendous, but not circumcision...), etc. etc.

If I bashed my child's nose in with a hammer as an offering to my gods I could claim it's a cultural ritual and you would congratulate me on a job well done?

I could offer my 8 year old daughter as a bride to a 55 year old man and you would be happy for her?

I don't know how you justify these things to yourself. It further supports my opinion of your mental state.



You're a nasty piece of work. And not too smart

This must be Sharon, unless you're referring to Sharon's outrageous comments...

I think women on this site just argue for the sake of argument whether they disagree or not. I've had so many women defend racism, sexism, abuse, violence, endangering children, etc. as if those things simply have a time and a place, or are okay if you give them a different label.

I'm sorry, but wrong is wrong no matter how much you want to justify your bad decisions. You need to start taking responsibility.

It's funny how in Sharon's view being prejudiced against a harmful religion is terrible, but being sexist and abusive is just fine and wonderful.

The concept of circumcision has no redeeming quality to a rational mind. Why can't you be honest with yourself instead of grasping for any crazy word or concept that you think might put it into a better light?


baileymarie723
by Silver Member on Nov. 23, 2012 at 7:24 PM
1 mom liked this
They didn't lie to me. There are pros and cons to EVERY medical procedure including circumcisions. Whether you'd like to believe it or not there ARE medical benefits to having a baby circumcised. I don't have a boy, but if I ever do I will take MY DOCTOR's advise over an OPINION on Cafemom when it comes to circumcising MY child. I also asked my husband his feelings on this topic to see what he'd say and he is also glad he is circumcised because it is easier to keep himself clean there.

Quoting Anonymous:


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WardosWifey
by on Nov. 23, 2012 at 7:25 PM
1 mom liked this

You posting this (or anyone else posting this same damn beat-up topic) is NOT going to deter anyone from doing what they think is best for their child.  I don't have boys but if I did I would circumsize him.  And it's none of your damn business or anyone else's WHY I would choose to do so.


Anonymous
by Anonymous 83 on Nov. 25, 2012 at 10:14 PM

It shouldnt be a parents choice - it should be the boys choice when he is old enough.  It's not your body don't go cutting things off it, I don't care what YOUR "preference" is. 

Anonymous
by Anonymous 83 on Nov. 25, 2012 at 10:16 PM

Because he would know how incredibly difficult it must be to keep an intact penis clean? A little biased I think. 

Quoting baileymarie723:

They didn't lie to me. There are pros and cons to EVERY medical procedure including circumcisions. Whether you'd like to believe it or not there ARE medical benefits to having a baby circumcised. I don't have a boy, but if I ever do I will take MY DOCTOR's advise over an OPINION on Cafemom when it comes to circumcising MY child. I also asked my husband his feelings on this topic to see what he'd say and he is also glad he is circumcised because it is easier to keep himself clean there.

Quoting Anonymous:



wulfeyes05
by Ruby Member on Nov. 25, 2012 at 10:20 PM
1 mom liked this
This is from a guy who got circumcised

Growing up, the foreskin was not too great an issue, I was taught from an early age how to clean myself and practised proper penile hygiene. I was aware that I did not look like most of my class mates, but I must admit it was never too much of an issue. It was not until my teens that I noticed that my penis would develop an 'smell', to put it one way. Despite morning showers, by the afternoon my penis would start to develop a slight odour, not strong, and not noticeable to others, but noticeable to me.

If I missed a shower, say because I was camping, the odour grew stronger, and in cases such as these smegma would start to build up under the foreskin rather quickly. As a result, where possible I would wash twice a day. I noticed while living in Europe (where circumcision is in the minority), that many men would have a strong odour, like the one I was familiar with, in winter. When thinking that in countries such as Italy and regions of France, showers are a once or biweekly affair in winter, I could understand why this odour could become so strong.

As I got older and sexual relations developed, I also noticed the difficulty of using a condom on an uncircumcised penis. To have the condom stay put whilst the foreskin under it moved back and forth was almost impossible, on several occasions it came close to coming off and once actually did. Post sex hygiene I discovered was also a big issue, as ejaculate and fluids would collect under the foreskin, and if left would develop into an unpleasant paste.

At this point I must say that my foreskin could cover the glans (head) of my erect penis. If the skin had been shorter, this might have been less of an issue. From a woman's point of view, no partner ever had anything negative to say about the foreskin (and I have had girlfriends from many parts of the planet). Only once, in a discussion with an American girlfriend when living in the US, did I hear that she thought a circumcised penis looked more aesthetic; that was it though and we had a great sex life. It was not until my present partner, and wife, did I hear a woman say that she did not like the idea of a foreskin.

I began to think about circumcision after an experiment an earlier partner and I tried for fun. During intercourse (without a condom), she held back my foreskin, and the difference to both of us was immediate and amazing. To me it no longer felt as if I were masturbating through a rubber glove, I could actually feel my partner and all her textures. For her, the sealing comment was "oh wow that's good". It got me thinking, and in some ways explained why up until that point I thought intercourse was an overrated activity. This together with the continued hygiene issues made me decide to have a circumcision.

Several years later I finally got around to having it done. I saw a local GP who after questioning me as to why I wanted it done, referred me to a general surgeon. After a simple discussion and examination we set the date for the procedure under general anaesthetic. The procedure lasted an hour and recovery took a week or two. Several 'cosmetic' issues arose from the procedure, but those are outlined below.

That was close to ten years ago now, and since that time I consider it to be the best decision I have made. Hygiene is no longer an issue, the lack of foreskin keeps the penis clean at all times. Nor have I noticed ANY loss of sensation. On the contrary, I find intercourse improved 10 fold since the circumcision. The few microns the skin that the glans may have thickened makes no difference at all to sexual receptiveness and I find it in some ways it is more sensitive.

It annoys me that the anti circumcision lobby creates so many myths and lies about circumcision in order to prove their point. I even read somewhere that one of them thought it was uncomfortable to ride a bike because he was circumcised! Being a serious cyclist, I have never heard such guff! All I can say about these people is this: a man who is circumcised (and has been from birth) that says having a foreskin is better has no grounds for comparison. A woman who champions foreskins can and never will have any idea what it's like to have a foreskin, let alone a penis. And an uncircumcised man who says that having a foreskin is best is in the same boat as the circumcised man, as he has nothing to benchmark against. Men who contribute their life's misgivings, bad sex lives, whatever, on their circumcision do so because it's an easy target. Sex is in the brain, not between one's legs. Just remember that there are tens of millions of very happy circumcised men around the planet enjoying their lives and sex.

From my experiences though I have learnt a few things that are very rarely talked about when discussing circumcision. They are as follows and I feel should apply when talking to a doctor about having a circumcision or having one performed on your son.

1. Ask the doctor/surgeon about what 'style' of circumcision they perform. I did not know about this, nor was it offered to me by my surgeon, but there are three basic styles of circumcision: low, mid and high. These refer to the point at which the 'suture' line is placed. A low circumcision places the suture line very close to the head of the penis. The net result of this is that most, if not all, the 'inner' sensitive skin is removed. This skin is the hot topic for anti circumcision groups and I would agree that if it is removed there will be a loss of sensitive tissue netting in diminished sexual sensations .

I would guess that adult men who have been circumcised and then complain of the loss of sexual sensation must have had a 'low' cut. Mid apparently is the norm for most infants and it removes an equal amount of inner and outer skin. This is what was performed on me, and I have no complaints. On an adult, the suture line is approx about 25mm or 1" from the head of the erect penis. A high circumcision leaves a large amount of the sensitive inner skin but apparently can cause issues if it's too high such as excessive skin stretching. Another name for this is a 'tight' circumcision, because the skin of the shaft is tight when erect and when flaccid there is no loose skin. A mid will have a degree of loose, or wrinkled, skin when flaccid (not enough to cover the head) and though taut when erect, the skin still has some movement.
2. In the case of an adult circumcision the surgeon should use fine non dissolving sutures. In my case the surgeon used dissolving sutures which prematurely dissolved and caused a reaction in the healing. The net result was that the suture line healed unevenly with small rows of fleshy lumps that formed between the sutures. Though causing no problems they were unsightly, as such I had them removed (which was like having a half circumcision!), a process that involved more sutures!! They have been removed very successfully, leaving no trace. In case you are wondering, the removal of very fine sutures involves no pain.

3. Ask if the frenulum will be removed. This area is very sensitive. I am lucky in that the surgeon left mine intact. An overly tight frenulum will need to be removed regardless (or will break on its own accord), but if it is normal it should be kept, or at least left to develop at its own accord. In many infant circumcisions, even when the frenulum is left it may not fully develop, and can appear as if it was removed.

4. Do not be afraid to ask your surgeon any questions about circumcision. Ask what method they use, how many they perform (or how experience they are), what style they usually do etc. etc. They should not have any hesitation in talking to you and in many ways should offer much of this information on their own accord. In my case the surgeon offered nothing and I did not know what I know now; I was not happy with the cosmetic results, leading to further, though minor, procedures to correct his 'tardy' work, though now I am a happy camper!
wulfeyes05
by Ruby Member on Nov. 25, 2012 at 10:21 PM
1 mom liked this
Here's another one


21-year old man says sex more spontaneous and girlfriend gets more stimulation

"I have just finished reading your 'Benefits of Circumcision' web page and may I say how enlightening it is to see a well documented web page that isn't anti-circumcision. I am 21 years old and underwent circumcision about 18 months ago because I had always considered it to be healthier both for my partner and me. I was also in a position to have it done both discretely and without affecting my employment. Since having it done I have been very happy with the result, as has my girlfriend of six years.

She is amazed at how much better my penis feels inside her vagina, adamant that she gets far more stimulation from my circumcised penis. She is also impressed with how much cleaner it is. Sex, particularly oral sex, is much more frequent and spontaneous since having had it done, as the off-putting possibility of smegma accumulation isn't an issue to be considered now.

Having read all your accounts of the benefits of foreskin removal I am even more pleased and convinced that I did the right thing. Congratulations on excellent work. I hope there is an increase in the number of pages dedicated to promoting the benefits of circumcision."
baileymarie723
by Silver Member on Nov. 26, 2012 at 6:01 PM
He has ways of knowing that I am not going to explain to you. We are not going to agree, so you can have your opinion and I'll keep mine.

Quoting Anonymous:


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Reepicheep.CSL
by on Nov. 26, 2012 at 6:13 PM
Did you ever consider that diet, lack of exercise and general ennui has had a much larger role in erectile dysfunction than circumcision, which has been happening for thousands of years?
That's nice that you don't circumcize your sons, but stop trying to push your ways on others. I don't feed my kids junk food....you MUST stop feeding them junk food or you are doing them an injustice. Look at how many adults have to work hard to create healthy eating habits because people like you feed their kids junk food. The complications may not be present at first, but they will come at a vengeance later......

FYI, if so many men try to reverse it, why have I never met one of these men? Statistically I should have if their numbers are so large as you imply. After all I have 4 brothers, 27 male cousins, 5 brother in laws and many extended male family members. Surely at least one should be seeking a way to reverse this.... And obviously they should also be very angry that their parents did this to them....
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