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WHEN IS A BABY CONSIDERED A LIFE

Posted by Anonymous   + Show Post

 

Poll

Question: WHEN IS A BABY CONSIDERED A LIFE

Options:

ALWAYS

1-4 MONTHS PREG

5-6 MONTHS PREG

7-9 MONTHS PREG

DEPENDS ON YOUR BELIEF


Only group members can vote in this poll.

Total Votes: 346

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WHEN YOUR PREGO.. WHEN IS A BABY CONSIDERED A LIFE. I REMEMBER WATCHING SNAP AND A LADY WENT TO JAIL FOR TWO MURDERS FOR SHOOTING A PREGO WOMEN THAT WAS 5 MONTHS PREGNANT.


ANOTHER STORY WERE A MAN WAS ONLY CHARGED WITH ONE MURDER BECAUSE SHE WAS ONLY 7 WEEKS PREG.

Posted by Anonymous on Dec. 29, 2012 at 7:00 PM
Replies (271-277):
Anonymous
by Anonymous 44 on Jan. 3, 2013 at 12:08 AM

 at conception...here in Tx if you kill someone who is pregnant and the baby dies they could be charged with two counts of capital murder

JanuaryBaby06
by Gold Member on Jan. 3, 2013 at 12:12 AM

when is a baby considered a life? i would of phrased it when is a fetus considered a life?  i say its alive more or less from the get go but its more of a clump of cells or a parasite then a person until it is at the point where the baby could sustain life without you. so like between 22-24weeks maybe? once the baby is able to surrivie without the mother i considered it a different life from the life of the mother.

5months along? yeah that should be a homicide but 7 weeks... so many different things could happen at 7 weeks..... stats are not really on your side at that point and your chance at miscarrying are kind of high.

Bellarose0212
by Gold Member on Jan. 3, 2013 at 12:18 AM

So what happened with you and your kids?

Just curious.

Quoting Anonymous:

No, what I said was: "I considered an abortion at 28 weeks because I was PROM and would need to be hospitalized for the remainder of my pregnancy if I were to continue with the pregnancy."

My doctors were not going to induce my labor because I was unwilling to stay hospitalized anymore than they would have been willing to induce at 28 weeks because I wanted to go on vacation.

However, even though I lived in a state that restricts third term abortions, an abortion was a choice available because I had premature rupture of membrane, which can be life-threatening due to infection and hemorrhaging. It was something that was unlikely to happen as long as I remained hospitalized. The risks skyrocket if the pregnant woman stays on bedrest at home. While I was filling out the paperwork to leave, the doctors came in with horror stories of the PROM women who had died, or whose babies had suffered defects, disabilities, or painful deaths because they decided to leave AMA (against medical advice). The result of this was that I realized that if I was committed to going home and no longer living in that hospital, then the safest thing for me, and therefore my family, would be for me to terminate the pregnancy.

Anonymous
by Anonymous 32 on Jan. 3, 2013 at 10:37 PM

legally speaking any child is "an infant" until they are "an adult" - weird huh?  My 16 year old neice is STILL "an infant" according to the courts.

The whole "mourning" a biological function, menstraution, ejaculation is just plain silly - and I dont think there is anyone who isn't actively TTC who does.

I'm assuming (and yes, I know what it means) that you are carrying a fetus about 20 weeks.   I'm hoping you carry it for many more.     At least 18 would be good.    Because I think that losing this fetus would be as painful as losing a "baby".

I don't think there is a woman in the world who has ever had a BFP who wasn't happy for at least a blip of a second about the idea of a baby....

Sincerely,

PollyAnna

Quoting Bellarose0212:

I think it is always a fetus. I tried to conceive and am happy about this pregnancy, but I am still carrying a fetus. Fetus is the term for the developmental age, it doesn't mean unwanted. I use the word fetus about this... fetus... too. lol.

Baby is a more informal term and we just use it because it is more cutsie and affectionate to say than fetus. Like, we say baby instead of infant for the first 12 months, even though infant is also accurate and doesn't mean that the baby is less wanted. Also, often, when we are talking about a pregnancy we are talking about the future... "when this baby is born..." when it WILL be a human infant, otherwise known as baby.

I know what you mean though, I don't think what makes it a life worth preserving or not is how the mother feels about it alone.

I think that is a potent question- when is that magic transition when it does turn from a fertilized egg which really, we can't all mourn for because that would be silly (they come out on the period pad often enough without us even noticing), and a human worthy of protection. It's so hard to say, I certianly don't have the answer. I agree that a 30-week fetus is no different in terms of needing protection than a 40-week just-born infant. But, I do see a difference between a blastocyst/zygote/embryo and a fetus at a later gestation. I don't know when that time is. I hope science has some answers for us. I think research into brain activity and pain receptors could provide good insight into that.

Quoting Anonymous:

my problem is it seems to be a "state of mind" instead of a date...

If you are 5 weeks pg - and happy - it's a baby.   If you are 11 weeks pg, and not - it's a fetus.  And the demand for earlier pg tests is amazing.

I'm with you legaly - for the laws, and support them.   But reallly, what it seems to be coming down to is it's a baby if you want it and a fetus if you don't.   When, biologically (scientifacally) we are talking about the same "matter".

Here's another question for you - the who Lacey Peterson case.....I'm so glad they charged him for the murder of their fulll term "fetus" -  IF you want the baby, and someone causes that fetus to not be born,(not through a legal medical procedure, but because of violence towards you awhat gestational stage do you think that should be considered murder?

And - how do we, as a society decide WHEN the magical moment is.

Do you remember the EXACT moment when your baby turned into a toddler?   Or your toddler into a pre-schooler?  

Quoting Bellarose0212:

Well, it's always a life. Lots of things are alive though. Animals, bugs, even bacteria. I don't think whether it is alive is the question.

The question is whether it - that is, a fetus or an unborn baby (whatever term you use), can be awarded the same rights as a born human being while still in the womb.

That's a really hard question for me to answer. I don't know. I am pro-choice as far as the laws go, but I personally would not abort for almost any reason I can think of except for life-threatening illness for me (baby won't survive if I die anyway) or non-viable fetus (like an ectopic pregnancy).

I do definitely see a difference between a blastocyst or a zygote and a 30-week fetus though. The death of a 30-week fetus is much more important to me than a discarded blastocyst on the menstrual napkin. So, I don't think a fertilized egg at conception or implantation is equal to a born baby, no. I think having plan-B as an option to prevent abortion is a good thing. After that, I think the earlier the better. For instance, a 20 week abortion sounds much more horrific to me than a 6-week abortion.

I get what they are going for with the viability logic but I'm not sure if it is sound. The idea is that if you don't want to be pregnant at viability, the baby COULD live outside of the mother's body. But, is it possible to induce a 23 week fetus and abandon that baby instead of having an abortion? Or would no doctor agree to it and you might be brought up on charges? So, then, mom is stuck with the fetus for more time. IDK. I think research about pain receptors in the brain might be a better place to look for the legal cut off. Somewhere in the first trimester, I think it should be.

It's so hard to say because I am personally (as in for myself) so pro-life that I wouldn't consider plan-b or birth control pills or IUDs for fear of disposing of fertilized eggs or causing an ectopic pregnancy that I would need to abort. I do believe in preventing abortions, just not by making them illegal. I think access to healthcare including birth control and maternity care if you do get pregnant, comprehensive sex education, better support for single and young moms (both financially and societally), etc. would help to reduce abortion rates.

Anyway, I don't know when it becomes a human life worthy of legal protection but I definitely do see a difference between this:

fertilized egg/blastocyst






and this:

 20 week fetus

So, for me, it is somewhere in between.




mydarlingsofia
by on Jan. 3, 2013 at 10:40 PM
They breathe in the womb.

Quoting Anonymous:

Too me not until they can breath in their own.
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
Bellarose0212
by Gold Member on Jan. 4, 2013 at 3:14 AM

I'm scratching my head just a bit about parts of your reply, but okay.

I did not know that about the term infant. That's a good bit of trivia. I looked it up and it is one of two definitions. One definition refers to a young child or baby. The other is a synonym for the term minor, so not a legal adult.

I added the comment about mourning for a fertilized egg because I was saying that I don't see that as being equivalent to an older fetus or baby. Some people do, as evidenced in this thread, believe that a fertilized egg is equivalent to a baby at conception... even before implantation. I can't see those two being the same and many fertilized eggs don't implant and are discarded on menstrual pads. So, I was saying, I don't know when the magic moment is but I do think it is post-conception because I see a difference between a fertilized egg and a 20 week fetus.

Good guess... what made you guess 20 weeks? I'm 24 week pregnant. Of course I wish to carry this fetus to term. Of course, I understand that pregnancy loss, especially late-term pregnancy loss, involves grief. I think the point of my comments was that I do so the value in unborn life but don't know the magic moment when that being is worthy of protection. The loss of a 6-week embryo would be very different to me than the loss of a 24-week fetus... so I see a difference. I don't personally know when exactly legal protection should be offered... that's a hard question.

Oh... I think you are wrong about that. Just, wrong. I'm sure there are many women/girls to whom a positive pregnancy test means nothing but misery and dread. I have never been in such a situation but I know that there are all sorts of terrible ones in the world.

Quoting Anonymous:

legally speaking any child is "an infant" until they are "an adult" - weird huh?  My 16 year old neice is STILL "an infant" according to the courts.

The whole "mourning" a biological function, menstraution, ejaculation is just plain silly - and I dont think there is anyone who isn't actively TTC who does.

I'm assuming (and yes, I know what it means) that you are carrying a fetus about 20 weeks.   I'm hoping you carry it for many more.     At least 18 would be good.    Because I think that losing this fetus would be as painful as losing a "baby".

I don't think there is a woman in the world who has ever had a BFP who wasn't happy for at least a blip of a second about the idea of a baby....

Sincerely,

PollyAnna

Quoting Bellarose0212:

I think it is always a fetus. I tried to conceive and am happy about this pregnancy, but I am still carrying a fetus. Fetus is the term for the developmental age, it doesn't mean unwanted. I use the word fetus about this... fetus... too. lol.

Baby is a more informal term and we just use it because it is more cutsie and affectionate to say than fetus. Like, we say baby instead of infant for the first 12 months, even though infant is also accurate and doesn't mean that the baby is less wanted. Also, often, when we are talking about a pregnancy we are talking about the future... "when this baby is born..." when it WILL be a human infant, otherwise known as baby.

I know what you mean though, I don't think what makes it a life worth preserving or not is how the mother feels about it alone.

I think that is a potent question- when is that magic transition when it does turn from a fertilized egg which really, we can't all mourn for because that would be silly (they come out on the period pad often enough without us even noticing), and a human worthy of protection. It's so hard to say, I certianly don't have the answer. I agree that a 30-week fetus is no different in terms of needing protection than a 40-week just-born infant. But, I do see a difference between a blastocyst/zygote/embryo and a fetus at a later gestation. I don't know when that time is. I hope science has some answers for us. I think research into brain activity and pain receptors could provide good insight into that.

Quoting Anonymous:

my problem is it seems to be a "state of mind" instead of a date...

If you are 5 weeks pg - and happy - it's a baby.   If you are 11 weeks pg, and not - it's a fetus.  And the demand for earlier pg tests is amazing.

I'm with you legaly - for the laws, and support them.   But reallly, what it seems to be coming down to is it's a baby if you want it and a fetus if you don't.   When, biologically (scientifacally) we are talking about the same "matter".

Here's another question for you - the who Lacey Peterson case.....I'm so glad they charged him for the murder of their fulll term "fetus" -  IF you want the baby, and someone causes that fetus to not be born,(not through a legal medical procedure, but because of violence towards you awhat gestational stage do you think that should be considered murder?

And - how do we, as a society decide WHEN the magical moment is.

Do you remember the EXACT moment when your baby turned into a toddler?   Or your toddler into a pre-schooler?  

Quoting Bellarose0212:

Well, it's always a life. Lots of things are alive though. Animals, bugs, even bacteria. I don't think whether it is alive is the question.

The question is whether it - that is, a fetus or an unborn baby (whatever term you use), can be awarded the same rights as a born human being while still in the womb.

That's a really hard question for me to answer. I don't know. I am pro-choice as far as the laws go, but I personally would not abort for almost any reason I can think of except for life-threatening illness for me (baby won't survive if I die anyway) or non-viable fetus (like an ectopic pregnancy).

I do definitely see a difference between a blastocyst or a zygote and a 30-week fetus though. The death of a 30-week fetus is much more important to me than a discarded blastocyst on the menstrual napkin. So, I don't think a fertilized egg at conception or implantation is equal to a born baby, no. I think having plan-B as an option to prevent abortion is a good thing. After that, I think the earlier the better. For instance, a 20 week abortion sounds much more horrific to me than a 6-week abortion.

I get what they are going for with the viability logic but I'm not sure if it is sound. The idea is that if you don't want to be pregnant at viability, the baby COULD live outside of the mother's body. But, is it possible to induce a 23 week fetus and abandon that baby instead of having an abortion? Or would no doctor agree to it and you might be brought up on charges? So, then, mom is stuck with the fetus for more time. IDK. I think research about pain receptors in the brain might be a better place to look for the legal cut off. Somewhere in the first trimester, I think it should be.

It's so hard to say because I am personally (as in for myself) so pro-life that I wouldn't consider plan-b or birth control pills or IUDs for fear of disposing of fertilized eggs or causing an ectopic pregnancy that I would need to abort. I do believe in preventing abortions, just not by making them illegal. I think access to healthcare including birth control and maternity care if you do get pregnant, comprehensive sex education, better support for single and young moms (both financially and societally), etc. would help to reduce abortion rates.

Anyway, I don't know when it becomes a human life worthy of legal protection but I definitely do see a difference between this:

fertilized egg/blastocyst






and this:

 20 week fetus

So, for me, it is somewhere in between.





Anonymous
by Anonymous 32 on Jan. 4, 2013 at 10:41 PM

I guessed 20 weeks because that was the "fetus" picture you posted.

But you wouldn't have a 20 week (or 24 week - which is now, while questionable potentionally viable) fetus if you didn't have the moment of conception.   

Preventing conception - totally different concept.   People have been trying to prevent conception for years.    Smaller families are one of the differences between 3rd and 1st world countries.

And, I think even those women who don't want to be pregnant, who have been maimed, harmed and are in dangerous situations do have at least a blip of happiness.   Because what is the idea of a baby but hope for the future.    The reality may not exist, but I don't believe that ANY woman who has an illtimed pregnancy no matter what her final choice didn't touch her belly and wonder "what if'.

As for "infant" - it may not show up in a dictionary - but in legal documents, that is what is used.   Call a family lawyer and ask the secretary - I'm sure she'll know.

Good luck with your fetus.  I hope it doesn't have colic. ;)

Quoting Bellarose0212:

I'm scratching my head just a bit about parts of your reply, but okay.

I did not know that about the term infant. That's a good bit of trivia. I looked it up and it is one of two definitions. One definition refers to a young child or baby. The other is a synonym for the term minor, so not a legal adult.

I added the comment about mourning for a fertilized egg because I was saying that I don't see that as being equivalent to an older fetus or baby. Some people do, as evidenced in this thread, believe that a fertilized egg is equivalent to a baby at conception... even before implantation. I can't see those two being the same and many fertilized eggs don't implant and are discarded on menstrual pads. So, I was saying, I don't know when the magic moment is but I do think it is post-conception because I see a difference between a fertilized egg and a 20 week fetus.

Good guess... what made you guess 20 weeks? I'm 24 week pregnant. Of course I wish to carry this fetus to term. Of course, I understand that pregnancy loss, especially late-term pregnancy loss, involves grief. I think the point of my comments was that I do so the value in unborn life but don't know the magic moment when that being is worthy of protection. The loss of a 6-week embryo would be very different to me than the loss of a 24-week fetus... so I see a difference. I don't personally know when exactly legal protection should be offered... that's a hard question.

Oh... I think you are wrong about that. Just, wrong. I'm sure there are many women/girls to whom a positive pregnancy test means nothing but misery and dread. I have never been in such a situation but I know that there are all sorts of terrible ones in the world.

Quoting Anonymous:

legally speaking any child is "an infant" until they are "an adult" - weird huh?  My 16 year old neice is STILL "an infant" according to the courts.

The whole "mourning" a biological function, menstraution, ejaculation is just plain silly - and I dont think there is anyone who isn't actively TTC who does.

I'm assuming (and yes, I know what it means) that you are carrying a fetus about 20 weeks.   I'm hoping you carry it for many more.     At least 18 would be good.    Because I think that losing this fetus would be as painful as losing a "baby".

I don't think there is a woman in the world who has ever had a BFP who wasn't happy for at least a blip of a second about the idea of a baby....

Sincerely,

PollyAnna

Quoting Bellarose0212:

I think it is always a fetus. I tried to conceive and am happy about this pregnancy, but I am still carrying a fetus. Fetus is the term for the developmental age, it doesn't mean unwanted. I use the word fetus about this... fetus... too. lol.

Baby is a more informal term and we just use it because it is more cutsie and affectionate to say than fetus. Like, we say baby instead of infant for the first 12 months, even though infant is also accurate and doesn't mean that the baby is less wanted. Also, often, when we are talking about a pregnancy we are talking about the future... "when this baby is born..." when it WILL be a human infant, otherwise known as baby.

I know what you mean though, I don't think what makes it a life worth preserving or not is how the mother feels about it alone.

I think that is a potent question- when is that magic transition when it does turn from a fertilized egg which really, we can't all mourn for because that would be silly (they come out on the period pad often enough without us even noticing), and a human worthy of protection. It's so hard to say, I certianly don't have the answer. I agree that a 30-week fetus is no different in terms of needing protection than a 40-week just-born infant. But, I do see a difference between a blastocyst/zygote/embryo and a fetus at a later gestation. I don't know when that time is. I hope science has some answers for us. I think research into brain activity and pain receptors could provide good insight into that.

Quoting Anonymous:

my problem is it seems to be a "state of mind" instead of a date...

If you are 5 weeks pg - and happy - it's a baby.   If you are 11 weeks pg, and not - it's a fetus.  And the demand for earlier pg tests is amazing.

I'm with you legaly - for the laws, and support them.   But reallly, what it seems to be coming down to is it's a baby if you want it and a fetus if you don't.   When, biologically (scientifacally) we are talking about the same "matter".

Here's another question for you - the who Lacey Peterson case.....I'm so glad they charged him for the murder of their fulll term "fetus" -  IF you want the baby, and someone causes that fetus to not be born,(not through a legal medical procedure, but because of violence towards you awhat gestational stage do you think that should be considered murder?

And - how do we, as a society decide WHEN the magical moment is.

Do you remember the EXACT moment when your baby turned into a toddler?   Or your toddler into a pre-schooler?  

Quoting Bellarose0212:

Well, it's always a life. Lots of things are alive though. Animals, bugs, even bacteria. I don't think whether it is alive is the question.

The question is whether it - that is, a fetus or an unborn baby (whatever term you use), can be awarded the same rights as a born human being while still in the womb.

That's a really hard question for me to answer. I don't know. I am pro-choice as far as the laws go, but I personally would not abort for almost any reason I can think of except for life-threatening illness for me (baby won't survive if I die anyway) or non-viable fetus (like an ectopic pregnancy).

I do definitely see a difference between a blastocyst or a zygote and a 30-week fetus though. The death of a 30-week fetus is much more important to me than a discarded blastocyst on the menstrual napkin. So, I don't think a fertilized egg at conception or implantation is equal to a born baby, no. I think having plan-B as an option to prevent abortion is a good thing. After that, I think the earlier the better. For instance, a 20 week abortion sounds much more horrific to me than a 6-week abortion.

I get what they are going for with the viability logic but I'm not sure if it is sound. The idea is that if you don't want to be pregnant at viability, the baby COULD live outside of the mother's body. But, is it possible to induce a 23 week fetus and abandon that baby instead of having an abortion? Or would no doctor agree to it and you might be brought up on charges? So, then, mom is stuck with the fetus for more time. IDK. I think research about pain receptors in the brain might be a better place to look for the legal cut off. Somewhere in the first trimester, I think it should be.

It's so hard to say because I am personally (as in for myself) so pro-life that I wouldn't consider plan-b or birth control pills or IUDs for fear of disposing of fertilized eggs or causing an ectopic pregnancy that I would need to abort. I do believe in preventing abortions, just not by making them illegal. I think access to healthcare including birth control and maternity care if you do get pregnant, comprehensive sex education, better support for single and young moms (both financially and societally), etc. would help to reduce abortion rates.

Anyway, I don't know when it becomes a human life worthy of legal protection but I definitely do see a difference between this:

fertilized egg/blastocyst






and this:

 20 week fetus

So, for me, it is somewhere in between.






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