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Im sorry but if your on PA, you dont need to be ttc

Posted by Anonymous   + Show Post
Agree or disagree
Posted by Anonymous on Jan. 3, 2013 at 10:57 PM
Replies (551-560):
OneToughMami
by Ruby Member on Jan. 4, 2013 at 8:10 PM

Not nearly enought time to write an essay but if your MIL is psycho then well...I guess you really wanted to hide so you just look for stuff to do I suppose. I'm just trying to go get some index cards and pistachios but my husband is messing around with his computer -_- like just get a new one it's done.

Quoting Anonymous:

Probably that you have enough time to be on here, too. My MIL is still here, too. So, maybe I'm technically hiding out. She won't leave. I think she's taking that "twelve days of Christmas" song literally.

Quoting OneToughMami: Um my house is also clean and both my husband and I make good money so I am not really sure what you are trying to say here? lol
Quoting Anonymous: Yeah, my husband makes really good money and my house is clean.
Quoting OneToughMami: You clearly have much more time on your hands than I do.
Quoting Anonymous: I know you said other things in addition to cash assistance. But I disagree that most people on Cafemom are referring to cash assistance when they talk about PA, because when I heard "Welfare" I thought everyone was talking about TANF, since it used to be called Welfare. So, I was confused when I heard so many users saying that generations were perpetuating a Welfare cycle, raising children on Welfare so that those children would continue to raise children n Welfare. I countered that there was a lifetime limit on TANF, and was told repeatedly that when people were talking about Welfare or PA, they were usually referring to programs that had no limit. SNAP was definitely the program I've heard most cited. But section 8 housing and Medicaid are especially disliked, probably because although a smaller percentage of the population lives their lives on them, these programs cost the government more than food programs like SNAP and WIC.


And if you say that when you think of animals native to North America, people think about the Grizzly Bear, the oppussum, and the lion, I probably would tell you that I don't think many people think about the lion when they think of North American animals. This would not mean you had never said anything about bears and oppossums. It would mean that the lion struck me as a choice I didn't think most people thought of, and I was remarking on that.

I never said you did not know things. I never said I had to explain anything to you. Since we are openly discussing this, and not pm'ing, we both realize that others will see this. I certainly did not always know as much as I know about these programs. Much of my knowledge came from researching in order to confirm or disprove information that others shared with me. As this is a public forum, I share my words with everyone who cares to read them, and assume that if they read anything they were unfamiliar with, they would fact check my ass. There is no judgement through the act of sharing. Putting out information does not mean that the author assumes the reader is stupid. I truly do wish to give you credit for intelligence. I would not find it worthwhile to discuss this with you if I thought you were stupid.

I don't think I'm trying to change oinions-- just share. Originally, you said that you disagree with women trying to conceive while using public assistance. I assumed this meant you disagreed with such family planning for people who qualified for the EITC, since this is means tested like any other form of public assistance. Then you responded, and I get it now. You don't count the EITC as public assistance. You acknowledge that it is technically public assistance, but it isn't the form of public assistance that come to your mind when you think of public assistance. So when you say you disagree with women trying to conceive while using public assistance, you really mean that you disagree with women trying to conceive while using the public assistance that comes to your mind when you think of public assistance, namely TANF, SNAP, and WIC.

You're right that I have no empiracle evidence of what the members of Cafemom think about when they think of terms like "Welfare" or "PA." All my evidence is anecdotal. I don't know how we can find out what's in the heads of all these members. Maybe we could take a poll?

You can refer to the programs however you'd like. I'll continue to refer to them as I think of them as well.

I try to listen with the sme passion that I speak. I care about how I present my thought, and I assume othres care about the way they present themselves. In a discussion, when one party suggests a synopsis of the other's position, this offers the other party the opportunity to confirm, expound, or deny. I guess it also offers the other party the chance to say, "Please go back and reread" because that's what you did.

I don't know. I thought it would be fun to talk about something I cared about. That's all. I can see you didn't think of this as fun, and I really am sorry for making this an unpleasant experience.

Quoting OneToughMami: I actually said cash assistance, food stamps, and WIC at one point. You clearly do not know this board as much as you think. Or you are choosing to believe that I have no idea what I am talking about and feel the need to over explain this.

My opinion isn't going to change because of the programs or what anyone here is referring to or not. I am not concerned about people who qualify for the EITC, I do care about people who are so destitute that they are receiving TANF (there I used the right term for you) because that means they have almost no income.

And if you haven't gotten what I personally was talking about by now please go back and reread because you have clearly been wasting time you could have dedicated to something else. I have nothing to do so I do not particularly care if you want to keep repeating yourself because you are assuming.

Quoting Anonymous:

Because you said most of the people on Cafemom are talking about TANF when they talk about PA. You either do not know this message board very well, or you do not know TANF very well. But I try to be informed and back up my information. In the beginning I thought most were talking about TANF and calling it Welfare or PA. I found that they were usually referring to SNAP, WIC, the Momcare division of Medicaid, low cost state insurance programs for children, and (just recently because tax season started and Mom Confessions just got over complaining about donating gifts to the children of undeserving parents) the EITC.

I think what you mean to say is that when you say PA, you mean TANF and SNAP.

Quoting OneToughMami: I am wondering why you feel the need to explain these programs to me like I do not know what they are?



Anonymous
by Anonymous on Jan. 4, 2013 at 8:19 PM

Honestly, while on here I've noticed that a lot of people were using the Earned Income Tax Credit and didn't even know it was PA. Often they didn't even know they were using it. They just put their info into Turbo tax or give it to the rep at Jackson Hewitt or H&R Block and BAM! they get a big refund. To that end, it's pretty much like PA that you would have to deliberately opt out of, rather than a traditional application process.

Mitt Romney wrote off the care and upkeep of his Olympic medaling horse because Ann Romney had a prescription from their doctor for a therapy animal. If we expect our presidential candidates to take advantage of every deduction and credit available to them, why would we expect low and middle income working families to avoid taking advantage of a credit just because it's technically PA?

Quoting Anonymous: Just because you qualify doesn't mean you need or use it.   If you can afford 6 kids on 50K without PA - more power to you.   Have 6 kids.
Quoting Anonymous: Preview of 2012 EITC Income Limits

$45,060 ($50,270 married filing jointly) with three or more qualifying children
$41,952 ($47,162 married filing jointly) with two qualifying children
$36,920 ($42,130 married filing jointly) with one qualifying child
$13,980 ($19,190 married filing jointly) with no qualifying children

You think people shouldn't expand their families unless they make more than this? That cuts out the family planning options of some of our military service members, law enforcement officers, firefighters, and teachers.

Anonymous
by Anonymous on Jan. 4, 2013 at 8:26 PM
I am like if u are on PA now why the heck would u bring more children in the world. Get your finances in check and then think about more kids
Anonymous
by Anonymous on Jan. 4, 2013 at 8:27 PM

Not psycho. She's just here. And then still here. The worst she's done is wash my clothes and ruin a shirt I had that was dry clean only. But if DH or DD had done it, I wouldn't have minded. So I think the only reason I needed to let my heartbeat return to its resting rate was that she's a houseguest. If DS had done it, I would have alerted the media (he's a baby). Each of my kids had appointments today. I shouldn't have had time to type that much. But I talk a lot. This was a lot like talking with my fingers.

I have to say, this would have never happened when we were on PA. She always stayed in a hotel when she visited back then.

Quoting OneToughMami: Not nearly enought time to write an essay but if your MIL is psycho then well...I guess you really wanted to hide so you just look for stuff to do I suppose. I'm just trying to go get some index cards and pistachios but my husband is messing around with his computer -_- like just get a new one it's done.
Quoting Anonymous: Probably that you have enough time to be on here, too. My MIL is still here, too. So, maybe I'm technically hiding out. She won't leave. I think she's taking that "twelve days of Christmas" song literally.
Quoting OneToughMami: Um my house is also clean and both my husband and I make good money so I am not really sure what you are trying to say here? lol
Quoting Anonymous: Yeah, my husband makes really good money and my house is clean.
Quoting OneToughMami: You clearly have much more time on your hands than I do.
Quoting Anonymous: I know you said other things in addition to cash assistance. But I disagree that most people on Cafemom are referring to cash assistance when they talk about PA, because when I heard "Welfare" I thought everyone was talking about TANF, since it used to be called Welfare. So, I was confused when I heard so many users saying that generations were perpetuating a Welfare cycle, raising children on Welfare so that those children would continue to raise children n Welfare. I countered that there was a lifetime limit on TANF, and was told repeatedly that when people were talking about Welfare or PA, they were usually referring to programs that had no limit. SNAP was definitely the program I've heard most cited. But section 8 housing and Medicaid are especially disliked, probably because although a smaller percentage of the population lives their lives on them, these programs cost the government more than food programs like SNAP and WIC.


And if you say that when you think of animals native to North America, people think about the Grizzly Bear, the oppussum, and the lion, I probably would tell you that I don't think many people think about the lion when they think of North American animals. This would not mean you had never said anything about bears and oppossums. It would mean that the lion struck me as a choice I didn't think most people thought of, and I was remarking on that.

I never said you did not know things. I never said I had to explain anything to you. Since we are openly discussing this, and not pm'ing, we both realize that others will see this. I certainly did not always know as much as I know about these programs. Much of my knowledge came from researching in order to confirm or disprove information that others shared with me. As this is a public forum, I share my words with everyone who cares to read them, and assume that if they read anything they were unfamiliar with, they would fact check my ass. There is no judgement through the act of sharing. Putting out information does not mean that the author assumes the reader is stupid. I truly do wish to give you credit for intelligence. I would not find it worthwhile to discuss this with you if I thought you were stupid.

I don't think I'm trying to change oinions-- just share. Originally, you said that you disagree with women trying to conceive while using public assistance. I assumed this meant you disagreed with such family planning for people who qualified for the EITC, since this is means tested like any other form of public assistance. Then you responded, and I get it now. You don't count the EITC as public assistance. You acknowledge that it is technically public assistance, but it isn't the form of public assistance that come to your mind when you think of public assistance. So when you say you disagree with women trying to conceive while using public assistance, you really mean that you disagree with women trying to conceive while using the public assistance that comes to your mind when you think of public assistance, namely TANF, SNAP, and WIC.

You're right that I have no empiracle evidence of what the members of Cafemom think about when they think of terms like "Welfare" or "PA." All my evidence is anecdotal. I don't know how we can find out what's in the heads of all these members. Maybe we could take a poll?

You can refer to the programs however you'd like. I'll continue to refer to them as I think of them as well.

I try to listen with the sme passion that I speak. I care about how I present my thought, and I assume othres care about the way they present themselves. In a discussion, when one party suggests a synopsis of the other's position, this offers the other party the opportunity to confirm, expound, or deny. I guess it also offers the other party the chance to say, "Please go back and reread" because that's what you did.

I don't know. I thought it would be fun to talk about something I cared about. That's all. I can see you didn't think of this as fun, and I really am sorry for making this an unpleasant experience.

Quoting OneToughMami: I actually said cash assistance, food stamps, and WIC at one point. You clearly do not know this board as much as you think. Or you are choosing to believe that I have no idea what I am talking about and feel the need to over explain this.

My opinion isn't going to change because of the programs or what anyone here is referring to or not. I am not concerned about people who qualify for the EITC, I do care about people who are so destitute that they are receiving TANF (there I used the right term for you) because that means they have almost no income.

And if you haven't gotten what I personally was talking about by now please go back and reread because you have clearly been wasting time you could have dedicated to something else. I have nothing to do so I do not particularly care if you want to keep repeating yourself because you are assuming.

Quoting Anonymous:

Because you said most of the people on Cafemom are talking about TANF when they talk about PA. You either do not know this message board very well, or you do not know TANF very well. But I try to be informed and back up my information. In the beginning I thought most were talking about TANF and calling it Welfare or PA. I found that they were usually referring to SNAP, WIC, the Momcare division of Medicaid, low cost state insurance programs for children, and (just recently because tax season started and Mom Confessions just got over complaining about donating gifts to the children of undeserving parents) the EITC.

I think what you mean to say is that when you say PA, you mean TANF and SNAP.

Quoting OneToughMami: I am wondering why you feel the need to explain these programs to me like I do not know what they are?



MyGirlsAbbyLiz
by on Jan. 4, 2013 at 8:30 PM

i dont consider an earned income credit to be PA seeing as its part of a tax return. its not a long term form of support.

Quoting Anonymous:

So, if a serviceman files his taxes and gets all of his federal withholding returned as well as additional monies as part of the Earned Income Tax Credit, which is PA, other people are supporting his family, so he should not have more children?

Quoting MyGirlsAbbyLiz: I said if they can't independently support their kids. Being on PA is not supporting them yourself,other people are.
Quoting Anonymous: Preview of 2012 EITC Income Limits

$45,060 ($50,270 married filing jointly) with three or more qualifying children
$41,952 ($47,162 married filing jointly) with two qualifying children
$36,920 ($42,130 married filing jointly) with one qualifying child
$13,980 ($19,190 married filing jointly) with no qualifying children

You think people shouldn't expand their families unless they make more than this? That cuts out the family planning options of some of our military service members, law enforcement officers, firefighters, and teachers.

Quoting MyGirlsAbbyLiz: Agree. If you can't independently support your kids you don't need more.


Anonymous
by Anonymous on Jan. 4, 2013 at 8:31 PM

That's a good point. This is about people who are already on PA. I guess that does shed light on this fictitious couple's financial situation. What about a couple who is not on PA, but plans to use it in order to have a child. (Like Medicaid's limited medical benefits for pregnant women.)

Quoting Anonymous: I am like if u are on PA now why the heck would u bring more children in the world. Get your finances in check and then think about more kids
Anonymous
by Anonymous on Jan. 4, 2013 at 8:33 PM

I never saw it as PA, either, until I got it hammered into me here that it's a means tested poverty reduction program, and therefore it is technicaly PA.

Quoting MyGirlsAbbyLiz: i dont consider an earned income credit to be PA seeing as its part of a tax return. its not a long term form of support.
Quoting Anonymous: So, if a serviceman files his taxes and gets all of his federal withholding returned as well as additional monies as part of the Earned Income Tax Credit, which is PA, other people are supporting his family, so he should not have more children?
Quoting MyGirlsAbbyLiz: I said if they can't independently support their kids. Being on PA is not supporting them yourself,other people are.
Quoting Anonymous: Preview of 2012 EITC Income Limits

$45,060 ($50,270 married filing jointly) with three or more qualifying children
$41,952 ($47,162 married filing jointly) with two qualifying children
$36,920 ($42,130 married filing jointly) with one qualifying child
$13,980 ($19,190 married filing jointly) with no qualifying children

You think people shouldn't expand their families unless they make more than this? That cuts out the family planning options of some of our military service members, law enforcement officers, firefighters, and teachers.

Quoting MyGirlsAbbyLiz: Agree. If you can't independently support your kids you don't need more.



OneToughMami
by Ruby Member on Jan. 4, 2013 at 8:46 PM

Downfall of moving on up in the world I suppose. I tell them we no longer have the sofa bed that our dog ate the mattress. They don't need to know that it was almost 4 years ago that our couch was destroyed by a dog who has since passed.

Quoting Anonymous:

Not psycho. She's just here. And then still here. The worst she's done is wash my clothes and ruin a shirt I had that was dry clean only. But if DH or DD had done it, I wouldn't have minded. So I think the only reason I needed to let my heartbeat return to its resting rate was that she's a houseguest. If DS had done it, I would have alerted the media (he's a baby). Each of my kids had appointments today. I shouldn't have had time to type that much. But I talk a lot. This was a lot like talking with my fingers.

I have to say, this would have never happened when we were on PA. She always stayed in a hotel when she visited back then.


OneToughMami
by Ruby Member on Jan. 4, 2013 at 8:47 PM

But you know what's god damn hilarious is that hardly any of them want to consider student loans and grants government assistance even though it is listed and I proved it...someone told me the US governments benefits site was incorrect.

Quoting Anonymous:

I never saw it as PA, either, until I got it hammered into me here that it's a means tested poverty reduction program, and therefore it is technicaly PA.

Quoting MyGirlsAbbyLiz: i dont consider an earned income credit to be PA seeing as its part of a tax return. its not a long term form of support.
Quoting Anonymous: So, if a serviceman files his taxes and gets all of his federal withholding returned as well as additional monies as part of the Earned Income Tax Credit, which is PA, other people are supporting his family, so he should not have more children?
Quoting MyGirlsAbbyLiz: I said if they can't independently support their kids. Being on PA is not supporting them yourself,other people are.
Quoting Anonymous: Preview of 2012 EITC Income Limits

$45,060 ($50,270 married filing jointly) with three or more qualifying children
$41,952 ($47,162 married filing jointly) with two qualifying children
$36,920 ($42,130 married filing jointly) with one qualifying child
$13,980 ($19,190 married filing jointly) with no qualifying children

You think people shouldn't expand their families unless they make more than this? That cuts out the family planning options of some of our military service members, law enforcement officers, firefighters, and teachers.

Quoting MyGirlsAbbyLiz: Agree. If you can't independently support your kids you don't need more.





MyGirlsAbbyLiz
by on Jan. 4, 2013 at 8:48 PM

its not PA and doesnt apply

Quoting Anonymous:

I never saw it as PA, either, until I got it hammered into me here that it's a means tested poverty reduction program, and therefore it is technicaly PA.

Quoting MyGirlsAbbyLiz: i dont consider an earned income credit to be PA seeing as its part of a tax return. its not a long term form of support.
Quoting Anonymous: So, if a serviceman files his taxes and gets all of his federal withholding returned as well as additional monies as part of the Earned Income Tax Credit, which is PA, other people are supporting his family, so he should not have more children?
Quoting MyGirlsAbbyLiz: I said if they can't independently support their kids. Being on PA is not supporting them yourself,other people are.
Quoting Anonymous: Preview of 2012 EITC Income Limits

$45,060 ($50,270 married filing jointly) with three or more qualifying children
$41,952 ($47,162 married filing jointly) with two qualifying children
$36,920 ($42,130 married filing jointly) with one qualifying child
$13,980 ($19,190 married filing jointly) with no qualifying children

You think people shouldn't expand their families unless they make more than this? That cuts out the family planning options of some of our military service members, law enforcement officers, firefighters, and teachers.

Quoting MyGirlsAbbyLiz: Agree. If you can't independently support your kids you don't need more.




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