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Anyone Heard Of The Mountain Meadows Massacre?

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This is an evil monstrosity that the LDS 'Church' did back in the mid-1800s.
I grew up LDS and never knew anything about this.
The Baker-Fancher immigrant train came to the Salt Lake Valley, planning to head west to California. The Mormons would not trade or do any business with the wagon train.
The Mormons told them that the northern passage was riddled with Natives who were angry at the white man and that the southern passage was safer and easier to travel.
This was a lie.
Also, word had been sent to the southern Mormons not to do business with the train, as well.
The morning of Monday September 7, 1857 was bright, warm.
A little boy had just sat down to eat his breakfast when he was shot and killed- the first victim.
Then followed the shooting of 10-15 more immigrants- 7 of whom died then, three of which died days later.
The train members made a circle of the wagons and dug a trench to protect themselves.
For days, there were shots fired.
Friday, Sept. 11, under the guise of surrender, a Mormon man walked into the immigrant encampment to convince the members that they should leave the area. He promised them their lives if they walked away from their weapons and belongings.
Women and men walked single file. Children and those men too injured, were pulled in a wagon- all led by Mormons.
After walking about a mile, the procession was halted.
A Mormon yelled t o his brethren "Do your duty!" and shots rang out.
Within a matter of minutes, 120+ men, women and CHILDREN were killed.
17 orphans were taken to a ranch a few miles away, to be adopted by Mormon families.

There was no reason for this massacre, other than blind devotion to a man who says he is of God.
How can this 'church' be good, when they have this history on their heads?

by on Feb. 19, 2013 at 1:11 AM
Replies (111-120):
Momniscient
by Ruby Member on Feb. 20, 2013 at 12:44 AM
1 mom liked this

bonita's reply.

Your OP seems to be pretty standard to what I know. I was a river guide in the Grand Canyon for years and years and we spoke quite a bit about John D Lee (Lee's Ferry is named for him and it is said he was sent there to hide out--it was our put in for river trips) and the MMM.

JD Lee was executed for the MMM... many think as a scapegoat.

Quoting Sandiekd21:

My original post, or bonita's reply?

Quoting Momniscient:

I am not Mormon nor am I an expert but I grew up in Utah and know that her post is full of misinformation and shit.

Quoting Sandiekd21:

I don't like the LDS religion, but this is false.
My aunt is a faithful member. Pays her tithes every month.
One month, things were tight. SHe had to choose between tithing and feeding her kids.
The bishop came to her house and asked what was going on.
She told him.
He told her to pay her tithe and let him worry about feeding her family.
Then proceeded to bring food to her house for my aunt, uncle and cousins.
They do take care of their own.

Quoting Bonita131:

How can this 'church' be good, when they have this history on their heads?

There never was a "church," Mormonism is a cult.  The word "church" is only there and used, so the Mormons can rip off the government and taxpayers by not having to pay any taxes on their land and investments.  Do some research, (the ex mormon website) they own shopping centers, resorts, you name it, with all of it tax free as they claim it is part of the "church".  They suck gullible members dry with tithes, making some of  them choose between eating or face the wrath of the "church" for not paying their "share". It wasn't that long ago black people were considered evil by mormons, they would never let a black person join the "church." The only reason that rule changed is because of public pressure. Its really quite disgusting.






morrigan914
by Platinum Member on Feb. 20, 2013 at 12:44 AM
I am not Mormon and have heard of it.
Anonymous
by Anonymous 19 on Feb. 20, 2013 at 12:47 AM

I have been married for 15 years and not once has any of my bishops asked me if we engage in oral sex. Why? Because it is not wrong. My daughter has never been asked if she masturbates. I drink coffee now. I cannot get my temple recommend renewed but I am not shunned lol. I love how when someone gets offended or pissed off, they spew hate and misinformation.

Quoting katarina666:

My family joined the Mormon church when I was 14.They do interviews for positions ,even minor ones in front of the Bishop.They ask you things like do you keep the word of wisdom,do you masturbate? One young boy was so upset and made to feel unworthy and going to hell because he masturbated that he KILLED himself.His parents sued the church and won.They even ask married couples if they engage in oral sex.They will withhold or take away your Temple recommend  ( Ticket for entrance) if you do.I;m glad I left the church when I was 30.I used to feel guilty for drinking a cup of coffee. I had a boyfriend who was kicked out of Brigham Young university for drinking coffee. This is a soul sucking tyrannical cult not a church!


Anonymous
by Anonymous 20 on Feb. 20, 2013 at 12:49 AM
1 mom liked this

 True, but could you imagine a world were people, who essentially can't think for themselves, believed in and did any horrible thing they wanted? Most religions, at least, preach peace, love, and try to make people behave. If people can't think, someone will always think for them.

Quoting Anonymous:

It's not a religion as much as a cult.  Like scientology. imo.

Most religions are an organized way of controlling a group of people.

 

Quoting Sandiekd21:

Yes, but the orders for the extermination came from the LEADERS OF THE CHURCH! You know, the infallible President of the Mormon church?

Quoting bcoll:

 I've always known about this, but I love history, especially this time period.

All I can say here is that lots of terrible things have been done in the name of God and under cover of religion. That still doesn't make the religion bad. It makes those PEOPLE bad.


 

 

 

Anonymous
by Anonymous 3 on Feb. 20, 2013 at 12:51 AM


Or without religion holding mankind back and mankind will be forced to think on it's own and flourish.

Quoting Anonymous:

 True, but could you imagine a world were people, who essentially can't think for themselves, believed in and did any horrible thing they wanted? Most religions, at least, preach peace, love, and try to make people behave. If people can't think, someone will always think for them.

Quoting Anonymous:

It's not a religion as much as a cult.  Like scientology. imo.

Most religions are an organized way of controlling a group of people.


Quoting Sandiekd21:

Yes, but the orders for the extermination came from the LEADERS OF THE CHURCH! You know, the infallible President of the Mormon church?

Quoting bcoll:

 I've always known about this, but I love history, especially this time period.

All I can say here is that lots of terrible things have been done in the name of God and under cover of religion. That still doesn't make the religion bad. It makes those PEOPLE bad.




 



morrigan914
by Platinum Member on Feb. 20, 2013 at 12:53 AM
I don't particularly like the LDS church and it has always struck me as cultish, but there is so much misinformation in this post. The church will bend over backwards to help anyone who needs help, church member or not and ask nothing in return.
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heresjohnny
by Emerald Member on Feb. 20, 2013 at 12:54 AM

Actually, yes I can. I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness (another hated Christian sect). I'm an atheist and don't believe a word of any of it, but I'll NEVER bash it just to bash it. Look at any JW post in this group since my join date, and you'll probably see me correcting misinformation. But at the same time, you won't find a single thread or post created by me pointing out their faults. I'll acknowledge faults when brought up, but that's not the same as creating a thread to paint a target on their backs. Historical fact or not, I think it's disrespectful. I may not agree with their beliefs, but they've given me no reason to fuel the flames that everyone loves to fan. Your bitterness for the Mormon church would be better suited for the ex-Mormon forums. At least there you'll be in a group with other like-minded people. This isn't an appropriate place for religion bashing.


Quoting Sandiekd21:

If I was so against the LDS hurch, then why would I have corrected TWO posters who have posted in here about false stuff within it?
The first one I corrected was saying falacies about baptism for the dead. I let her know that it was not forced upon the deceased, that they get to choose whether or not to accept it.
The second was was regarding tithing and if you don't tuthe, you face the wrath of the church. I told that poster that she was wrong, too.
I will defend the church when a total lie is stated.
But, I will admit it's faults, too.
Can you say that?

Quoting heresjohnny:

History isn't disgusting. What's disgusting is the intent of this post. You are an ex-Mormon, you hate the religion, and now you're trying to spread the Mormon hate. This wasn't a friendly history lesson, but you already know that.


Quoting Sandiekd21:

So, knowledge is disgusting?
That's the point of this post. To educate people of a dark thing in American history. Yes, it has to do with the Mormons. So what?

Quoting heresjohnny:

I don't see the point of posting this, other than to show everyone how horrible the LDS church is =/ Since the beginning of time, there's been a wake of death and destruction in the name of God. The Bible itself tells stories of women and children being massacred for having the "wrong" beliefs. There's nothing wrong with knowing your history, but the intent of this post is disgusting.







Anonymous
by Anonymous 20 on Feb. 20, 2013 at 1:04 AM
1 mom liked this

 Or kill each other off, because the naturally bad believe they can kill and harm others and have no sense of human responsibility. It may be surprising to know that the kind of people who are sold on their religion often have only their religion's teachings as a reason for not doing bad things. And, seriously, are some of these people truly capable of thinking for themselves? I'm perfectly happy to have the intellectually challenged corralled by a peaceful religion.

 

Quoting Anonymous:

 

Or without religion holding mankind back and mankind will be forced to think on it's own and flourish.

Quoting Anonymous:

 True, but could you imagine a world were people, who essentially can't think for themselves, believed in and did any horrible thing they wanted? Most religions, at least, preach peace, love, and try to make people behave. If people can't think, someone will always think for them.

Quoting Anonymous:

It's not a religion as much as a cult.  Like scientology. imo.

Most religions are an organized way of controlling a group of people.

 

Quoting Sandiekd21:

Yes, but the orders for the extermination came from the LEADERS OF THE CHURCH! You know, the infallible President of the Mormon church?

Quoting bcoll:

 I've always known about this, but I love history, especially this time period.

All I can say here is that lots of terrible things have been done in the name of God and under cover of religion. That still doesn't make the religion bad. It makes those PEOPLE bad.


 

 

 

 

 

 

Bonita131
by Platinum Member on Feb. 20, 2013 at 1:05 AM

 


Quoting Sandiekd21:

I don't like the LDS religion, but this is false.
My aunt is a faithful member. Pays her tithes every month.
One month, things were tight. SHe had to choose between tithing and feeding her kids.
The bishop came to her house and asked what was going on.
She told him.
He told her to pay her tithe and let him worry about feeding her family.
Then proceeded to bring food to her house for my aunt, uncle and cousins.
They do take care of their own.

Quoting Bonita131:

How can this 'church' be good, when they have this history on their heads?

There never was a "church," Mormonism is a cult.  The word "church" is only there and used, so the Mormons can rip off the government and taxpayers by not having to pay any taxes on their land and investments.  Do some research, (the ex mormon website) they own shopping centers, resorts, you name it, with all of it tax free as they claim it is part of the "church".  They suck gullible members dry with tithes, making some of  them choose between eating or face the wrath of the "church" for not paying their "share". It wasn't that long ago black people were considered evil by mormons, they would never let a black person join the "church." The only reason that rule changed is because of public pressure. Its really quite disgusting.


"He told her to pay her tithe"

That statement alone is the telling point. Your aunt may have received a token food basket but she was also told to pay her tithe. Your aunt knows and fears thanks to mormon brainwashing, that if she does not pay her tithes, she cannot get a recommend. If she cannot get a recommend, she cannot go to the temple. If she cannot go to the temple, she cannot go to the celestial kingdom, which will leave her to receive damnation in the next life.

Of course they take care of their own with food donations and whatever else token goodie of the week they might have to hand out, its the tithes of their own thats of the utmost importance.

 

 

Anonymous
by Anonymous 3 on Feb. 20, 2013 at 1:07 AM

I dont believe the majoraty of people are naturally bad.  And I have a little more faith in human kid than you do.  

I think as rational adults we don't need stories and fairy tales to force us to behave.

what a silly argument you make.  I can't even be bothered to properly rebut it.


Quoting Anonymous:

 Or kill each other off, because the naturally bad believe they can kill and harm others and have no sense of human responsibility. It may be surprising to know that the kind of people who are sold on their religion often have only their religion's teachings as a reason for not doing bad things. And, seriously, are some of these people truly capable of thinking for themselves? I'm perfectly happy to have the intellectually challenged corralled by a peaceful religion.

 

Quoting Anonymous:


Or without religion holding mankind back and mankind will be forced to think on it's own and flourish.

Quoting Anonymous:

 True, but could you imagine a world were people, who essentially can't think for themselves, believed in and did any horrible thing they wanted? Most religions, at least, preach peace, love, and try to make people behave. If people can't think, someone will always think for them.

Quoting Anonymous:

It's not a religion as much as a cult.  Like scientology. imo.

Most religions are an organized way of controlling a group of people.


Quoting Sandiekd21:

Yes, but the orders for the extermination came from the LEADERS OF THE CHURCH! You know, the infallible President of the Mormon church?

Quoting bcoll:

 I've always known about this, but I love history, especially this time period.

All I can say here is that lots of terrible things have been done in the name of God and under cover of religion. That still doesn't make the religion bad. It makes those PEOPLE bad.




 



 



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