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Anyone Heard Of The Mountain Meadows Massacre?

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This is an evil monstrosity that the LDS 'Church' did back in the mid-1800s.
I grew up LDS and never knew anything about this.
The Baker-Fancher immigrant train came to the Salt Lake Valley, planning to head west to California. The Mormons would not trade or do any business with the wagon train.
The Mormons told them that the northern passage was riddled with Natives who were angry at the white man and that the southern passage was safer and easier to travel.
This was a lie.
Also, word had been sent to the southern Mormons not to do business with the train, as well.
The morning of Monday September 7, 1857 was bright, warm.
A little boy had just sat down to eat his breakfast when he was shot and killed- the first victim.
Then followed the shooting of 10-15 more immigrants- 7 of whom died then, three of which died days later.
The train members made a circle of the wagons and dug a trench to protect themselves.
For days, there were shots fired.
Friday, Sept. 11, under the guise of surrender, a Mormon man walked into the immigrant encampment to convince the members that they should leave the area. He promised them their lives if they walked away from their weapons and belongings.
Women and men walked single file. Children and those men too injured, were pulled in a wagon- all led by Mormons.
After walking about a mile, the procession was halted.
A Mormon yelled t o his brethren "Do your duty!" and shots rang out.
Within a matter of minutes, 120+ men, women and CHILDREN were killed.
17 orphans were taken to a ranch a few miles away, to be adopted by Mormon families.

There was no reason for this massacre, other than blind devotion to a man who says he is of God.
How can this 'church' be good, when they have this history on their heads?

by on Feb. 19, 2013 at 1:11 AM
Replies (131-140):
Cutenessmom
by Gold Member on Feb. 20, 2013 at 8:14 AM

Is'nt blind faith a  "wonderful thing"  (sarcasm)  We our human and we can assholes!  I heard about this ad I am not a Mormon!  Very atrocious things have , done  in the name of religion.

demonica29
by Gold Member on Feb. 20, 2013 at 9:10 AM


To everyone saying all religions have blood on their hands, I posted this on page 8 but it seems to bear repeating here. 

On the same page, next post I suggested that by not admitting to the stain on their history, current Mormons were perpetuating the wrong to this very day. 


Quoting demonica29:


I don't think anyone thinks this is worse than or the first of or the last of all the times people have been killed in the name of religion. What is creepy about this instance (and I think I speak for some of the posters here) is that one can grow up in the Mormon church and never hear a word about it. As an adult, I was a few weeks away from being baptized into the church, and if a (non-Mormon) friend had not given me the book, I would have been blissfully baptized never knowing any better. Was the book the whole reason I chose not to join the church?  Hell no, but the book sparked my interest to look deeper into the factual history of the church rather than the revisionist history preached by church members.


Its like someone growing up Catholic and never hearing of the Inquisitions. Or growing up American and never hearing of slavery.  Or a German who never heard of the horrors of WWII.  Those groups have at least accepted their ugly part in history and said mea culpa, the Mormons will argue that their ugliness never happened. 





Quoting Anonymous:

You act like this is the first (or last) case of religious orders killing people im cold-blood. because apperently its ok to God to kill people that you think doesnt follow him like they should or do as you think they should.





Sandiekd21
by Platinum Member on Feb. 20, 2013 at 9:43 AM

I did not bash the religion. I stated fact.
And even if I did, this is the perfect group for it! It's MC. Bashing is done when a woman comes in here and announces her baby has been born!

Quoting heresjohnny:

Actually, yes I can. I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness (another hated Christian sect). I'm an atheist and don't believe a word of any of it, but I'll NEVER bash it just to bash it. Look at any JW post in this group since my join date, and you'll probably see me correcting misinformation. But at the same time, you won't find a single thread or post created by me pointing out their faults. I'll acknowledge faults when brought up, but that's not the same as creating a thread to paint a target on their backs. Historical fact or not, I think it's disrespectful. I may not agree with their beliefs, but they've given me no reason to fuel the flames that everyone loves to fan. Your bitterness for the Mormon church would be better suited for the ex-Mormon forums. At least there you'll be in a group with other like-minded people. This isn't an appropriate place for religion bashing.


Quoting Sandiekd21:

If I was so against the LDS hurch, then why would I have corrected TWO posters who have posted in here about false stuff within it?
The first one I corrected was saying falacies about baptism for the dead. I let her know that it was not forced upon the deceased, that they get to choose whether or not to accept it.
The second was was regarding tithing and if you don't tuthe, you face the wrath of the church. I told that poster that she was wrong, too.
I will defend the church when a total lie is stated.
But, I will admit it's faults, too.
Can you say that?

Quoting heresjohnny:

History isn't disgusting. What's disgusting is the intent of this post. You are an ex-Mormon, you hate the religion, and now you're trying to spread the Mormon hate. This wasn't a friendly history lesson, but you already know that.


Quoting Sandiekd21:

So, knowledge is disgusting?
That's the point of this post. To educate people of a dark thing in American history. Yes, it has to do with the Mormons. So what?

Quoting heresjohnny:

I don't see the point of posting this, other than to show everyone how horrible the LDS church is =/ Since the beginning of time, there's been a wake of death and destruction in the name of God. The Bible itself tells stories of women and children being massacred for having the "wrong" beliefs. There's nothing wrong with knowing your history, but the intent of this post is disgusting.








Sandiekd21
by Platinum Member on Feb. 20, 2013 at 9:49 AM

You're twisting my words. It was still her choice on whether or not to tithe.
There are 3 levels of Heaven in the Mormon church. The celestial kingdom is the highest, yes.
I don't know that you have to go to the temple to get into it, I'd alsways heard that you have to get married and have a happy, strong marriage, have babies, keep the Word of Wisdom and follow the Book of Mormon to get into it.
Not go to the temple.

Quoting Bonita131:



Quoting Sandiekd21:

I don't like the LDS religion, but this is false.
My aunt is a faithful member. Pays her tithes every month.
One month, things were tight. SHe had to choose between tithing and feeding her kids.
The bishop came to her house and asked what was going on.
She told him.
He told her to pay her tithe and let him worry about feeding her family.
Then proceeded to bring food to her house for my aunt, uncle and cousins.
They do take care of their own.

Quoting Bonita131:

How can this 'church' be good, when they have this history on their heads?

There never was a "church," Mormonism is a cult.  The word "church" is only there and used, so the Mormons can rip off the government and taxpayers by not having to pay any taxes on their land and investments.  Do some research, (the ex mormon website) they own shopping centers, resorts, you name it, with all of it tax free as they claim it is part of the "church".  They suck gullible members dry with tithes, making some of  them choose between eating or face the wrath of the "church" for not paying their "share". It wasn't that long ago black people were considered evil by mormons, they would never let a black person join the "church." The only reason that rule changed is because of public pressure. Its really quite disgusting.


"He told her to pay her tithe"

That statement alone is the telling point. Your aunt may have received a token food basket but she was also told to pay her tithe. Your aunt knows and fears thanks to mormon brainwashing, that if she does not pay her tithes, she cannot get a recommend. If she cannot get a recommend, she cannot go to the temple. If she cannot go to the temple, she cannot go to the celestial kingdom, which will leave her to receive damnation in the next life.

Of course they take care of their own with food donations and whatever else token goodie of the week they might have to hand out, its the tithes of their own thats of the utmost importance.

 

 


spooky415
by Ruby Member on Feb. 20, 2013 at 9:51 AM
Give me a religion and I will tell you of a time when its people behaved badly and their leaders did something corrupt.

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spooky415
by Ruby Member on Feb. 20, 2013 at 9:53 AM
i've always heard that in order to get into the highest kingdom you have to be able to go to temple. that doesn't mean you have to actually ATTEND but you need to be in whatever standing the church dictates is allowed in there.


Quoting Sandiekd21:

You're twisting my words. It was still her choice on whether or not to tithe.
There are 3 levels of Heaven in the Mormon church. The celestial kingdom is the highest, yes.
I don't know that you have to go to the temple to get into it, I'd alsways heard that you have to get married and have a happy, strong marriage, have babies, keep the Word of Wisdom and follow the Book of Mormon to get into it.
Not go to the temple.

Quoting Bonita131:





Quoting Sandiekd21:


I don't like the LDS religion, but this is false.
My aunt is a faithful member. Pays her tithes every month.
One month, things were tight. SHe had to choose between tithing and feeding her kids.
The bishop came to her house and asked what was going on.
She told him.
He told her to pay her tithe and let him worry about feeding her family.
Then proceeded to bring food to her house for my aunt, uncle and cousins.
They do take care of their own.


Quoting Bonita131:


How can this 'church' be good, when they have this history on their heads?


There never was a "church," Mormonism is a cult.  The word "church" is only there and used, so the Mormons can rip off the government and taxpayers by not having to pay any taxes on their land and investments.  Do some research, (the ex mormon website) they own shopping centers, resorts, you name it, with all of it tax free as they claim it is part of the "church".  They suck gullible members dry with tithes, making some of  them choose between eating or face the wrath of the "church" for not paying their "share". It wasn't that long ago black people were considered evil by mormons, they would never let a black person join the "church." The only reason that rule changed is because of public pressure. Its really quite disgusting.




"He told her to pay her tithe"


That statement alone is the telling point. Your aunt may have received a token food basket but she was also told to pay her tithe. Your aunt knows and fears thanks to mormon brainwashing, that if she does not pay her tithes, she cannot get a recommend. If she cannot get a recommend, she cannot go to the temple. If she cannot go to the temple, she cannot go to the celestial kingdom, which will leave her to receive damnation in the next life.


Of course they take care of their own with food donations and whatever else token goodie of the week they might have to hand out, its the tithes of their own thats of the utmost importance.


 


 



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spooky415
by Ruby Member on Feb. 20, 2013 at 9:54 AM
ehhhhh the catholics don't really go around teaching about the inquisition in CCD...


Quoting demonica29:


To everyone saying all religions have blood on their hands, I posted this on page 8 but it seems to bear repeating here. 

On the same page, next post I suggested that by not admitting to the stain on their history, current Mormons were perpetuating the wrong to this very day. 



Quoting demonica29:


I don't think anyone thinks this is worse than or the first of or the last of all the times people have been killed in the name of religion. What is creepy about this instance (and I think I speak for some of the posters here) is that one can grow up in the Mormon church and never hear a word about it. As an adult, I was a few weeks away from being baptized into the church, and if a (non-Mormon) friend had not given me the book, I would have been blissfully baptized never knowing any better. Was the book the whole reason I chose not to join the church?  Hell no, but the book sparked my interest to look deeper into the factual history of the church rather than the revisionist history preached by church members.


Its like someone growing up Catholic and never hearing of the Inquisitions. Or growing up American and never hearing of slavery.  Or a German who never heard of the horrors of WWII.  Those groups have at least accepted their ugly part in history and said mea culpa, the Mormons will argue that their ugliness never happened. 






Quoting Anonymous:

You act like this is the first (or last) case of religious orders killing people im cold-blood. because apperently its ok to God to kill people that you think doesnt follow him like they should or do as you think they should.








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Bonita131
by Platinum Member on Feb. 20, 2013 at 4:14 PM

 


Quoting miss_lisa:


Quoting Bonita131:

 

 

Quoting miss_lisa:

The ex Mormon website is one of the most hateful and vile sites I've ever visited and I'm ex-Mormon. They're so hateful and spiteful it's embarrassing. They are NOT a good source for information.



I left the LDS religion with zero issues. They've never harassed me. For a cult they do a real shitty job on making sure I don't expose them. Maybe there's a Mormon ninja outside my window waiting to strike after I post this.

Oh an they are extremely charitable with members and non-members alike. They ask that you tithe 10% of your income but if you are in dire need of help they understand. I have family members who had their bills paid, medications paid, and received free food from the LDS church. Google bishops storehouse. They'd never allow anyone to starve if they can help. That's just bullshit.



Quoting Bonita131:

How can this 'church' be good, when they have this history on their heads?



There never was a "church," Mormonism is a cult.  The word "church" is only there and used, so the Mormons can rip off the government and taxpayers by not having to pay any taxes on their land and investments.  Do some research, (the ex mormon website) they own shopping centers, resorts, you name it, with all of it tax free as they claim it is part of the "church".  They suck gullible members dry with tithes, making some of  them choose between eating or face the wrath of the "church" for not paying their "share". It wasn't that long ago black people were considered evil by mormons, they would never let a black person join the "church." The only reason that rule changed is because of public pressure. Its really quite disgusting.

Oh please, if you really think I'd take what you say as the truth over thousands of ex mormons, you're living in a dream world. The ex mormon website is great source of information, they tell it as it really is, they do not make excuses for what is nothing more than a cult, like you are doing.

Mormon church earns $7 billion a year from tithing, analysis indicates

SAN FRANCISCO -- If the Mormon church were a business, wealthy adherents like Mitt Romney would count as its dominant revenue stream.

Its investment strategy would be viewed as risk-averse.

It would also likely attract corporate gadflies protesting a lack of transparency. They would call for less spending on real estate and more on charitable causes to improve membership growth -- the Mormons' return on investment.

Those are a few of the conclusions that can be drawn from an analysis of the church's finances by Reuters and University of Tampa sociologist Ryan Cragun.


 

Relying heavily on church records in countries that require far more disclosure than the United States, Cragun and Reuters estimate that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints brings in some $7 billion annually in tithes and other donations.

It owns about $35 billion worth of temples and meeting houses around the world, and controls farms, ranches, shopping malls and other commercial ventures worth many billions more.

The church claims 14 million members around the world, more than half outside the United States. All are supposed to tithe, or give 10 percent, of their income, which Mormons frequently interpret as pre-tax earnings. But only about 40 percent of Mormons counted by the church actually attend weekly services in the United States and Canada, and in many countries, including Mexico and Brazil, only a quarter of nominal members are active, according to Cumorah, an independent research group headed by a devoted, active Mormon.

These active members are most likely to tithe, and the result is that from a financial standpoint at least, the church remains largely a venture of active American members, said Cragun, who adds that U.S. Mormon men tend to be wealthier than the average U.S. male.

"Most of the revenue of the religion is from the U.S., and a large percentage comes from an elite cadre of wealthy donors, like Mitt Romney," said Cragun. "(It) is a religion that appeals to economically successful men by rewarding their financial acuity with respect and positions of prestige within the religion."

The church is full of successful businessmen, including chemical billionaire Jon Huntsman Sr., the father of the former presidential candidate, J.W. "Bill" Marriott Jr. and his hotel-owning family, and even entertainer Donny Osmond.

Romney, the Republican presidential candidate, gave $4.1 million to the church over the past two years (amounting to 9.7 percent of his gross adjusted income, according to the two years' worth of tax returns he has released). He would tithe on his IRA, valued at as much as $102 million, only when he withdraws from it and pays taxes.

Crunching the numbers
Several countries around the world require religious groups and charities to file financial reports, including Canada. The country has only 185,000 Mormon members but a wealth of statistics on them. Taking total reported Canadian donations and dividing by the estimated number of active Mormons and family financial data from the World Bank indicates that active Canadian Mormons give slightly less than 8 percent of their income to the church.

Assuming that active U.S. Mormons give at a similar rate and adjusting for higher U.S. income, total U.S. tithing would amount to more than $6 billion, or about $6.5 billion annually between the United States and Canada.

Australia, Hong Kong, New Zealand and the United Kingdom, which also require financial disclosures, all have sharply lower donation rates than Canada. Based on data from those countries, tithing outside the United States and Canada totals several hundred million dollars, taking global total donations to about $7 billion.

Canada also requires the church to disclose the value of its assets and spending. Using those figures as a basis suggests the total value of church buildings, including temples and meeting houses, would be about $35 billion globally.

Church spokesman Michael Purdy declined to comment specifically on the estimates but said that the church was different from a corporation.

"Other projections are speculative and do not reflect an understanding of how the church uses its income to bless the lives of people," he added, saying the church was financed primarily from member tithing and offerings.

Focus on business and buildings
Concerned or disgruntled current and former Mormons complain that the church spends too much on real estate and for-profit ventures, neglecting charity work.

The Mormon church has no hospitals and only a handful of primary schools. Its university system is limited to widely respected Brigham Young, which has campuses in Utah, Idaho and Hawaii, and LDS Business College. Seminaries and institutes for high school students and single adults offer religious studies for hundreds of thousands.

It counts more than 55,000 in its missionary forces, primarily youths focused on converting new members but also seniors who volunteer for its nonprofits, such as the Polynesian Cultural Center, which bills itself as Hawaii's No. 1 tourist attraction, and for-profit businesses owned by the church.

The church has plowed resources into a multi-billion-dollar global network of for-profit enterprises: it is the largest rancher in the United States, a church official told Nebraska's Lincoln Journal Star in 2004, with other ranches and farms in Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Australia and Great Britain, according to financial documents reviewed by Reuters.

Ranching and farm industry sources say they are well-run operations.

It also has a small media empire, an investment fund, and is developing a mall across from its Salt Lake City headquarters, which it calls an attempt to help revitalize the city rather than to make money. These enterprises are also part of a vast nest egg for tough times. The church expects wars and natural disasters before Christ returns to Earth in the Second Coming, and members are encouraged to prepare by laying in stores of food. Farms and ranches are part of the church's own preparation.

"The church teaches its members to live within their means and put a little money aside for life's unexpected events. As a church, we live by the same principle," Purdy said. The rainy-day fund and operating budget rarely mix, officials say.

Cost-cutting is a top priority, church documents show. It has even laid off janitors and called on members to clean temples and meeting houses, but the buildout of temples continues, including one under construction in Rome.

Those temples take a lot of money to operate, Purdy points out, and many of the grand church buildings are short on congregants, says David Stewart, a physician who leads the research group Cumorah.

"I have been to beautiful church buildings in Hungary and Ukraine, and Latvia and other places, and there are these huge buildings and 35 people there, and you say, how can this work financially? The math - it just doesn't work."

In contrast, the Seventh-day Adventist Church, which had about 17 million members a year ago, appears to be getting a better return on investment: It builds smaller meeting houses and lots of schools and hospitals, and its numbers are swelling faster than the Mormons', said Stewart. The Adventists claim a million new members join annually, compared with every three years or so for the Mormons.

"The Seventh-day Adventists clearly have a much more expansive humanitarian project in terms of building hospitals and medical schools and schools and universities and long-term developmental infrastructure around the world," said Stewart. "It's paid off for them."

The Mormon church, meanwhile, appears to be decreasing transparency and member control of donations. New tithing slips give fewer donation options and come with an expanded disclaimer saying the church has sole discretion over spending, even though it will make "reasonable efforts" to follow donors' wishes.

"Hey, where's the slot of 'shopping malls'?" a poster said of the new slips on exmormonforums.com, one of several dissident sites.

 

 

 

So it appears you don't understand bias. The ex-Mormon site is full of people who are extremely spiteful over their experiences therefore their opinions and views will be biased. Hence, it's not a reliable source of information. The fact that you think it is means that you don't understand the concept of bias.

I never said they weren't wealthy, as a religion they are incredibly wealthy. I disagreed with your statements that it's a cult. Per your article, that's correct. With only a 40% active rate this means that the majority of members are NOT active. If they were a cult like you claim they are they would certainly have a much higher active rate than 40%.

I did state that the LDS church does a LOT of charitable work. Your article even addresses the idea of food storage which is a huge part of the LDS religion. They encourage their members to be prepared. They give out a lot of food, have helped with numerous major world disasters, give people money to help them out (even non-members), and more. Charity and service work are a HUGE part of the LDS culture. 

I'm not sure why you posted that article. It didn't even refute anything I posted and actually supported a couple of my points. So thanks I guess.

Oh please, do some research on how much the LDS gives to charity/world disasters compared to any other churches. The amount they actually part with is disgraceful. As for the storage of food, it has nothing to do with being prepared on earth, the food is for the so called celestial kingdom, which any sane person would know is a complete myth. As stated previously, thousands of ex mormons do not lie, you on the other hand, well that's another story isn't it.

Bonita131
by Platinum Member on Feb. 20, 2013 at 5:11 PM

 


Quoting Sandiekd21:

You're twisting my words. It was still her choice on whether or not to tithe.
There are 3 levels of Heaven in the Mormon church. The celestial kingdom is the highest, yes.
I don't know that you have to go to the temple to get into it, I'd alsways heard that you have to get married and have a happy, strong marriage, have babies, keep the Word of Wisdom and follow the Book of Mormon to get into it.
Not go to the temple.

Quoting Bonita131:

 

 

Quoting Sandiekd21:

I don't like the LDS religion, but this is false.
My aunt is a faithful member. Pays her tithes every month.
One month, things were tight. SHe had to choose between tithing and feeding her kids.
The bishop came to her house and asked what was going on.
She told him.
He told her to pay her tithe and let him worry about feeding her family.
Then proceeded to bring food to her house for my aunt, uncle and cousins.
They do take care of their own.

Quoting Bonita131:

How can this 'church' be good, when they have this history on their heads?

There never was a "church," Mormonism is a cult.  The word "church" is only there and used, so the Mormons can rip off the government and taxpayers by not having to pay any taxes on their land and investments.  Do some research, (the ex mormon website) they own shopping centers, resorts, you name it, with all of it tax free as they claim it is part of the "church".  They suck gullible members dry with tithes, making some of  them choose between eating or face the wrath of the "church" for not paying their "share". It wasn't that long ago black people were considered evil by mormons, they would never let a black person join the "church." The only reason that rule changed is because of public pressure. Its really quite disgusting.


"He told her to pay her tithe"

That statement alone is the telling point. Your aunt may have received a token food basket but she was also told to pay her tithe. Your aunt knows and fears thanks to mormon brainwashing, that if she does not pay her tithes, she cannot get a recommend. If she cannot get a recommend, she cannot go to the temple. If she cannot go to the temple, she cannot go to the celestial kingdom, which will leave her to receive damnation in the next life.

Of course they take care of their own with food donations and whatever else token goodie of the week they might have to hand out, its the tithes of their own thats of the utmost importance.

 

 


If you don't go to the temple and all the steps thereafter,  you will live in damnation in the after life according to the mormon church.  Of course your aunt did not have to pay her tithe, she does have that option but she would then be going against the "church rules" of tithe being maditory if you hope to go to the celestial kingdom one day. If your aunt is a devote mormon, she'd most likly be freaked out if she was unable to pay her tithe. Yes there are levels in the celestial kingdom but if you are not in the highest level, you are as has already been said, destined to live in damanation.

Seriously..The mormons know a good thing when they see it. Simply brainwash the most gullible members into believing they'll live a life of damnation if they don't pay their tithe, and they'll be able to fill their deceiful pockets to the brim, and more . 

Educate yourself..

Tithing by Coercion

By Bill McKeever

Most people would be offended at any organization which teaches that in order to escape damnation, giving of your financial means is mandatory. Yet, this is exactly what Mormonism teaches.

Mormonism teaches that there are three degrees of glory reserved for those who have passed on from mortality. These are called the celestial, terrestrial, and telestial kingdoms. Within the celestial there are three more levels. LDS leaders have proclaimed that what a person believes and does in this life will be tantamount as to which kingdom that person will abide in the next life. Interestingly enough, any level lower than the top level within the celestial kingdom has been described as damnation.

To clarify this we quote LDS Apostle Bruce McConkie. McConkie stated that salvation has varying degrees just as damnation has varying degrees. According to page 177 of his book "Mormon Doctrine," he states that those who are damned are, "Those who fail to gain exaltation in the highest heaven in the celestial world, even though they do gain a celestial mansion in one of the lower heavens of that world." He goes on to say, "The rejection of any covenant, the gospel, celestial marriage, or any other, assures the rebellious person of damnation."

If one hopes to obtain the celestial kingdom in the next life, he must practice what is known as "celestial law." In the words of third LDS President John Taylor, "We are told that if we cannot abide the law of the celestial kingdom we cannot inherit a celestial glory" (Journal of Discourses, Vol.26, p.133).

Brigham Young, Mormonism's second president, stated that if a person hopes to obtain the celestial kingdom,

"it requires a strict obedience to every point of law and doctrine and to every ordinance which the Lord reveals: in short, it requires a strict observance of every requirement of Heaven, to fully prepare a people for the possession and enjoyment of the celestial kingdom" (Journal of Discourses, Vol.10, p.286).

Having said all this, it should be noted that paying a full tithe is a requirement under celestial law. Said Mormon Apostle James E. Talmage,

"It is important to know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has observed this requirement from the early days of its history--not because it was operative in ancient Israel, nor because it was law and custom among the Jews in the days of Christ, but because it has been authoritatively established through modern revelation in the Church."

Talmage then quoted Doctrine and Covenants 119: 3-4, which reads,

"And this shall be the beginning of the tithing of my People. And after that, those who have thus been tithed, shall pay one tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them for ever, for my Holy Priesthood, saith the Lord." (The Vitality of Mormonism, p.207 - p.208).

Our argument is not against tithing per se, all of us at MRM freely give to the churches we attend. We do so, not as a means to escape "damnation," but rather as a means of furthering the ministry of the church. Giving to our individual churches enables it to spread the Christian message whether it is at home or abroad. The Mormon may argue that he freely gives of his tithes to his church and that he does not feel he is being coerced into doing so. This may be true; however, it is the letter of Mormon law wherein the coercion lies, not an individual's feelings about the law.

Another important aspect of celestial law is participation in the temple endowment ceremony. But herein lies the catch. In order to enter an LDS temple, it is necessary to obtain a temple recommend. A recommend is granted only when the Mormon has been found faithful in numerous categories, including tithe-paying. If a Mormon does not pay his tithes, he cannot get a recommend. If he cannot get a recommend, he cannot go to the temple. If he cannot go to the temple, he cannot go to the celestial kingdom; hence he receives damnation in the next life. Consequently, if the Mormon wants to escape damnation, he is compelled to pay up, whether he likes it or not. This is tithing by coercion, not the biblical method prescribed in the Bible.

http://www.mrm.org/tithing

 

klbetts
by on Feb. 20, 2013 at 7:06 PM
The age of 8 is the age of accountability. By that age children should know right from wrong. The LDS church is not the only Christian church to baptize at that age. It makes more sense than baptizing a baby. I'm guessing from your anger twords the church that some event led you to hate the church in general and not focus on the sins of the person or people responsible. I too was that way until I found it within myself to realize that members of the church are human and not infallible. Yes I had several events that caused me to distance myself from the church as well. I understand that but what I don't understand is the pure hatred that you seem to have. Agency is is yours to do what you want. Please do not choose to dwell on the negatives. I believe I read in a pp that you are Wiccan. Doesn't that religion teach you to focus on the positive because the negative will come back on you tenfold? Just a thought.


Quoting Sandiekd21:

Of course the Inquisition is important. It was a terrible time in history where a lot of people died for their beliefs.
BUT- at least (for the most part) the people who died were dying for their God.
Not true with MMM.
I do have strong feelings about the LDS church. I was raised Mormon and baptised at eight, where they 'washed away my sins' and promised myself to Jesus.
At eight, you know nothing of life or religion. How can you make such a HUGE choice saying that you are going to follow and believe this your whole life?
Plus, what sins has and wight year old child commited? Seriously?

Quoting klbetts:

I guess the Inquisition means nothing to you? Or do you just feel the need to find all of the negative things you can about the LDS church and post them here? It's obvious that you have strong feelings about the church.



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