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Should problem students be automatically disenroled at the age of 16?

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Last night my entire family and I went out to dinner for FIL's BD. My SIL told us one of the topics her Current Issues and Events class. This dinner topic was a topic stemmed from something that had happened to her earlier in school Friday ( group of disruptive students caused her to miss 5 questions on her Astronomy quiz). Her teacher ask them if they thought students who are habitual failers simply because they don't care to try and/or troublemakers should be disenroled at 16. She said her class was split on the issue.

Some felt it was unfair to the students who would be disenroled and prey on the poor, which are usually the problem students. They also felt it would set them up for poverty because they would not be able to find work w/out a diploma. While others felt the rights of students who are not problems and/or don't try trump the rights of those students who are and the money "wasted" (65 hundred a school year) on them could go to new books and things that would help the behaved students and go towards programs geared students who are struggling. They also felt it was unfair to those students who are distracted by the toublemakers. You can obviously tell where my SIL fell on the issue lol

I think we all understand hat the problem is heavily caused by admins who often to not back up teachers, but is some this also caused by the students? What should we do with them? Should they be disenroled if they have proven disciplinary problems and/or are students who can not succeed due to their own lack of care? What should we do with them after they are taken out?

 

 

*If you read my post and there are mistakes in my spelling or grammar please note that I never learned either in school and I am currently learning them now. If you see a mistake POLITELY point it out and I'll be more than happy to correct my mistake. Here's a fun little siggy for your enjoyment. *

by on Mar. 10, 2013 at 12:36 PM
Replies (21-30):
audreesmama
by on Mar. 10, 2013 at 12:54 PM
You can't join the military, get married, buy a car, get a full time job at 16, and those are adult decisions.

Like I said--alternative education centers. These children are our future.


Quoting quickbooksworm:

Of course they can make those decisions. At 16 you can be legally emancipated. In most states you do not have to have your parents to drop out. Schools either need to do something with the problem students one way or the other because it is stealing the education of the good students.




Quoting audreesmama:

At 16, you can't make most decisions for yourself because you are not 'adult' enough to do so. Why should a child be in charge if his or her own education at. 16?






Quoting quickbooksworm:

At 16-17, yes, kick them out. Its not fair to take instruction time away from students who care and want to be there. At 16, you either believe or not that education is important.



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cbell918
by on Mar. 10, 2013 at 12:55 PM
This is a tough one... but honestly I think if they knew they could get disenroled, students would probably take education more seriously... I can't remember how many times I had teachers just stop teaching because of the misbehavior of others. It really isn't fair to those that actually WANT to learn. Its more discouraging than anything.

But then on the other side of things (as a previous poster said) how do we decide who has to go? How do we know that they don't want to learn or if they are dealing with more stressful issues at home? What if all those problem students need is a little one on one time? Then morally, how do you just turn your back on a possibly troubled student?
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countrymum0710
by on Mar. 10, 2013 at 12:55 PM
The Schools need to find a way yo fund a separate class. They have alternative classes that work well for people who are struggling to keep up. Why not another class for those students.
At times the trouble makers are a prime example of their parents. If the parents don't care why should they? Bring the curriculum down a level so its keeping them motivated and engaged. I had a teacher who never did text book teaching. He was awesome. We were always engaged in some type of activity and we were still able to get the information we needed. We learned a lot by hands on and having fun. The school board was not very fond of his teaching style but when the numbers came back from testing. All of his classes always had the highest grades. Even the kids who struggled or who were " trouble makers". I miss that class even today.

Those are the types of thing we need to do. Not give up on them. Obviously someone already has. They have no self esteem. If they can't believe they can do it they won't even try.
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ButterMeUp
by Butters on Mar. 10, 2013 at 12:58 PM
Think beyond your son for a second. Is it fair to the rest of his class to have him disrupt them just so he can barely slide by? Do you think he would be better suited at a school ment to handle his needs?

Quoting lazycervix:

My son is 13 he has severe adhd and even with 50mg of aderoll twice a day is still very impulsive. He may disrupt class but he gets c and b's grades wise. So I would say no you can not do that because that would mean my child would get thrown out at 16 and not have any options for the rest of his life.

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LucyHarper
by on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:02 PM

No, that's ridiculous. They have the right to an education. Kicking them out because they are "problem students" doesn't do any favors for anyone, they will always be problem students who didn't get that education and they will go on to be problem adults and have their own problem kids who get kicked out, just like mom and dad. That's often one of the problems with today's society, instead of looking for a solution to help an issue, we just lock it away or kick it out or isolate them. We don't care to find out why the person is behaving that way and using that knowledge to help them and make them a better person. How exactly did another student make your daughter miss five questions on an astronomy test? I guarentee there is something the teacher could have done to make sure that didn't happen. The problem kids need an intervention and treatment plan, the way that you solve any problem, not to be denied an education. My husband was a "problem student", because his home life was a living hell, so yeah, he acted out a bit, no one bothered to look into that and instead just dismissed him as a problem child, and it wasn't until someone bothered to see what was going on and why he acted as he did that they could intervene and help him fix his issues, graduate at the top of his class, and become the wonderful man he is today. There are other solutions, intervention, discipline, and worse comes to worse, alternate education.

quickbooksworm
by Ruby Member on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:06 PM
But you never responded about emancipation or dropping out. If a kid is old enough to drop out on their own, they are old enough to be kicked out if they can't get their shit together. Alternative schools are a place they throw the losers together to keep their had influence away from the other students, and it costs a lot of money to do it, and that money is taken away from kids who want to do something with their lives. Students who go to alternative schools are future PA recipients, not the next Bill Gates. At middle school level, I'd support the idea. At 16, no.


Quoting audreesmama:

You can't join the military, get married, buy a car, get a full time job at 16, and those are adult decisions.



Like I said--alternative education centers. These children are our future.




Quoting quickbooksworm:

Of course they can make those decisions. At 16 you can be legally emancipated. In most states you do not have to have your parents to drop out. Schools either need to do something with the problem students one way or the other because it is stealing the education of the good students.






Quoting audreesmama:

At 16, you can't make most decisions for yourself because you are not 'adult' enough to do so. Why should a child be in charge if his or her own education at. 16?








Quoting quickbooksworm:

At 16-17, yes, kick them out. Its not fair to take instruction time away from students who care and want to be there. At 16, you either believe or not that education is important.




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ButterMeUp
by Butters on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:06 PM
That's what our crossroads center is. We also have career center for students who struggle education wise.

Quoting audreesmama:

That's not what I mean. We have schools for children with extensive discipline issues. It is a really awesome alternative for these kids. They aren't just passed through, though.




Quoting ButterMeUp:

 Yes, we have a "crossroads center". However the students there are often illiterate and are just passed though.



Quoting audreesmama:

Lol I know this. We have alternative schools do children who are in need of more strict discipline in order to learn. Those with tarnished records also go, so they can learn in a more strict environment. Do you have these schools?




Quoting ButterMeUp:



 I agree to a point, but how eactlly do you do that? Even teachers who care get worndown fromthe students who dont.




Quoting audreesmama:

I do not agree with giving up on young people who are future. We need to find a better way to motivate and engage.



 




 


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Retrokitty
by Jasmyne on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:07 PM
1 mom liked this
Why not work on another solution with the students? Where I live they could do online schooling. There is also a school for children with " behaviour problems" I'm not surei agree with it but they have awesome programs for troubled youth such as half days and work co-ops.
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ButterMeUp
by Butters on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:11 PM
She missed them because problem students braided her with insults because she needed extra time on their test.

How exactly do we go about changing their views on the importance of education.


Quoting LucyHarper:

No, that's ridiculous. They have the right to an education. Kicking them out because they are "problem students" doesn't do any favors for anyone, they will always be problem students who didn't get that education and they will go on to be problem adults and have their own problem kids who get kicked out, just like mom and dad. That's often one of the problems with today's society, instead of looking for a solution to help an issue, we just lock it away or kick it out or isolate them. We don't care to find out why the person is behaving that way and using that knowledge to help them and make them a better person. How exactly did another student make your daughter miss five questions on an astronomy test? I guarentee there is something the teacher could have done to make sure that didn't happen. The problem kids need an intervention and treatment plan, the way that you solve any problem, not to be denied an education. My husband was a "problem student", because his home life was a living hell, so yeah, he acted out a bit, no one bothered to look into that and instead just dismissed him as a problem child, and it wasn't until someone bothered to see what was going on and why he acted as he did that they could intervene and help him fix his issues, graduate at the top of his class, and become the wonderful man he is today. There are other solutions, intervention, discipline, and worse comes to worse, alternate education.

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Retrokitty
by Jasmyne on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:12 PM
Hehe this makes me laugh because my mom went to an aleternitive school and she has her masters in social work make 100k a year ;)

Why give up on youth? The aleternitive schools here help them find jobs and create basic life skills. If you are born into poverty you are already at a disadvantage. These kids need caring adults in their life because let's face it they probably don't have it at home.


Quoting quickbooksworm:

But you never responded about emancipation or dropping out. If a kid is old enough to drop out on their own, they are old enough to be kicked out if they can't get their shit together. Alternative schools are a place they throw the losers together to keep their had influence away from the other students, and it costs a lot of money to do it, and that money is taken away from kids who want to do something with their lives. Students who go to alternative schools are future PA recipients, not the next Bill Gates. At middle school level, I'd support the idea. At 16, no.




Quoting audreesmama:

You can't join the military, get married, buy a car, get a full time job at 16, and those are adult decisions.





Like I said--alternative education centers. These children are our future.






Quoting quickbooksworm:

Of course they can make those decisions. At 16 you can be legally emancipated. In most states you do not have to have your parents to drop out. Schools either need to do something with the problem students one way or the other because it is stealing the education of the good students.








Quoting audreesmama:

At 16, you can't make most decisions for yourself because you are not 'adult' enough to do so. Why should a child be in charge if his or her own education at. 16?










Quoting quickbooksworm:

At 16-17, yes, kick them out. Its not fair to take instruction time away from students who care and want to be there. At 16, you either believe or not that education is important.




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