Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

Mom Confessions Mom Confessions

Should problem students be automatically disenroled at the age of 16?

Posted by   + Show Post

Last night my entire family and I went out to dinner for FIL's BD. My SIL told us one of the topics her Current Issues and Events class. This dinner topic was a topic stemmed from something that had happened to her earlier in school Friday ( group of disruptive students caused her to miss 5 questions on her Astronomy quiz). Her teacher ask them if they thought students who are habitual failers simply because they don't care to try and/or troublemakers should be disenroled at 16. She said her class was split on the issue.

Some felt it was unfair to the students who would be disenroled and prey on the poor, which are usually the problem students. They also felt it would set them up for poverty because they would not be able to find work w/out a diploma. While others felt the rights of students who are not problems and/or don't try trump the rights of those students who are and the money "wasted" (65 hundred a school year) on them could go to new books and things that would help the behaved students and go towards programs geared students who are struggling. They also felt it was unfair to those students who are distracted by the toublemakers. You can obviously tell where my SIL fell on the issue lol

I think we all understand hat the problem is heavily caused by admins who often to not back up teachers, but is some this also caused by the students? What should we do with them? Should they be disenroled if they have proven disciplinary problems and/or are students who can not succeed due to their own lack of care? What should we do with them after they are taken out?

 

 

*If you read my post and there are mistakes in my spelling or grammar please note that I never learned either in school and I am currently learning them now. If you see a mistake POLITELY point it out and I'll be more than happy to correct my mistake. Here's a fun little siggy for your enjoyment. *

by on Mar. 10, 2013 at 12:36 PM
Replies (31-40):
Val99
by Ruby Member on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:14 PM
1 mom liked this

This is why those who are academically inferior or behavioral problems should be separated from the normal students.  The whole idea of mainstreaming those with lower than average IQs and behavioral issues has failed.  I wouldn't care if the behavioral problem children received training together, but why impact the good students' ability to learn?

Anonymous
by Anonymous 1 on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:14 PM
It's a state by state thing, the majority of states do allow a student to drop out before turning 18.

Quoting lazycervix:

You can not withdraw until 18 unless you have parental permission before then.

Quoting Anonymous:

I thought at 16 a kid would withdraw anyway?


ButterMeUp
by Butters on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:14 PM
We have a alternative cross roads center. It's filled with illiterate kids who are just passed through. Most of the problem students are poor and may not be able to affored intenet and no employer in ther right mind would hire students with behavior problems

Quoting Retrokitty:

Why not work on another solution with the students? Where I live they could do online schooling. There is also a school for children with " behaviour problems" I'm not surei agree with it but they have awesome programs for troubled youth such as half days and work co-ops.
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
quickbooksworm
by Ruby Member on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:15 PM
1 mom liked this
As the parent of a well behaved child, I agree. My son began having trouble in school this year because he was put in the back of the room (because he can be trusted) and there are certain "ADHD" students who constantly disrupt the class. If the kid can't behave, get them out so everyone else can learn. Catering to the weak links does nothing to make our education better compared to the rest of the world.


Quoting ButterMeUp:

Think beyond your son for a second. Is it fair to the rest of his class to have him disrupt them just so he can barely slide by? Do you think he would be better suited at a school ment to handle his needs?



Quoting lazycervix:

My son is 13 he has severe adhd and even with 50mg of aderoll twice a day is still very impulsive. He may disrupt class but he gets c and b's grades wise. So I would say no you can not do that because that would mean my child would get thrown out at 16 and not have any options for the rest of his life.


Posted on CafeMom Mobile
LucyHarper
by on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:16 PM

Talking should not be allowed during test taking time, if they were insulting her while she was taking the test, the teacher should have told them to go finish their test in the hallway and then to go to the principals office to be reprimanded. The teacher could have prevented that. You can start by actually finding out why they don't care and working on ways to make them care.

Quoting ButterMeUp:

She missed them because problem students braided her with insults because she needed extra time on their test.

How exactly do we go about changing their views on the importance of education.


Quoting LucyHarper:

No, that's ridiculous. They have the right to an education. Kicking them out because they are "problem students" doesn't do any favors for anyone, they will always be problem students who didn't get that education and they will go on to be problem adults and have their own problem kids who get kicked out, just like mom and dad. That's often one of the problems with today's society, instead of looking for a solution to help an issue, we just lock it away or kick it out or isolate them. We don't care to find out why the person is behaving that way and using that knowledge to help them and make them a better person. How exactly did another student make your daughter miss five questions on an astronomy test? I guarentee there is something the teacher could have done to make sure that didn't happen. The problem kids need an intervention and treatment plan, the way that you solve any problem, not to be denied an education. My husband was a "problem student", because his home life was a living hell, so yeah, he acted out a bit, no one bothered to look into that and instead just dismissed him as a problem child, and it wasn't until someone bothered to see what was going on and why he acted as he did that they could intervene and help him fix his issues, graduate at the top of his class, and become the wonderful man he is today. There are other solutions, intervention, discipline, and worse comes to worse, alternate education.



Retrokitty
by Jasmyne on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:17 PM
See its totally different here but we really work on youth rehabilitation not incarceration here and what do you know we have the lowest crime rate in the whole country.

Quoting ButterMeUp:

We have a alternative cross roads center. It's filled with illiterate kids who are just passed through. Most of the problem students are poor and may not be able to affored intenet and no employer in ther right mind would hire students with behavior problems



Quoting Retrokitty:

Why not work on another solution with the students? Where I live they could do online schooling. There is also a school for children with " behaviour problems" I'm not surei agree with it but they have awesome programs for troubled youth such as half days and work co-ops.
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
Pnukey
by on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:18 PM

We actually talk about this in the teachers' lounge at the middle school where I teach. Personally, I think those problem students should have to enroll in the online option available. This way, they still get their education and their parents have to deal with their crappy behavior, especially since they're usually the ones who cause the crappy behavior. Now, this is after they have tried behavior plans and alternative education. There are programs for low cost Internet, or they can go to the library. They all seem to have Smart phones and/or tablets and laptops already anyway, so they can consider it just another school expense.

Anonymous
by Anonymous 2 on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:19 PM
Our school had an alternative school for the regulars of OSS/iss. It helped a lot. But most of us that were in specialty classes (anatomy and physiology, botany, etc) didn't have that problem because you had to earn the right to be in those classes with you grades and GPA. For the simpler classes it was a huge distraction, but most of those kids ended up either at the alternative school or dropping out altogether.
quickbooksworm
by Ruby Member on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:24 PM
I worked for a company and we had a couple girls sent over from the alternative school once. They were rude to clients, couldn't use a computer, and had no interest in learning. Not to mention they had no work ethic and refused to be taught. I told the program director to call McDonalds next time.

Good for your mom, but she is the exception, not the rule. I know a couple girls who went to alternative school after they got pregnant and they are doing OK but not great. They have jobs but always feel like they need to be with a man for the financial security.


Quoting Retrokitty:

Hehe this makes me laugh because my mom went to an aleternitive school and she has her masters in social work make 100k a year ;)



Why give up on youth? The aleternitive schools here help them find jobs and create basic life skills. If you are born into poverty you are already at a disadvantage. These kids need caring adults in their life because let's face it they probably don't have it at home.




Quoting quickbooksworm:

But you never responded about emancipation or dropping out. If a kid is old enough to drop out on their own, they are old enough to be kicked out if they can't get their shit together. Alternative schools are a place they throw the losers together to keep their had influence away from the other students, and it costs a lot of money to do it, and that money is taken away from kids who want to do something with their lives. Students who go to alternative schools are future PA recipients, not the next Bill Gates. At middle school level, I'd support the idea. At 16, no.






Quoting audreesmama:

You can't join the military, get married, buy a car, get a full time job at 16, and those are adult decisions.







Like I said--alternative education centers. These children are our future.








Quoting quickbooksworm:

Of course they can make those decisions. At 16 you can be legally emancipated. In most states you do not have to have your parents to drop out. Schools either need to do something with the problem students one way or the other because it is stealing the education of the good students.










Quoting audreesmama:

At 16, you can't make most decisions for yourself because you are not 'adult' enough to do so. Why should a child be in charge if his or her own education at. 16?












Quoting quickbooksworm:

At 16-17, yes, kick them out. Its not fair to take instruction time away from students who care and want to be there. At 16, you either believe or not that education is important.





Posted on CafeMom Mobile
moosesmom
by Ruby Member on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:24 PM
Is this the same SIL that didn't want to dress out for gym class? How did that work out? Did you guys have a chance to talk to the teacher?

As for your question in the OP I say send those kids to alternative school. I don't think they should be given up on at 16.
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
Add your quick reply below:
You must be a member to reply to this post.
Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)