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Should problem students be automatically disenroled at the age of 16?

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Last night my entire family and I went out to dinner for FIL's BD. My SIL told us one of the topics her Current Issues and Events class. This dinner topic was a topic stemmed from something that had happened to her earlier in school Friday ( group of disruptive students caused her to miss 5 questions on her Astronomy quiz). Her teacher ask them if they thought students who are habitual failers simply because they don't care to try and/or troublemakers should be disenroled at 16. She said her class was split on the issue.

Some felt it was unfair to the students who would be disenroled and prey on the poor, which are usually the problem students. They also felt it would set them up for poverty because they would not be able to find work w/out a diploma. While others felt the rights of students who are not problems and/or don't try trump the rights of those students who are and the money "wasted" (65 hundred a school year) on them could go to new books and things that would help the behaved students and go towards programs geared students who are struggling. They also felt it was unfair to those students who are distracted by the toublemakers. You can obviously tell where my SIL fell on the issue lol

I think we all understand hat the problem is heavily caused by admins who often to not back up teachers, but is some this also caused by the students? What should we do with them? Should they be disenroled if they have proven disciplinary problems and/or are students who can not succeed due to their own lack of care? What should we do with them after they are taken out?

 

 

*If you read my post and there are mistakes in my spelling or grammar please note that I never learned either in school and I am currently learning them now. If you see a mistake POLITELY point it out and I'll be more than happy to correct my mistake. Here's a fun little siggy for your enjoyment. *

by on Mar. 10, 2013 at 12:36 PM
Replies (41-50):
anotherhalf
by on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:26 PM

I think the behavioral problem children should be sent to a separate class or a separate school.  My ds's old school would divy out the problem children equally so all classes had at least one disruptive student.  I pulled my son from that school because these kids took away so much teacher time that it was disgusting.  And this was elementary school.  I don't think that the students that care should be forced to be in a situation where they can't excel because one/two children can't get it together and keep distracting the class.




AubreeGrace17
by Platinum Member on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:30 PM

 I think that in some ways this is a good idea. However, it is not fair to that child. I can also speak from experience when I say that it is frustrating when several "problem" students disrupt the learning process. I'm really on the fence about this.

ButterMeUp
by Butters on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:32 PM
That's a never ending cycle. They are told to stop, ignore, get sent to the principles office, get sent back to class, get sent back up with a write up, got ISS and repeat.



Quoting LucyHarper:

Talking should not be allowed during test taking time, if they were insulting her while she was taking the test, the teacher should have told them to go finish their test in the hallway and then to go to the principals office to be reprimanded. The teacher could have prevented that. You can start by actually finding out why they don't care and working on ways to make them care.


Quoting ButterMeUp:

She missed them because problem students braided her with insults because she needed extra time on their test.



How exactly do we go about changing their views on the importance of education.




Quoting LucyHarper:

No, that's ridiculous. They have the right to an education. Kicking them out because they are "problem students" doesn't do any favors for anyone, they will always be problem students who didn't get that education and they will go on to be problem adults and have their own problem kids who get kicked out, just like mom and dad. That's often one of the problems with today's society, instead of looking for a solution to help an issue, we just lock it away or kick it out or isolate them. We don't care to find out why the person is behaving that way and using that knowledge to help them and make them a better person. How exactly did another student make your daughter miss five questions on an astronomy test? I guarentee there is something the teacher could have done to make sure that didn't happen. The problem kids need an intervention and treatment plan, the way that you solve any problem, not to be denied an education. My husband was a "problem student", because his home life was a living hell, so yeah, he acted out a bit, no one bothered to look into that and instead just dismissed him as a problem child, and it wasn't until someone bothered to see what was going on and why he acted as he did that they could intervene and help him fix his issues, graduate at the top of his class, and become the wonderful man he is today. There are other solutions, intervention, discipline, and worse comes to worse, alternate education.




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LucyHarper
by on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:35 PM

They weren't sent to the principals in this situation if they continually bothered her during the test. And with all of the punishment, have they bothered to find out why the kids act that way, or do they just write them up and send them on their way. Mandated school theraphy for problem kids would be a better solution than kicking them out at 16.

Quoting ButterMeUp:

That's a never ending cycle. They are told to stop, ignore, get sent to the principles office, get sent back to class, get sent back up with a write up, got ISS and repeat.



Quoting LucyHarper:

Talking should not be allowed during test taking time, if they were insulting her while she was taking the test, the teacher should have told them to go finish their test in the hallway and then to go to the principals office to be reprimanded. The teacher could have prevented that. You can start by actually finding out why they don't care and working on ways to make them care.


Quoting ButterMeUp:

She missed them because problem students braided her with insults because she needed extra time on their test.



How exactly do we go about changing their views on the importance of education.




Quoting LucyHarper:

No, that's ridiculous. They have the right to an education. Kicking them out because they are "problem students" doesn't do any favors for anyone, they will always be problem students who didn't get that education and they will go on to be problem adults and have their own problem kids who get kicked out, just like mom and dad. That's often one of the problems with today's society, instead of looking for a solution to help an issue, we just lock it away or kick it out or isolate them. We don't care to find out why the person is behaving that way and using that knowledge to help them and make them a better person. How exactly did another student make your daughter miss five questions on an astronomy test? I guarentee there is something the teacher could have done to make sure that didn't happen. The problem kids need an intervention and treatment plan, the way that you solve any problem, not to be denied an education. My husband was a "problem student", because his home life was a living hell, so yeah, he acted out a bit, no one bothered to look into that and instead just dismissed him as a problem child, and it wasn't until someone bothered to see what was going on and why he acted as he did that they could intervene and help him fix his issues, graduate at the top of his class, and become the wonderful man he is today. There are other solutions, intervention, discipline, and worse comes to worse, alternate education.






xtwistedxlovex
by Platinum Member on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:39 PM
It wasn't meant as a punishment. The name of the place actually was "Alternative Learning Center" and it was intended for students that, for whatever reason, could not handle a mainstream high school setting. For many it was a matter of school/class sizes as the ALCs were much smaller. There were 2 or 3 ALCs, one of which had a program called PACE that allowed students to work at their own rate - for as many hours of the school day as they chose, so a student who would be inclined to completely drop so they could work to support their family might instead choose to stay in school part-time. Students who struggled were generally kept in mainstream, in SP.ED classes designed to help them learn more efficiently. I thought it was a pretty good set-up overall, designed to work for students with varying issues that might cause them to fail in a normal high school setting and with the added benefit of allowing the mainstream teachers to run their classrooms more efficiently.

Quoting ButterMeUp:

I think I misunderstood your first reply. I thought you ment alternative learning centers, not schools meant to punish. We have one of both. One is for students who struggle in school and the other is for problem students.



Quoting xtwistedxlovex:

Ours were mostly for the problem students. I chose to transfer to one not realizing that and it was a bit of a shock. One kid even bragged to me that he'd been expelled from his mainstream school for sexually harrassing 4 girls :-/

Quoting ButterMeUp:

 We have one here, however you cannot attend if you are a discipline problem at your current school.



Quoting xtwistedxlovex:



Isn't that what Alternative Learning Centers are for?



 


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ButterMeUp
by Butters on Mar. 10, 2013 at 1:46 PM
1 mom liked this
It worked out well. She got her extra 5 minutes. Her therapist wrote her a "doctor excuse" explaining her consortiums and the need for privacy while changing. MIL thought she was going to end up getting a 504, but it never came to that. She and one of the female VP sat down and she was much more understanding that the coach. She's now allowed 5 extra minutes but normally just needs a couple of those. She's doing much better now. She's got a 53 and climbing.

Quoting moosesmom:

Is this the same SIL that didn't want to dress out for gym class? How did that work out? Did you guys have a chance to talk to the teacher?



As for your question in the OP I say send those kids to alternative school. I don't think they should be given up on at 16.
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Lalalie
by Gold Member on Mar. 10, 2013 at 2:31 PM

This is horrifying.

even if students do not 'value' their education, they will later on... or some will, and it is worth it. I disagree with unenrolling them.

They aren't lost causes unless you make them out to be. I honestly think they need more direction, more guidance. Sure, some WILL fail, that is just the sad truth... but there are situations where it can be helped, and in most cases unenrolling them at 16 would kill a lot of chances at a better life for them.

lazycervix
by Member on Mar. 11, 2013 at 12:30 AM

We live in a town of 3000 people there are no other options

Quoting ButterMeUp:

Think beyond your son for a second. Is it fair to the rest of his class to have him disrupt them just so he can barely slide by? Do you think he would be better suited at a school ment to handle his needs?

Quoting lazycervix:

My son is 13 he has severe adhd and even with 50mg of aderoll twice a day is still very impulsive. He may disrupt class but he gets c and b's grades wise. So I would say no you can not do that because that would mean my child would get thrown out at 16 and not have any options for the rest of his life.


lazycervix
by Member on Mar. 11, 2013 at 12:33 AM

We live in a town of 3000 people there are no alternative schools. So I should just take my 12 year old out of school now and make sure he becomes a person that mooches off the state the rest of his life so that your A student can have a 100% positive experience in school then shit on my kid and call him names for mooching off the state. That is great.

Quoting quickbooksworm:

As the parent of a well behaved child, I agree. My son began having trouble in school this year because he was put in the back of the room (because he can be trusted) and there are certain "ADHD" students who constantly disrupt the class. If the kid can't behave, get them out so everyone else can learn. Catering to the weak links does nothing to make our education better compared to the rest of the world.


Quoting ButterMeUp:

Think beyond your son for a second. Is it fair to the rest of his class to have him disrupt them just so he can barely slide by? Do you think he would be better suited at a school ment to handle his needs?



Quoting lazycervix:

My son is 13 he has severe adhd and even with 50mg of aderoll twice a day is still very impulsive. He may disrupt class but he gets c and b's grades wise. So I would say no you can not do that because that would mean my child would get thrown out at 16 and not have any options for the rest of his life.



quickbooksworm
by Ruby Member on Mar. 11, 2013 at 12:57 AM
1 mom liked this

I don't think alternative schools are a good option for kids with disorders.  Alternative schools are generally full of losers, who are people who don't have disorders but have no motivation or drive to do anything with their lives, and who are a bad impression on impressionable kids.

I'm not saying your child isn't entitled to an education.  I'm saying that so is mine.  And if your kid can't behave himself and becomes such a problem that my child's grades begin to suffer, you're damn straight I will insist on HIS removal from the classroom.  And frankly, that would be between you and the school to work out, but impeding the education of children who can behave themselves and get good grades is unacceptable.  


Quoting lazycervix:

We live in a town of 3000 people there are no alternative schools. So I should just take my 12 year old out of school now and make sure he becomes a person that mooches off the state the rest of his life so that your A student can have a 100% positive experience in school then shit on my kid and call him names for mooching off the state. That is great.

Quoting quickbooksworm:

As the parent of a well behaved child, I agree. My son began having trouble in school this year because he was put in the back of the room (because he can be trusted) and there are certain "ADHD" students who constantly disrupt the class. If the kid can't behave, get them out so everyone else can learn. Catering to the weak links does nothing to make our education better compared to the rest of the world.


Quoting ButterMeUp:

Think beyond your son for a second. Is it fair to the rest of his class to have him disrupt them just so he can barely slide by? Do you think he would be better suited at a school ment to handle his needs?



Quoting lazycervix:

My son is 13 he has severe adhd and even with 50mg of aderoll twice a day is still very impulsive. He may disrupt class but he gets c and b's grades wise. So I would say no you can not do that because that would mean my child would get thrown out at 16 and not have any options for the rest of his life.





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